Best sharpening system.

[catspa]

I’m just in need of a new stone so was wondering if it was time to change things up or if I should stick with what I know.

I think of my grandpa, who taught me to freehand sharpen when I was 6 on his big old bench stone. He had to build me a wooden box to stand on so I could reach it.

That stone was dished out at least half an inch, and he sharpened knives for the whole neighborhood on it. He lived to be 92, and I doubt he ever needed a new stone.

What I wouldn’t give to have that stone now, and the memories. If I were in your shoes, I’d stick with the tried and true.

Parker

 

[chalby]

...If you get water stones, be prepared to use a sink bridge, setup, clean up, and flatten your stones every few times you use them. Which means you need a flattening "stone" also.....

Stones like the Shapton Pro and Naniwa Gouken Arata come with a protective case that doubles as a stone holder. They are also very hard splash and go stones that rarely need flattening(you would still eventually need to flatten a Norton stone as well, no?) and produce very little mess, so things like a sink bridge, separate stone holder and flattening stones are very optional. Granted, that's all highly dependent on the stones you use; some are messier and require more time for soaking etc.

I do use a stone holder because it's more convenient for other stones and I just have a cup or small bowl of water that I dip my fingers into and rub onto the stones. After you are done sharpening, two seconds with a paper towel and cleanup is done.

I realize everyone will have their own opinion and preferences though.

 

[Grasshopperglock]

There's so much involved, it gets personal.

 

[Khromo]

I've got the high end Wicked Edge system, and I have gotten outstanding results from it. Spooky good BESS scores and elegant, flat, shiny bevels.

But after some serious practice on the bench stones, I can get results in the same ballpark, freehand, in half or maybe 3/4's of the time it takes to set up and operate the guided system. Maybe not the same ballpark, but at least in the same zip code. I still put my "show-off" knives on the Wicked Edge, but the sharpness I can get by hand is very close to the guided system. The appearance is not as close, but without a loupe, a well practised freehand sharpener can get a fully functional hair-popping receipt-paper-cutting edge that looks very fine.

If you are going to own one stone or one type of stone, the easy answer is to buy an 8" x 3" diamond plate or two. The high carbide steels are becoming more common, even creeping into kitchen cutlery and woodworking tools, and sharpening them with natural stones is a bad idea, while waterstones are a mess, and a lot slower than diamond plates. Unless you plan to be very careful about any new tools you might acquire, diamond plates are a safe bet.

I love to break out the Arkansas stones to sharpen some steel, but if I had to choose I would get a 600 and a 1.2K or so diamond plate, BREAK THEM IN!!!, and then sharpen anything in sight.

 

[chalby]

K Khromo

I take it you use diamond plates dry? I usually use water with a little dish soap on mine, so for me they are no more or less messy than water stones. That way they are much easier to keep from clogging with swarf and to clean IME.

I much prefer the finish from water stones to plates although yes for high carbide steels they are quick and easy.

 

[Khromo]

K Khromo

I take it you use diamond plates dry?...

I use diluted Krud Kutter on diamond plates, even the ones with channels for the swarf, like the Atomas. No clogging at all, and they clean up instantly because all you need to do is rinse off the soap. It takes longer to wash my hands than to clean the stone.

The plates don't leave a shiny finish for me, even the 2.2K and 3K stones, but stropping with diamond compounds on balsa or leather gets a mirror finish very quickly if that is what you are after! A fine diamond stone and a 5 micron diamond strop produces a sharp apex and a handsome bevel!

I had an epiphany one day when I was trying to sharpen D2 on a very good hard Arkansas stone. This big black crow flew over and landed on the bench, and he said "That right there is the wrong tool for the job, boss." Talking bird, who would have thunk it?!?!

But the bird had a point. By the time I got a sharp apex on that blade it would have been convex as heck due to the number of strokes it would take. Freehanding requires that I keep the number of strokes as low as possible, and in the hard steels that means diamonds or CBN, for me.

 

[chalby]

K Khromo

OK, sounds similar to how I use them. I just thought when you said "water stones were a mess" you might have done it differently.

Just a video I saw that shows what I mean by some of the stones I've recommended in this thread being not very messy(not aimed at anyone in particular):

 

[bgentry]

K Khromo

OK, sounds similar to how I use them. I just thought when you said "water stones were a mess" you might have done it differently.

You're thinking of me probably, as I said that I did not recommend waterstones and that they need a place where you can "splash and drip" water.

I'm aware of Shapton Pro. I find them to be quite confusing, as I don't really consider them to be water stones. Yes, they are called water stones. Yes, they sharpen and you put water on them. But they are essentially non-friable. As far as I'm concerned, the definition of a waterstone involves friability. For me, Sharpton Pros are another type of ceramic stone. They are actually quite interesting. They are just far too expensive for me. I have spent a rather large amount of money on stones and systems over the years. I'm willing to spend the money when I think it makes a difference. But the Shaptons remind me of the higher end BMWs. They are wonderful. They are undeniably high quality and high performers. But for me, the price to performance ratio is not there.

I've also gotten extra lazy and I mostly want results quickly. I'm not sure I've used a manual system, other than the Sharpmaker, in several years now. It's all belt sander and sharp maker now for me.

In fairness, my belt sander is insanely messy and large compared to most sharpening systems or stones. It is semi-permanently installed in my garage. I could just as easily have a dedicated waterstone sharpening area. Though I'd really need a sink (which I don't have there) for any normal waterstones. Come to think of it, I haven't soaked or used my Nubatamas in several years. I should put them up for sale or trade in one of the forums here. They were kind of expensive and it's a shame they get no use.

Ultimately I'm super happy for you if you get the results you want from waterstones. They aren't for me (though I've gotten quite good results on mine). I get the results I want from my belt sander and can do a pretty precise job if I pay attention. I was pretty happy with the edge I put on my PM2 a while back using the sander and the KallyRest.

Take care,
Brian.

 

[chalby]

You're thinking of me probably, as I said that I did not recommend waterstones and that they need a place where you can "splash and drip" water.

I'm aware of Shapton Pro. I find them to be quite confusing, as I don't really consider them to be water stones. Yes, they are called water stones. Yes, they sharpen and you put water on them. But they are essentially non-friable. As far as I'm concerned, the definition of a waterstone involves friability. For me, Sharpton Pros are another type of ceramic stone. They are actually quite interesting. They are just far too expensive for me. I have spent a rather large amount of money on stones and systems over the years. I'm willing to spend the money when I think it makes a difference. But the Shaptons remind me of the higher end BMWs. They are wonderful. They are undeniably high quality and high performers. But for me, the price to performance ratio is not there.

I've also gotten extra lazy and I mostly want results quickly. I'm not sure I've used a manual system, other than the Sharpmaker, in several years now. It's all belt sander and sharp maker now for me.

In fairness, my belt sander is insanely messy and large compared to most sharpening systems or stones. It is semi-permanently installed in my garage. I could just as easily have a dedicated waterstone sharpening area. Though I'd really need a sink (which I don't have there) for any normal waterstones. Come to think of it, I haven't soaked or used my Nubatamas in several years. I should put them up for sale or trade in one of the forums here. They were kind of expensive and it's a shame they get no use.

Ultimately I'm super happy for you if you get the results you want from waterstones. They aren't for me (though I've gotten quite good results on mine). I get the results I want from my belt sander and can do a pretty precise job if I pay attention. I was pretty happy with the edge I put on my PM2 a while back using the sander and the KallyRest.

Take care,
Brian.

There are basically two "families" of synthetic waterstones for want of a better term. Soakers and splash and go. Essentially you are referring to soaking stones and yes they are a little(or sometimes a lot) more messy and time consuming to use. Splash and go stones are 100% waterstones though regardless how you personally define them. Soaking stones are another type of ceramic stone as well by the way. They just use a different binder.

At the end of the day, sharpening is a thing that can be done in countless different ways and we all have our preferences. It would be boring if everyone used the same gear. I would say that anyone interested should read about all the different systems people use and choose something that appeals to you.

 

[Papilio]

I don't think that it is possible to name "the best sharpening system". The sharpening world offers so many options. Some prefer soaking stones, some splash and go stones. Oldtimers might like oilstones and Arkansas stones. For modern steels more and more often diamond stones seem to be the way to go. Not to forget vitrified ceramics like the popular Spyderco Sharpmaker. Good sets for beginners might be Tri-Hones / Tri-Stones like Norton, Smith's, Lansky and others offer. Or guided systems, from WorkSharp, Lansky, Wicked Edge, Edge Pro and many more.

Sometimes even sentimental reasons might tip the balance, like wonderful memories from your childhood (like post #21 by catspa).

For me it is that everybody has to find his way. Although I like waterstones because of their "tactile feel / feedback", I don't like the mess. They are more an option during summer when I am able to sharpen outside. As they are not all-year-round-stones I don't use them anymore.
If I could start from scratch I think I would opt for a coarse diamond plate and some hard splash and go stones like Shapton Pro / Ha-Nu Kuromaku (freehand) or the Spyderco Shaprmaker.

 

[Khromo]

Don't laugh. Don't you dare laugh, because this is sharpening gold. Sharpening gold, baby!

I have taken total newbies from knowing nothing about sharpening to popping hair and push cutting receipt paper in under an hour using this technique. Uncoordinated people, housewives, people who don't know how to read, anyone can use this rig effectively. And because they learn and get the positive feedback so quickly, this method works well for folks with short attention spans. They can actually learn and retain the skill before they become distracted! Whoa! This is world-shaking **** going on over here! We are shaking up the world!

All you have to do is keep the blade parallel to the bench top as you execute a typical sharpening stroke. This is a sideways version of the Sharpmaker/crockstick arrangement, with the improvement of simple adjustment to any angle. The user has to learn the proper range of pressure to use, but that only takes a few minutes. (A simple kitchen scale helps them figure out how to dial in about 5 pounds.) Some of the advantages:

It is as accurate as your hand is steady. You can maintain a consistent angle very naturally.

Cheap as dirt. The $30 angle block is only necessary if you want to get fancy. You can actually maintain the same angle over the years by using the same block or book and measuring the distance from the block to where the stone sits on the bench. Not especially precise, but good enough to blow away most factory edges.

It allows you to use any kind of bench stone you wish.

You can use any book that suits you. Doesn't even need to be a book, it just needs to be stable and higher than the bench top.

It maintains a consistent angle all the way from heel to tip. All the way to the tip! That is something my $1,000+ Wicked Edge gear doesn't want to do.

You can perform stropping stages this way as well. Maybe reduce the angle by a few tenths of a degree.

Anyone who is not drunk can be push cutting receipt paper in an hour. An hour. Seriously. I wouldn't lie about something like this. I would possibly lie about some other things, but not about something as stupid as this!

 

[Another Shepherd]

Don't laugh. Don't you dare laugh, because this is sharpening gold. Sharpening gold, baby!

Let's hope the mods don't figure out what the book is. And how on earth am I supposed to not LOL?

 

[Papilio]

It is easy to buy sth. fancy (as long as you have the money). But masterclass shows using a simple method and achive great results.
Is this a Soft Arkansas? This wonderful marble look?
I think this method works best with a thicker stone. If the stone is thin, you could touch the tabletop with thicker handles.

 

[bgentry]

Like many people, I have sometimes made more of sharpening than it is. I've tried to simplify things a bit as I've learned more. We can over analyze so many aspects of sharpening if we allow ourselves to. The basics aren't all that complex and you don't need anything all that sophisticated to get a sharp edge. My Seven Secrets article is probably more than needs to be said. I tried to pass along a lot of things that I learned along the way. All 7 are important in my mind.

When I first saw Paul Sellers sharpening a knife with a block of wood and some tiny sandpaper covered sticks, I was conflicted. On one hand I thought his technique was probably sound. On the other, I was irritated that it was so simple and that it didn't require very much physical control or skill. Years later I recognize that it's quite brilliant, much like the stone on book pictured above.

Take a look at Paul's technique and see what you think.

Brian.

 

[chalby]

Like many people, I have sometimes made more of sharpening than it is. I've tried to simplify things a bit as I've learned more. We can over analyze so many aspects of sharpening if we allow ourselves to. The basics aren't all that complex and you don't need anything all that sophisticated to get a sharp edge. My Seven Secrets article is probably more than needs to be said. I tried to pass along a lot of things that I learned along the way. All 7 are important in my mind.

When I first saw Paul Sellers sharpening a knife with a block of wood and some tiny sandpaper covered sticks, I was conflicted. On one hand I thought his technique was probably sound. On the other, I was irritated that it was so simple and that it didn't require very much physical control or skill. Years later I recognize that it's quite brilliant, much like the stone on book pictured above.

Take a look at Paul's technique and see what you think.

Brian.

Whatever works is what I say. It annoys me sometimes when someone will say "this" is the way you have to do it, or "that" way is superior to all others. There are many ways of sharpening an edge if you stick to the fundamentals.

That video is an good example of someone who wanted to find a way to sharpen while eliminating as many of the variables as possible. I can imagine all the people in the past who helped design the great guided systems that we have available today, started with the same ideas and questions that produced this simple little system. Of course there will always be pros and cons to any system but if it works it works.

 

[cudgee]

Don't laugh. Don't you dare laugh, because this is sharpening gold.

I didn't laugh, always love new ideas. Just tried this method on an old beater pocket knife and a small stone. Worked out the angle i had already reprofiled the bevel at and started sharpening. Sharp As, and you really can't stuff it up. Well done. A newbie could buy a 2 grit stone and start to learn how to sharpen without a huge outlay. A good consistent cheap sharpening system.

 

[TheOne45]

I always thought you can't put a proper edge on the knife without Grid-Viva system.
Now I know I was wrong. Excelent idea. Just excelent. Kudos to you.
I'm on my way to try it.... I just need to find a proper book for my folding pocket sharpener.

 

[Khromo]

A neighbor rigged up a jig with a sliding block to support the high end of the stone, so he can adjust the angle wherever he wants. More stable and precise than using a book! He sometimes sets a small angle block on the blade as he works to keep his alignment square. I will shoot a picture the next time I visit. He used a piece of the aluminum track that woodworkers use in their bench tops, so the lockup is secure and adjustment is very easy. It cost less than $20. Seal it with some Varathane and that little sucker will return some very impressive results!

Diamond plates at 600 and 1,200, and a strop loaded with 5 micron diamond compound and you can sharpen anything fast, at any angle, and get a shiny finish.

Let's hope the mods don't figure out what the book is. And how on earth am I supposed to not LOL?

The book was kind of included for comic relief! As a serious student of abnormal behavior I had to at least be aware of it, but that is one sad waste of paper. I guess that's what happens when you lock a madman in a room with all the paper and ink he needs. Rambling, unreadable after a page or two, what a POS!!!

 

[Apalachicola]

I admit, I’ve had some weird sharpening moments with KME. If you’re a novice sharpener like me, you can profile a tip by accident. My non-experienced hand makes a wider sharpened area at the tip than the base.

No probs, I’m going to a family birthday party tomorrow, and will offer to sharpen all their knives, so more practice.

 

[Landshark99]

I use a TSProf for small knives and freehand stones for the kitchen knives, all depends on what you want and need