Best stone for S35VN

What do you mean with terrible? Too coarse? Do you use alternate strokes at the end? Can you hold your angle?
 
To get best results with steels like S35vn that have higher carbides/vanadium content: diamonds. Other stuff like CBN can work, and silicon carbide can work (I've used both). I consistently get the best results with diamonds, no question.

Grits: for basic sharpening to get something really sharp, you should be able to do everything you need with a 2-grit diamond stone, say something in 300/1200 (DMT duosharp, and Ultrasharp, both have 2-grit products of this type, as do cheap brands like DMD). You need something coarse to set bevels, and something at the higher grit to refine and finish your edge. Add a strop with some compound, you've got everything you need to get great results.

In my working with diamonds and these steels, I don't remember a single time where the issue was ever with the diamond plate/abrasive when I couldn't get the sharpness I wanted. It was always with my technique: not holding a consistent angle, not eliminating the burr, not refining the apex properly on the higher grit stone, etc. My theory is that it's about 90% technique, and about 10% the stone you use. I think a person could even buy a relatively cheap no-name diamond stone, and still get pretty good results, if your technique is solid. @HeavyHanded has a current thread in the maintenance forum where he evaluated low, medium, and higher priced diamond abrasives, and he got surprisingly good results even with the inexpensive diamond plates.
 
maximus83 said:
To get best results with steels like S35vn that have higher carbides/vanadium content: diamonds. Other stuff like CBN can work, and silicon carbide can work (I've used both). I consistently get the best results with diamonds, no question.

Grits: for basic sharpening to get something really sharp, you should be able to do everything you need with a 2-grit diamond stone, say something in 300/1200 (DMT duosharp, and Ultrasharp, both have 2-grit products of this type, as do cheap brands like DMD). You need something coarse to set bevels, and something at the higher grit to refine and finish your edge. Add a strop with some compound, you've got everything you need to get great results.

In my working with diamonds and these steels, I don't remember a single time where the issue was ever with the diamond plate/abrasive when I couldn't get the sharpness I wanted. It was always with my technique: not holding a consistent angle, not eliminating the burr, not refining the apex properly on the higher grit stone, etc. My theory is that it's about 90% technique, and about 10% the stone you use. I think a person could even buy a relatively cheap no-name diamond stone, and still get pretty good results, if your technique is solid. @HeavyHanded has a current thread in the maintenance forum where he evaluated low, medium, and higher priced diamond abrasives, and he got surprisingly good results even with the inexpensive diamond plates.
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Honestly with the 320 grit coarse dmt stone I can never get a sharp edge. It feels like the steel is skipping off the peaks of the grit particles. I need to try a finer DMT stone.

It seems to me right now that if I were to take my knife with a decent edge (edge is in condition where it's ready for a touch up) and do a few strokes on the dmt coarse, say 5 on each side, the edge is immediately chewed up into a jagged mess.
 
Lapedog said:
Honestly with the 320 grit coarse dmt stone I can never get a sharp edge. It feels like the steel is skipping off the peaks of the grit particles. I need to try a finer DMT stone.

It seems to me right now that if I were to take my knife with a decent edge (edge is in condition where it's ready for a touch up) and do a few strokes on the dmt coarse, say 5 on each side, the edge is immediately chewed up into a jagged mess.
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Yep I hear you guys. But trust me, you can get a good utility edge with s30/s35 that will cleanly slice magazine/catalog/newsprint paper and shave arm hair (with some friction) off a DMT coarse 320 stone, and will leave a nice coarse toothy edge that's good enough for EDU knife tasks. If I can learn it, you can too. I have done that recently with 3 different blades at home: a benchmade folder, a fixed blade, and a Buck folder, all in s30v. The keys were these things: profiling the edge first to get a clean consistent edge bevel, then using super light strokes to reduce burr and finish. That last step involving super light strokes to finish was a key change in my sharpening process a while back that made me realize how much you can really get done with just a coarse stone by itself, just by varying pressure and how you use the stone. Some of the professional and experienced amateur sharpeners here at BF can do pretty amazing stuff with just a single coarse stone and a strop. But you don't have to be a sharpening pro (I'm definitely not--still practicing and horking up my practice blades on a regular basis :cool:) to learn and be able to get pretty darn good sharpness on your knives. But for best results that go beyond a utility edge with steels like S30/S35, IMO you still want something in that "EF" grit, something around 1K to 1200 in diamonds. I just posted similar in the Maintenance forum last night, I have an M390 Kershaw blade I was getting pretty good results with using silicon carbide stones plus strop, but when I switched to all diamonds and finished with the DMT EF, it got noticeably sharper. You can get really good results and more than adequate utility edges with just a coarse stone, for sure. But most of us knife knuts are gonna want better :D, and a higher grit makes it that much easier to get there assuming that the basic technique is solid.
 
maximus83 said:
Yep I hear you guys. But trust me, you can get a good utility edge with s30/s35 that will cleanly slice magazine/catalog/newsprint paper and shave arm hair (with some friction) off a DMT coarse 320 stone, and will leave a nice coarse toothy edge that's good enough for EDU knife tasks. If I can learn it, you can too. I have done that recently with 3 different blades at home: a benchmade folder, a fixed blade, and a Buck folder, all in s30v. The keys were these things: profiling the edge first to get a clean consistent edge bevel, then using super light strokes to reduce burr and finish. That last step involving super light strokes to finish was a key change in my sharpening process a while back that made me realize how much you can really get done with just a coarse stone by itself, just by varying pressure and how you use the stone. Some of the professional and experienced amateur sharpeners here at BF can do pretty amazing stuff with just a single coarse stone and a strop. But you don't have to be a sharpening pro (I'm definitely not--still practicing and horking up my practice blades on a regular basis :cool:) to learn and be able to get pretty darn good sharpness on your knives. But for best results that go beyond a utility edge with steels like S30/S35, IMO you still want something in that "EF" grit, something around 1K to 1200 in diamonds. I just posted similar in the Maintenance forum last night, I have an M390 Kershaw blade I was getting pretty good results with using silicon carbide stones plus strop, but when I switched to all diamonds and finished with the DMT EF, it got noticeably sharper. You can get really good results and more than adequate utility edges with just a coarse stone, for sure. But most of us knife knuts are gonna want better :D, and a higher grit makes it that much easier to get there assuming that the basic technique is solid.
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Idk I can get these blades rediculously sharp on my alox ceramics. I use very light pressure there too. The edge I get with the 320 diamon is beyond jagged and toothy, it does not cut it rips. I just end up getting frustrated and give up. Every time I am like I'll give the diamonds a try again, it just seems to make my edge worse. No better than a pull through sharpener.
 
Lapedog said:
Honestly with the 320 grit coarse dmt stone I can never get a sharp edge. It feels like the steel is skipping off the peaks of the grit particles. I need to try a finer DMT stone.

It seems to me right now that if I were to take my knife with a decent edge (edge is in condition where it's ready for a touch up) and do a few strokes on the dmt coarse, say 5 on each side, the edge is immediately chewed up into a jagged mess.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you are using too much pressure. The Coarse DMT is a Coarse stone but on the fine side of the Coarse spectrum. The Coarse DMT is basically the same as a Fine India or Fine SiC stone so, Coarse by some standards and Fine by others.

The Coarse DMT when used with light pressure will create an edge that is actually slightly shiny and with a sharpness that will rival most any other stone. If you are not getting a sharp edge with the DMT Coarse then I would recommend trying again with light pressure while being as consistent as possible.
 
At coarser grits like < 400, you can probably use AlOx stones for those particular steels. Not as optimal, but works, I've used AlOx on s30v and gotten pretty decent results. Again: I do think diamonds is optimal material for these steels and that's a pretty consensus point among the sharpening pros, and from what I can observe in my own (limited) sharpening experience with my own knives. But the bigger point is that it's more about sharpening technique than which stone you use. When I struggled with my diamond stones a lot, it was always those 2 key problems of not holding a consistent angle throughout the sharpening stroke, and using WAY WAY too much pressure.
 
Well use less pressure yes, but I would be tempted even before you go to the finer grit diamond, try to make sure you can get your blade to a utility level of sharpness (slices news print, shaves arm hair with friction) just off the coarse stone. If you can't, there's something else going on (either a flaw in the stone, or your technique) that's a problem and there's no point spending $$ and time on the higher grit until you've got things worked out at the lower grit. The higher grit is just refinement and improved sharpness, but it will not resolve unresolved issues from a lower grit. I would try to get to utility sharpness on coarse first, and if you run into issues there, post in the maintenance forum with details and folks will usually help out.
 
Jason B. said:
Sounds like you are using too much pressure. The Coarse DMT is a Coarse stone but on the fine side of the Coarse spectrum. The Coarse DMT is basically the same as a Fine India or Fine SiC stone so, Coarse by some standards and Fine by others.

The Coarse DMT when used with light pressure will create an edge that is actually slightly shiny and with a sharpness that will rival most any other stone. If you are not getting a sharp edge with the DMT Coarse then I would recommend trying again with light pressure while being as consistent as possible.
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maximus83 said:
At coarser grits like < 400, you can probably use AlOx stones for those particular steels. Not as optimal, but works, I've used AlOx on s30v and gotten pretty decent results. Again: I do think diamonds is optimal material for these steels and that's a pretty consensus point among the sharpening pros, and from what I can observe in my own (limited) sharpening experience with my own knives. But the bigger point is that it's more about sharpening technique than which stone you use. When I struggled with my diamond stones a lot, it was always those 2 key problems of not holding a consistent angle throughout the sharpening stroke, and using WAY WAY too much pressure.
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I literally could not be putting less pressure on the knife. I am putting zero pressure other than the weight of the knife. I don't really know what I am doing wrong. Probably just need practice. I should buy a shizz knife with decent steel to practice on.

M maximus83 I can touch up any steel with the ceramics. Reprofiling high V carbide steels is not really possible. (Unless you have a couple days to spare)
 
Lapedog said:
Probably just need practice. I should buy a shizz knife with decent steel to practice on.
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Yes a good idea, highly recommended. Don't know about you, I have a psychological barrier with some of my folders that I like, I was reluctant about really leaning into it when sharpening them as I was afraid I'd damage an expensive blade when I wasn't proficient at freehand. I got a handful of cheap folders, fixed, and kitchen knives from around home, yard sales, and a few cheapies at Big River and BladeHQ online. I still practice on those, it really helps figure out your sharpening technique and you don't have to worry about horking a nice blade. :rolleyes: That helped me figure out things like how to hold a consistent angle, how to vary pressure, how to work on tricky areas like the belly and tip.
 
maximus83 said:
Well use less pressure yes, but I would be tempted even before you go to the finer grit diamond, try to make sure you can get your blade to a utility level of sharpness (slices news print, shaves arm hair with friction) just off the coarse stone. If you can't, there's something else going on (either a flaw in the stone, or your technique) that's a problem and there's no point spending $$ and time on the higher grit until you've got things worked out at the lower grit. The higher grit is just refinement and improved sharpness, but it will not resolve unresolved issues from a lower grit. I would try to get to utility sharpness on coarse first, and if you run into issues there, post in the maintenance forum with details and folks will usually help out.
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OK, so factory edge is still decent but not razor sharp. Still touch up with a coarse grind? Seems overkill
 
Yeah if starting with an already clean factory edge bevel that just needs touching up, it's worth using the approach that removes the least amount of metal, I'd start by seeing if you can restore sharpness with a strop, or if necessary, some light strokes on a EF diamond stone.
 
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