Best Survival Knife?

Moodino said:
. These impressive looking 'weapons' 6.5" - 9" are too unwieldy for close-up tasks, in most case skinning and they are too short and light to be formidable choppers. Like I said, I respect disagreement on this and would like to be proven wrong.
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Respectfully, I have to disagree. While they aren't ideal for these tasks, they'll do almost anything. If I were going to be stuck in the wilderness with only one blade I'd want a 6-7" one, because I know I could do anything with it, even use it as a weapon, if necessary.
 
I agree with XMP- one only has to look at a leukko to see that that size range is effective for survival purposes (maybe not ideal for all tasks) at least by those who are trained in using it. But it all boils down to personal preferences. I have a CRKT wrangler folder, Cold steel 7" fillet knife, grohman or puuko fix blades all in my survival hipsack- and have added the Kershaw Outcast to the group but have not put it through its paces yet. A friend of my mom uses a ulu with a guthook as his ONLY blade when in the bush (along with an Estwing axe). And guess what- we are both happy with our choices!
 
Yes. Justin Just delivered it to me- bless his soul!
Have I got more pictures? Yes. Too many to post just now, but here's one more for now...I also just cut up a rabbit with it for dinner. Very good boner/butcher. Just barely long enough to butcher small game.
Outdoorsman.jpg


Moodino said:
Hey that Ranger does look like a 'Kissin cousin' to the Outdoorsman. Is it a custom or a production Ranger? Got a better side-on view picture?
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XMP said:
Respectfully, I have to disagree. While they aren't ideal for these tasks, they'll do almost anything. If I were going to be stuck in the wilderness with only one blade I'd want a 6-7" one, because I know I could do anything with it, even use it as a weapon, if necessary.
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Yessssss, and no.

Really, when it comes to weapons in *most* environments, the knife - especially if I only have one longish blade- is my *last* choice. clubs, spears, learn how to work with bows, even thrown rocks (I've learned sling and I have to say it takes a LOT of work to get good enough to consider. spear throwers are very doable if you spend some time learning the 'bounce wave' and can tune a thrower and darts. Highly recommended, but you have to spend enough time to make three sets from scratch and cast several hundred times.)

That being said- if I've got an axe, it's my first choice for hand weapon, and if I've got two knives, well then.

Now- I said *most* environments. What i mean by that is most of the territory I'm likely to find myself in. That's going to be temperate to subtropical, coastal to mountains, with growth and animals.

I *could* and I'm well aware of it, be at sea (special circumstances and VERY special equipment), in the desert, or in a barren and colder mountain environment. If it's desert, I've got a special kit *anyway* which includes a .308 field bolt action. I carry a few more knives if I'm out in the middle of the desert, too. Colder mountain and arid lower mountain environments, the first goal is to MOVE. That mostly solves that problem. But if you can't move, you better have gear before you even head that direction, I think. Cold weather is dangerous. So is lack of water. Knives are incidental tools for the basic problem of both.

As for blade length, I have no problem doing the finest work I *have* to do to survive with a 6 or 7 inch blade. But there's just no reason at all to not have a basic SAK with finer blades, awl, and corkscrew. And there's no reason at all you can't do just fine with a 3.5 inch hunter.

I also carry a diamond hone in my sak sheath. If you are goiing to be out for more than 2 days, you need one. I forgot to mention it earlier because it's always there, but I am curious how other people solve the problem. (my ditch kits have files as well)
 
koyote said:
I also carry a diamond hone in my sak sheath. If you are goiing to be out for more than 2 days, you need one. I forgot to mention it earlier because it's always there, but I am curious how other people solve the problem. (my ditch kits have files as well)
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if worst came to worst, a stone from a river would work, then stroppin on your belt, I've used my belt many times out n' about. But I too carry a gerber diamond rod, and a few hard ware stones, they work great for tuch ups, and gettin a shaving edge.


Btw, like many have said, For a survival knife, as in one and only knife, Something with 7-9 inch fixed blade would be perfect. If you have a 3-4" knife for smaller stuff, even better. But a 7" bladed knife will do everything, but nothing very well. Thats why a 9" blade will chop, and a 4" will do the small stuff.
 
Fonly said:
Btw, like many have said, For a survival knife, as in one and only knife, Something with 7-9 inch fixed blade would be perfect. If you have a 3-4" knife for smaller stuff, even better. But a 7" bladed knife will do everything, but nothing very well. Thats why a 9" blade will chop, and a 4" will do the small stuff.
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I just don't agree that chopping is important enough, nor *just* doable with a large knife. I cna see if there is NO growth under 4 inches thick and you HAVE to have a green log for one reason or another, I just can't see where these two factors would possibly happen. 9 inches is getting out of my comfort zone for skinning squirrels, which is much more likely to be a big deal.

For that matter, if youwant to really get into it, the SOG I have is a bit too prybar for best effect. Makes a crappy drawknife. My Muela Ranger is better in a lot of ways, despite the shorter blade.
 
koyote said:
I just don't agree that chopping is important enough, nor *just* doable with a large knife. I cna see if there is NO growth under 4 inches thick and you HAVE to have a green log for one reason or another, I just can't see where these two factors would possibly happen. 9 inches is getting out of my comfort zone for skinning squirrels, which is much more likely to be a big deal.

For that matter, if youwant to really get into it, the SOG I have is a bit too prybar for best effect. Makes a crappy drawknife. My Muela Ranger is better in a lot of ways, despite the shorter blade.
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I didnt say a 9" knife only, when coupled with a smaller knife it would be great. A knife with a 7" blade and with proper grind could skin a squrriel, obviously not well, but its a survival situation, not a camping trip. Again coupling it with a smaller knife is the way to go, heck put a folding knife in your pocket. And no offence, but chopping isnt important or doable with a large knife? what woods are you in. What shelters are you going to be building with a 5" LOG, a cabin? 4" is the max for something like that, which a knife that size would excell at (7").
 
Fonly said:
And no offence, but chopping isnt important or doable with a large knife? what woods are you in. What shelters are you going to be building with a 5" LOG, a cabin? 4" is the max for something like that, which a knife that size would excell at (7").
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Well, that's actually the point- but I need to rephrase:

The sort of chopping that would *require* a 7-9 inch chopper isn't necessary, which you agree with- not building a log cabin with a KaBar.

The sort of chopping that *is* necessary can be done with tools other than a knife. And the main point- I don't chop when I'm making a leanto. When I'm dealing with firewood, but I can break that any numbers of ways.

Maybe my style of rustication isn't big on chopping or something. I've *never* gotten the deal with chopping being a really big deal with a survival blade.It just seems like if it is important enough to determine the size of your knife, you might want to just use an axe instead.

Now, going back to the start of the subthread, someone mentioned a single knife scenario-if you add the small folder or SAK back into it like you just did, I actually prefer a larger fixed blade than I would otherwise and my prybar SOG looks good again.
 
koyote said:
Maybe my style of rustication isn't big on chopping or something. I've *never* gotten the deal with chopping being a really big deal with a survival blade.It just seems like if it is important enough to determine the size of your knife, you might want to just use an axe instead.
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How do you make your shelter. Debre huts, Or do you use mostly dead wood. Im not trying to start an argument or anything, Just trying to understand aswell.

What I'm meanign to say is this. If there is only one KNIFE I can have in the woods, its going to be something a bit bigger than a 5" blade. For the reason, might not be dead wood acceptable for shelter and some would have to be cut, and also splitting wood if need be to get dry fuel.

What would you use in a situation where you could only have one knife?

Lets say it just rained. But lots of dead wood around.
 
koyote said:
The sort of chopping that *is* necessary can be done with tools other than a knife. And the main point- I don't chop when I'm making a leanto. When I'm dealing with firewood, but I can break that any numbers of ways.
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That I agree with, I take an axe when ever I can, and leave the small knife for the small things.
 
Fonly said:
How do you make your shelter. Debre huts, Or do you use mostly dead wood. Im not trying to start an argument or anything, Just trying to understand aswell.

What I'm meanign to say is this. If there is only one KNIFE I can have in the woods, its going to be something a bit bigger than a 5" blade. For the reason, might not be dead wood acceptable for shelter and some would have to be cut, and also splitting wood if need be to get dry fuel.

What would you use in a situation where you could only have one knife?

Lets say it just rained. But lots of dead wood around.
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Okay, I'm down with that- no arguing:)

My ideal lean to is going to involve a living tree with a properly placed crotch, a nice recent fall for a ridgepole, and whatever to make the sides. I can certainly see where cutting some wood is going to help, and I probably will, but I am not necessarily going to chop with a blade to do it.


If I could only have one knife, out of knives I currently own, it would be the Muela Ranger- mine is a bit modified and has more serrated length on the top (and the serrations are sharpened). That's a 5.75 inch blade. 5inches of edge, and overall length is 10.25. Again, give me my SAK and I'm back to my SOG prybar. Neither of these are Really Good Knives. But I don't have $500 for one right now. If I did, I'd want a size and design much closer to the Muela.



I'd probably do most of my wood splitting with a rock. and a big ole branch
 
Well, I gotta say, I dont agree with what you have to say, But that doesnt mean it doesn't carry weight. I think its great you can get those results with dead wood. I personally have never done that, And to be honest Never will, But again, I admire the fact that you can, and its too bad more of use couldnt be in the woods without wanting to chop things up :D

Btw, The price of a knife means nothing, Its what the user can do with it, obviously you can do with the muela, and I gotta say I have one and think its a nice little knife.
 
I think the pine thing might help. Lots of pine forest. Which means lots of pine thatch. Well,not thatch, I'm lazy and just pile it on thick.

And I love my Muela, I just can't claim it's an end all be all knife. with a few minor changes to the blade design (thumb notches, please) it's pretty close in pattern, though.

Maybe once I get some thicker steel I'll make one :)
 
Moodino said:
This type of interchange occurs CONSTANTLY on all the forums- Knives, Gadgets, Flashlights, Camping Gear et al
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Not sure how to spread the word in a manner that will stick but I'll keep it simple if long:

Before someone can get good advice from a panel or forum of 'experts' they must frame their need in a manner that allows advisers to help them efficiently and effectively.
When the inevitable "What's the best survival knife for the woods" question comes up, without an outline of the need- I'll assume that the questioner is NOT seeking advice on a survival knife but rather wants advice on a TROPHY knife that looks like it might be a survival knife. The same goes for all the other toys in all the other domains Gadgets, Flashlights, Camping Gear et al.


Three Types of Need:
-Probable need - what is very likely to be needed
-Possible need - what might be needed
-Fantasized need- what we wish was needed but isn't needed or likely to be needed

Analysis of Your Probable Need
- What are the specific scenarios for your envisioned needs?
- Describe a few 'what if' situations clinically outlining your envisioned predicaments or challenges
- Discuss situations in your past or in someone else's past that have taught you that you were not prepared for emergencies that did crop up

Matching Solutions to Challenges
- Now outline what you feel the solutions might be
- What tools, techniques or advice do you need to have in order to mitigate or resolve specific challenges when they confront you?

Solutions Requirements or Profile
- List the characteristic features of the method and the tools that you feel will resolve the envisioned challenges
- List any exclusions or restrictions on the tools and methods

Zero-in On The Target Solutions Based on the Profile
- What products, training and instruction are available that will deliver the profiled solutions?
- Ask the questions of the forum members and do some of your own research as well

NOW you've narrowed the field of possibilities down to around a handful of viable options. After you've done all this you may then pose your question:
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In a Wilderness scenario with the following characteristics:
- Deciduous forrest in Pacific Northwest of the North American Continent
- Event is a 3 day backpacking trip with nightly camping
- Season is Winter around December/January- Heavy snowfall is predicted to fall over the existing 12 inch base
- Fire-making is envisioned to be from fallen seasoned timber plus back-up stoves.
- We have tents (or Bivys) but may engage in some shelter building from available timber
- The region is known to be inhabited by Mountain Lions and Brown Bears
- We'll be fly fishing the larger river- known to contain Salmon
- The party is comprised of A 35 year old Male a 30 year old female and a second female of 20 years age
- The Male's level of backwoods experience is very good
- The Accompanying females have had little experience in weekend backpacking trips of this duration or difficulty.
- All the tools needed are known and on hand except that the largest knives carried are average Swiss Army type folders.

What ( if any ) would be the most appropriate larger bladed knife to ensure:
1) Self-defense in the event of an attack by wild animals or crazed humans
2) Effective processing of timber for shelter building and fire-making
3) Effective processing of Sockeye Salmon
4) Effective rope cutting
5) Effective last ditch digging or use as an ice-pick in an icy ascent?

My Budget is $
I don't care about steel types, brand names or aesthetic styling.
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The answer for this particular scenario.....
I'll let the rest of the forum pitch in ....
My carefully considered choice would be the newly minted Ranger Knives Outdoorsman
 Sporting a 5.5" 1/4" thick ATS-34 Blade with a carefully designed profile that combines an all purpose cutting edge with a slight drop point that allows for numerous bushcraft as well as defense possibilities.It can filet a salmon, skin small and medium game and the point can be pressed into service for detailed work. The lower edge is straight and curves gracefully for the ideal chopping/carving/skinning combinations of tasks. The grind is a hollow grind with a robust convex cutting edge. This combination has the following advantages:
- The Hollow main grind lightens the blade a bit while providing relief from friction in woodworking tasks. In addition, the hollow acts as a 'blood groove' facilitating a blood channel and mitigating suction or adhesion.
-The straight blade back facilitates effective batoning to split larger logs.
- As 1/4" is rather thick, these features are essential in an all purpose survival blade geometry. The thick convex secondary grind at the cutting edge combines edge strength with ease of field sharpening and effective cutting angle. The use of ATS-34 as a steel type is a compromise that balances cost with effective mitigation of corrosion. The substantial choil, combined with aggressive thumb jimping allow for its effective use in skinning and other 'close-to-the-edge' manipulation.
-The grip geometry is simple and yet specifically designed to promote a good grip even with cold, bare and wet hands- potentially made slippery by slime, blood or other outdoors lubricants. The gently belly coupled with respectable fore and aft notches ensure a secure grip in both push and draw actions.
-The use of Linen Micarta is a modernization of plain wood handles. Unsealed Linen Micarta wicks away some surface wetness, promoting better contact between hand and grip - especially when perspiration or environmental wetness are part of the usage scenario.
- The straight grip back and rounded pommel, minimize friction hotspots that can cause fatigue or a poor hold on the handle.
- The lanyard hole allows for the attachment of a lanyard tether that mitigates loss, especially in disastrous or emergency situations.
- The recommended sheath is manufactured by Spec-Ops and is called the Survival sheath. This sheath has all the characteristics of an effective tactical and survival sheath and is suitable for the Ranger Knives- Outdoorsman.
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Dude, the sockeye run is in Summer, and they stop feeding before they get into the river anyway. Good luck with your fly fishing, maybe you'll get lucky and accidentally hook one in the ass.
 
Fonly said:
How do you make your shelter. Debre huts, Or do you use mostly dead wood. Im not trying to start an argument or anything, Just trying to understand aswell.

What I'm meanign to say is this. If there is only one KNIFE I can have in the woods, its going to be something a bit bigger than a 5" blade. For the reason, might not be dead wood acceptable for shelter and some would have to be cut, and also splitting wood if need be to get dry fuel.

What would you use in a situation where you could only have one knife?

Lets say it just rained. But lots of dead wood around.
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I'd agree

If I could only have one knife it would have to have atleast a 6-7 inch blade. It would have to be a decent chopper and also have lots of belly for gutting.
 
Dude. It was JUST an illustration not a masters thesis. Chill whydontcha :D
Chunk said:
Dude, the sockeye run is in Summer, and they stop feeding before they get into the river anyway. Good luck with your fly fishing, maybe you'll get lucky and accidentally hook one in the ass.
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I really think I just think differently. I'm a complete knife nut, but I'm also a complete nut nut!

I'd rather break a rock and use the sharp stone wedge and branch "mallet" to split wood than any size or blade type of knife.

As I was changing my finger bandages last night I was thinking, "How would I do this withoout the SAK scissors, which are the only one handed off hand ambitextrous scissors in the house?" I thought about this thread and the idea of using a 7 inch blade and cringed. I *already* slice the edge off my finger with a knife, that's why I'm changing bandages!

Gutting fish- 5 inch blade like this outdoorsman or my Ranger. Great.

first aid and hygeine uses? SAK.

ingrown toenail removal? no 7 inch blades, *please*

whittling tools and making rope and salvaging whatever from available wreckage? I'd rather have a "fine" knife than a chopper.

Now, jointinga larger animal is going to be easier with a cleaver, but.... enh. Not enough reason on balance to give up on the rest.

What I REALLy want to know is which 6 inch blade knives people actually split logs with.
 
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