Better than S30V

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KnifeTest

Joined
Aug 7, 2004
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71
Hi guys

What do you think about the SGPS steel ? It's better than the S30V steel ?

Some one can give a data sheet about this steel ?

Thanks
 
SGPS composition:
C=1.4 Cr=15 Si=0.5 Mo=2.8 Mn=0.4 S=0.03 P=0.03 V=2.0
CPM S30V:
C=1.45 Cr=14 Mo=2 V=4 N=0.2
S30V has more C and V some N.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
nozh2002 said:
SGPS composition:
C=1.4 Cr=15 Si=0.5 Mo=2.8 Mn=0.4 S=0.03 P=0.03 V=2.0
CPM S30V:
C=1.45 Cr=14 Mo=2 V=4 N=0.2
S30V has more C and V some N.

Thanks, Vassili.
Click to expand...


I means physical data, corrosion comparison, impact force, edge retention and so on and not only the composition


thank anyway for your input

Do you know a website where I can find technical data og SGPS ?
 
As far as I know such info is not available. You might wan to try and ask Fallkniven directly. They have a forum on Knifeforums.

-Cliff
 
Just looking at the composition S30V looks better. It has less chrome (I consider chrome a liability) and adds nitrogen which should make it more stainless (and tougher) with less chrome. It also has less molybdenum (I consider moly a pain in the ass) and more vanadium (which produces hard, fine carbides). I would expect S30V to be tougher and easier to sharpen.
 
KnifeTest said:
I means physical data, corrosion comparison, impact force, edge retention and so on and not only the composition ...
Click to expand...
Much of these attributes will come in the form of heat (and cryo) treatment. Composition is an indicator of potential.
 
ras said:
Much of these attributes will come in the form of heat (and cryo) treatment. Composition is an indicator of potential.
Click to expand...


So, can we believe to the advertising of any producer about their product ?

For example for S30V ( or any each steel ) WHO IS THE BEST STEEL' FORMER ( MAKER )



Someone can write a list like following ? :


for VG10 the best maket is BuckReeve
for AUS 8 the best maker is Benchderco
for 5062845 xyz the best maker is Sogrider


so on ...


of course, it's your own opinion
 
Jeff Clark said:
Just looking at the composition S30V looks better. It has less chrome (I consider chrome a liability) and adds nitrogen which should make it more stainless (and tougher) with less chrome. It also has less molybdenum (I consider moly a pain in the ass) and more vanadium (which produces hard, fine carbides). I would expect S30V to be tougher and easier to sharpen.
Click to expand...



what do you think about it ?
 
As far as stainless steels go, S30V handles everything from fillet knives to super-thick tactical monsters and has done great on everything in between. Most production companies run their S30V softer than the custom makers, but it still does alright. Like other high chromium steels, it will lack the toughness of lower-chrome steels such as 52100, L6, or 3V (its non-stainless version), but most makers just use thicker steel to make up for that lack of toughness.
 
thombrogan said:
... Most production companies run their S30V softer than the custom makers, but it still does alright. ...
Click to expand...
Which production companies are running it soft? Chris Reeve Knives runs it softer than Benchmade. Who else runs it soft?
 
All production companies are running it softer than several custom makers, as some of the customs are significantly past 60 HRC.

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
All production companies are running it softer than several custom makers, as some of the customs are significantly past 60 HRC.

-Cliff
Click to expand...


why they run it softer ( the recommendation fact of C Reeve don't convince me ) ? why they don't keep it at 60HRC, I think the reason is in 60HRC or more hard, the brittlement come or an other problem ? Resilience ? Toughness ? In this case, S30V is still a good steel ?


Someone can explain it more precisely ?
 
They run it softer because :

1) they do a lot of grinding after hardening and thus have to factor in machinability
2) thier ovens can not take the required soak temps (this was an issue with 440V (S60V) in particular)
3) they would have to fight the misconception that it is "bad" at higher HRC (benchmade commented in the past that one of the reasons they didn't switch more to M2 vs ATS-34 was the demand it would take on marketing to promote the change)
4) their tolerances might not be high enough, you give up precision in large batches and thus have to keep the hardness down so that you can exceed it without too much trouble
5) they are trying to make a more "abusable" knife, as they are selling to a wide range of users who may be relative novices
6) no cryo ability
and so on .

-Cliff
 
Use it in small utility knives and run it hard like Phil Wilson does (60+ hrc), and get the edge very thin (0.005") and acute (<15 per side) so as to minimize metal removal for sharpening.

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
Use it in small utility knives and run it hard like Phil Wilson does (60+ hrc), and get the edge very thin (0.005") and acute (<15 per side) so as to minimize metal removal for sharpening.

-Cliff
Click to expand...


or an other knifemaker who treated S30V more hard than 60 HRC please ?


Thanks Cliff
 
Cliff, I already asked this before but has not right answer, may be you may help.

According to this:
http://www.crucibleservice.com/datash/dsS30Vv4b.pdf
Edge retention of CPM S30V is 145% better then 440C
and According to this:
http://www.crucibleservice.com/datash/dsS60v4b.pdf
wear Resistance (I assume same as edge retention) of CPM S60V at least 8 times better then 440C (40 relativee value against less then 5).

So this may mean that CPM S60V (800/145) about 5.5 times wear resistant then CPM S30V. It may be less tough but for small blades 5 times better edge retention brobably more important then lower toughness. And did anybody hear about broken Spyderco Military?

Thanks, Vassili.
 
nozh2002 said:
Cliff, I already asked this before but has not right answer, may be you may help.

According to this:
http://www.crucibleservice.com/datash/dsS30Vv4b.pdf
Edge retention of CPM S30V is 145% better then 440C
and According to this:
http://www.crucibleservice.com/datash/dsS60v4b.pdf
wear Resistance (I assume same as edge retention) of CPM S30V at least 8 times better then 440C (40 relativee value against less then 5).

So this may mean that CPM S60V (800/145) about 5.5 times wear resistant then CPM S30V. It may be less tough but for small blades 5 times better edge retention brobably more important then lower toughness. And did anybody hear about broken Spyderco Military?

Thanks, Vassili.
Click to expand...


S30V with 440 ? it's better to compare with ATS34, BG42 may be ?
 
When S30V was first discussed on Reeves forum and his choice of hardness, several people pointed out that they were using it in blades much harder without problems, so a search there should turn up links to a few makers. Look for the ones making smaller blades, the large tacticals are generally softer, ~59 HRC.

Yes, S30v was actually meant to be a compromise over S60V / S90V, not as much edge retention but with better machinability and toughness, this has been forgotton about generally due to the level of hype.

If you are just looking at edge retention alone, for small blades in a stainless steel, get BG-42 or S90v at 63-64 HRC.

-Cliff
 
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