Better than S30V

Buck states that their S30V blades (Mayo and the Cabelas line) are RC 59.5-61. Paul Bos knows what he is doing, and they have the equipment to make it happen.
 
Believe what you want to believe. Untill you've been to a reputable factory and seen for yourself don't asume to know the facts.
 
Ken, it isn't a matter of "belief", this isn't a religious issue, no one is claiming to have seen the burning bush of Benchmade. I presented a viewpoint based on facts and reason, now if you care to actually dispute that with contrary logic, facts and reason I would indeed be interested to hear it.

-Cliff
 
Seems to me Ken had "logic, facts and reason" in his posts. Cann't comment on his last one didn't see it before the edit. Try reading the hole post instead of looking for points to argue.
 
There is no perfect steel. All of them have trade offs. The idea is to fit them to an application or a set of design parameters, not to make a list with a grade. Hopefully, now I've explained it well enough that you understand what I mean.
Click to expand...

S30V is a good all around kind of steel. There are many steels that perform as well as S30V in ways. There are other steels that leave S30V in the dirt in other ways.

The one comment about S90V being a "Fag" steel is hilarious.
I guess a steel that some can't grind and finish is "purdy scary" so anyone who cannot work with it better talk this steel down so customers dont ask for it. ;)
I heard a TRUE story about a company who told a customer that I "know now" they wanted $10,000.00 to make one of their semi custom folding knives with a blade made out of S90V. That steel is real scary Im telling ya! :rolleyes: ;)
S90V is one tough steel. This steel will perform well in some applications. S90V is very hard to process in the shop. It is hard to sharpen also.

"REAL CUSTOM" knife makers make what their customers ask for or recommend the best steel for the application.
When a customer asks "what is the best steel" a question to the customer should be what are you using the blade for? This is a sign of a good knife maker not a salesman.

S30v is a step better than ats 34 and that group of steels. Is it worth the extra effort and does it perform better? For the average knife and average person using a knife it is pretty good steel. It is NOT the holy grail of steels however for all applications.

Simply testing one steel against another does nothing unless you test it for your situation and the way you will be using the knife. I think Ken is tiring to say that the layers are deep when this question is asked. I think Fred says it all in a simple statement quoted above.

If you worry about the blade steel that you are buying in a knife call a real knife maker that you trust. Most good makers will ask you the right questions about the use of the knife before making a recomendation.

Good makers will spend a lot of time figuring out blade steels before putting our stamp of approval on them. As Ken said some of us do steel testing not only for our custom knives but have to offer our test results to factories that we are dealing with for production knife designs. Most factories expect our recommendations to be correct.
 
It seems to me that a lot of folks like to get mad and talk about the "real world" as if makers lived in it, and the rest of us don't. That's not a shot at you Darrel, I have a lot of respect for you and your designs. Just a general comment. Most of us users *do* live in the real world and use our knives that way also.

I have done "real world" testing of an S30V folder and am very unimpressed. Maybe mine is a lemon, but I just got my Buck Vanguard (in S30V) today, and will be using it extensively and reporting on it. I figure between Buck's manufacturing and Paul Bos's heat treating, this baby will be about as good as S30V gets. I just might pick up a "plain jane" Vanguard for a baseline. It's a real nice looking knife and I'm hoping for a lot. Buck knives have never let me down yet.

Thanks to everyone for this informative thread! I actually do like reading opposing views, as I learn from this! Please keep it civil, we don't have to agree, and I think it's more interesting when we don't agree (politely).
 
Sodak,
There is NO higher authority when it comes to testing knives.
No person, company or lab has set up true testing proceedures for blades.
The mills that make the steel test the steel in larger coupon sizes that a blade thickness wise. This creates a new set of properties that have to be addressed .... the thin edge of a blade. Until a lab is set up we will have to rely on what we find out from makers and factories about blades.
Some makers live knives everyday and test everything they do on a knife to see how their product performs. Makers listen to feed back from the field also to make decisions.

S30V is a steel that has some good points and some bad points as do all of the steels. There are factors that will make a difference in every blade you come in contact with. The heat treat may have had a different set of parameters used to heat treat it compared to other blades out there.
Whoever heat treated your blade had a choice of ranges (ttt curves) to process the blade to.
Everyone has an opinion. So to compare this blade to other S30V blades cannot be done unless all of the factors in the heat treat are exactly the same. Some factors add and subtract toughness, hardness, and other.

What do you find disappointing about S30V?
What tests are you doing?
 
Just another variable to consider. I can get a larger difference in performance by how I sharpen an edge more so than the difference between most of the steel types.
 
Hi Darrel,

Basically I'm finding the edge holding disappointing. I'm also quite willing to admit that because of all the "hype" about S30V my expectations were high, and I'm finding it no better than VG 10. I've been doing some whittling (soft aspen and year old hard pine) and also some hemp cutting.

I reduced the edge angle to around 20 deg included on my Edgepro for consistency sake, and am finding that on these sorts of media, VG 10 holds an edge a little better, BG 42 a LOT better, and D2 still better. Perhaps I have a "soft" knife (or a hard one for all I know), I am thinking of sending it back in to the maker for some more testing.

Thanks!
 
I have followed this thread for sometime now. Quite interesting and very good thought provoking input. I have always found it facinating to watch from the sidelines how these things develop.

Here we are in the summer of 2004 sharing information and knowledge at a rate than just a few years ago was a pipe dream. When I was young the only way to obtain this kind of information was to attend shows regularly and hope to get involved in a deep conversation at your favorite dealer or custom knife makers booth. Bravo to all that participated in this exchange. I certainly learned a bunch.

Speaking of when I was young. That was a time when things were much simpler. It wasn't too long ago that the preferred steel at a deer camp was a custom blade from grandmas old broken butcher knife because it cut the best. Then someone discovered that an old file could make a hell of a cutting edge and that was the craze for a time. Crosscut saw blades were quite common to see converted into a knife in my youth and they worked well too. I know I used one out of an old saw blade at the deer camp for most of my youth with no complaints, but many compliments.

We should be thankful for too many choices out there today. Who knows what tomorrow will bring. What great steel will be the talk of the town in 2005, or 06? No one heard of half these steels mentioned in this thread just a few years ago and we all survived just fine. I say if you are happy with your knife and if it cuts it is worth keeping. It need not be any more complicated than that. But it was good to read a good bit of the info presented here.

One thing I'll add about this S30V. My understanding of it is that it is very hard to get a good polish on. For some that alone makes it a bad choice. Buffing is hard enough on steels that do polish well. If you like that brushed look it may be something to look at though. But regardless of what you use in your blades. One rule always sold me. KISS> Everyone knows that one.

And as for the statements about companies and their behavior. Well, who could blame a company for watching it's back these days? America is sue happy. Hell, I had to tell the church soccer team they couldn't practice in my field anymore because some soccer mom threatened to sue me because of her son's sprained ankle. That is the world we live in folks.
 
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