Beware of Rplanalp (Jeffrey Planalp) - WILL NEVER DO BUSINESS

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hero5211314

hero5211314

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Greetings everyone,

I thought I would share this with everyone. At first it was smooth as butter however the whole thing went much bitter than I've expected...:eek: Jeffrey Planalp AKA Rplanalp (Riley) was our fellow BF member. Here is what happened between us;

(Link -- http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...el-2-with-Custom-Leather-Case?highlight=brend)


1) On 06/15/15 I've reached out to Riley via email regarding the WW Brend 2 #13/50 that he had posted for sale. Thru multiple emails, on 06/16/15 we came to a trade agreement of $500.00 + XM-18 3'' Slicer (Offer #1). The communication was great and we were ready to conduct the transaction.

2) From 06/16/15 - 06/17/15 I was doing extensive researching trying to find everything I could about such collectible piece. In addition, I had a rather rare chance of discussing it with a knowledgeable knife collector. Moreover, I made the $500.00 deposit on 06/16/15 to show my commitment of the purchase (Via Paypal).

3) However, on 06/17/15 @ around 3:00PM (PST) after serious consideration I've reached out to Riley making a counter offer (Offer #2). Unfortunately, we did not come to a mutual agreement. Riley's take on the counter offer was either stick w/ the original offer or no deal. As result, I've retracted from our purchase agreement. To my understanding, the essence of a deal is negotiation...Keep in mind that this was all between the 10-15 mins time frame. Next, Riley's text agreed that a full issue refund will be issued (No specific time frame). Under good faith, I was expecting the refund to come in shortly. So, I waited patiently from 4:00PM (PST) until the next morning, 06/18/15 9:00AM (PST)...Nothing and no communication at ALL!

4) On 06/18/15 morning @ 9:00AM (PST) I took the initiative to reach out to Riley inquiring about the status update of my refund . He replied, "I'll work on it this evening" From experiences, the paypal refund process is incredibly simple and easy. It was just a click of a bottom, however Riley is now rather bitter about delivery the refund on time...

5) I then replied Riley trying to settle his bitterness by giving him an extra 3 hours to issue the refund, which was until 12:00PM (PST). If not, I will proceed with the paypal dispute/claim and get it back myself (Stated clearly in my text to Riley). Riley's reply was "Feel free to dispute" This reply really made me felt unconformable with his attitude and behavior. So, I took immediate action w/ Paypal.
 
He should just refund you .. Not worth the aggravation . I agree negotiating is part of the deal but next time try and hammer out the details before you send the money. By you sending the money .. In my opinion is accepting the deal, entering back into negotiations after that fact is poor form but it is within your rights. Just best to part way and not transact with each other again.

Life is short and their always is another knife another deal ,, not worth getting all jacked up. Holding the money from you is spiteful and controlling in nature and not a good quality to have in business .
 
Marko3 - I agree with you, I was @ fault for making the deposit and counter offered at an later time. But again, in order to complete a deal, both ends must be satisfied...Lessons learned!!

I absolutely did not wanted to post anything here. Until, Jeff decided to submitted a negative feedback, which I felt extremely insulting.



Marko3 said:
He should just refund you .. Not worth the aggravation . I agree negotiating is part of the deal but next time try and hammer out the details before you send the money. By you sending the money .. In my opinion is accepting the deal, entering back into negotiations after that fact is poor form but it is within your rights. Just best to part way and not transact with each other again.

Life is short and their always is another knife another deal ,, not worth getting all jacked up. Holding the money from you is spiteful and controlling in nature and not a good quality to have in business .
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Let me ask you, we are conducting business transactions here are we? So, if a buyer/seller is not satisfied, do they not preserve the right to back out? In addition, what gives the seller the right not to issue an immediate refund when at the beginning, a immediate payment was required? Seems like your taking sides already...rather than complaining, I'm informing.


Foghorn Leghorn Fan said:
You back out of a deal then post a complaint about not getting a refund inside 24 hours ?
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You should have worked out the details before sending the money. If you sent the money with offer #1 on the table it would be my understanding that that is the deal. After you do your research you want to change the offer that's you prerogative, but do not thing the other party has to like it. But in all fairness you should get a refund.
 
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This one's kind of strange, in terms of the need for this thread...

Simply put, you backed out of a deal.
I understand 'further negotiation' but when a deal is struck between two people, that's the deal.

I can understand the sellers frustration, and if anything, would have expected him to start this thread......

Not refunding your money is taking it too far though, he has no entitlement to it.

I would suggest you do ALL your research and negotiating before you strike a firm agreement in your future dealings.
 
The time to do extensive research on the knife was before making arrangements to buy it and sending a deposit. I don't blame the seller for being miffed about the OP trying to renegotiate the deal after terms had already been agreed to. That being said, the OP should have been refunded as soon as the deal fell through. The seller has no right to hold onto the deposit. The OP needs to be refunded ASAP and both parties need to put this behind them.

The negative feedback was deserved. OP backed out of a deal he had agreed to.
 
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LizaMari - you seemed extremely harsh about it. It seems you support the seller's bitterness... Allow me to provide an analogy; For example buying an motorcycle. I reached out to Riley (Dealer 1) for a price and put a down payment ready to buy the next day (No paper works has been signed = No goods was delivered). The next day, a better deal comes up, does the buyer have no rights to back out? Absolutely NOT! I've all the freaking rights to shop a better deal! Better yet, I can still do business if the original seller if he/she can beat the better pricing.

The point of my situation is that in a business transactions, both parties must professional and courteous. Not a big deal if we can't make the final agreement. Just walk away and never do business again. Riley here really cross the line by intending not to refund my deposit. Better yet, what if he closes all of his bank accounts and Paypal? I took the necessary measures to prevent any loss from happening
 
To JR88FAN & Paprepper - I admit it was my fault not doing enough research before diving into the agreement. But hey stuff pops up left and right, we are learning as we go. I've professionally presented my counter offer which was not accepted. As result, I've retracted my offer and walked away, I wished him happy knife hunting. Jeff on the other hand intended to cause damage, such Behavior and Attitude is intolerable!
 
hero5211314 said:
Marko3 - I agree with you, I was @ fault for making the deposit and counter offered at an later time. But again, in order to complete a deal, both ends must be satisfied...Lessons learned!!

I absolutely did not wanted to post anything here. Until, Jeff decided to submitted a negative feedback, which I felt extremely insulting.
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While it's not written anywhere that I know of, as a rule it is more of an unspoken/unwritten guideline.
This was bad communication, period.
The most important thing is to communicate clearly, and efficiently. Have everything in writing, and once all the details are agreeable then you move forward. That way, as you stated both sides end up happy with the deal. You have to work for it to go down that way, it doesn't happen when people are missing information, when doubts enter the mind, and when no one is made aware of things when they change.
Negotiation is great, but it works better at a swap meet, county fair, or farmer's market. As for someone holding your money, that isn't right. There is no right for anyone to hold onto anything that is not theirs, period. You need to make the other party involved aware of the thread. Here is a guide to help determine when a thread is really waranted or not, and how to create the thread so it doesn't blow up in the OPs face.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/announcement.php?f=699&a=207

The other thing is you failed to see that this person has multiple negative feedbacks, you did not take that into consideration because I am betting you didn't research did you?
 
See this is why Trades are super risky, much more so than regular money-for-merchandise transactions. Unfortunately I had to learn this the hard way personally not long ago. For this reason I understand both sides of the argument. This is why so many details of a trade should be posted as rules in the Exchange Rules section. For example, is it automatically your fault for backing out after sending deposit? Does that negate the trade deal and warrant a negative feedback? I can see how the seller can be ticked as he was under the impression the deal was done and probably psychologically took his knife as SPF. It is a let down in any case when a buyer agrees to purchase something from you and then backs out, especially after making a deposit in half the value (roughly).

This is why I think both in my case and in trade deals in general, both parties need to give and expect a longer time frame for every exchange that goes on within the agreement. For example, you should allow him some reasonable time for a full refund and he could be a little lax about the negative feedback. In one sense you never sent him your xm-18 3" and he never send you the knife so almost technically one could say the transaction had never begun and the negative feedback on his part way pre-mature. It is a tough call but that is why I vow to never do a trade deal again unless the value is something I could live with and worth (almost expect) loosing such as $75.
 
Thanks, Foghorn Leghorn Fan and RevDevil for notifying me of this thread. I'll state the chronological facts.

Unlike the original post, every single quote below is EXACTLY (DOWN TO THE MANY GRAMMAR ERRORS) as written. I have the emails and texts to back this.
Hero5211314 (Andy) emailed me inquiring about a knife that I posted several months ago here on BF
A couple of exchanges can be summarized in our agreeing to $500 + a Hinderer XM-18 3" for the knife.
Andy sends the funds to my PayPal account overnight (we are two time zones apart).
Andy and I discussed on the phone the details of the partial trade, in which I would send the knife first and once he received tracking he would send his XM-18 out the next day.
(Next day) Within an hour of creating and paying for the shipping label online, I receive a text from Andy:

"Good afternoon Riley, I had a rare change today chatting with an knife expert. During our conversation we have discussed about the LE brend auto. Althrough it is a nice collectible, I might have over estimated its value. At this point, I would like to offer you $325.00 cash + the hinder xm-18 3" slicer. Please let me know what do you think. Thanks Andy"

To which I repied:

"Hi Andy. I'm not interested in taking anything less than we thoughtfully agreed upon last night both verbally and in writing {via email}. Unless I hear back, I will assume that you intend to back out of our deal and I will refund your payment."

This afternoon, Andy asked when I would be able to process his refund. I sent back (within the hour) "I'll work on it this evening". Please keep in mind that I am doing this at work without external internet access. Andy replies:

"The refund process incredibly easy. Let's do this, I think give you until 12:00PM PST which is two hours from now. If not, we will go thru the PayPal dispute route instead. Hope all works well btw us."

Again--I am at work. No external internet access (this obviously includes BF and PayPal). I reply:

"It will not be done by then. Feel free to dispute".

I venture to say that this thread would not exist if I didn't leave Andy negative feedback. I decided that even though I knew he would reciprocate with his own negative feedback that there should be a record of this. I refunded the money that was paid within 24 hours (not that 24 hours is a standard). I refunded the money without further questioning Andy's reasons for why it should be okay to pay, then ask for money back and expect the deal to go through. It's not my fault that Andy panicked because he couldn't access the money that he sent to me immediately. Andy's priorities are not my priorities. The money was refunded, NEVER RANSOMED (ransomed...really??) I honestly believe that I acted properly throughout this entire deal. I also don't understand where Andy's favorite word, bitterness, comes into play at all in this scenario.
 
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After reading a couple of thee most bizarre, crazy, illogical trade stories here in the GBU...& seeing that one of these member's (who was actually BANNED from this site- sneaks back on with a reinvented username & ships empty boxes with notes inside), & now he has the audacity to come on here preaching about ethics...are you freaking kidding me???

And thanks to you warped minded individuals (the OP, & unfriendlyneighbor), from this point forward: I will be taking every precaution imaginable, before I will ever think about trading anything of value on this forum, again!

I can't believe that you people actually have the nerve to come on here & post such complete stupidity; your twisted logic makes you look like complete fools.

FWIW: I've never had a problem with any of the many wonderful trades that I've made, with so many of the awesome/honest member's here on BF. You two (OP/unfriendlyneighbor) don't fall into this category.
 
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Rplanalp said:
Thanks, Foghorn Leghorn Fan and RevDevil for notifying me of this thread. I'll state the chronological facts.

Unlike the original post, every single quote below is EXACTLY (DOWN TO THE MANY GRAMMAR ERRORS) as written. I have the emails and texts to back this.
Hero5211314 (Andy) emailed me inquiring about a knife that I posted several months ago here on BF
A couple of exchanges can be summarized in our agreeing to $500 + a Hinderer XM-18 3" for the knife.
Andy sends the funds to my PayPal account overnight (we are two time zones apart).
Andy and I discussed on the phone the details of the partial trade, in which I would send the knife first and once he received tracking he would send his XM-18 out the next day.
(Next day) Within an hour of creating and paying for the shipping label online, I receive a text from Andy:

"Good afternoon Riley, I had a rare change today chatting with an knife expert. During our conversation we have discussed about the LE brend auto. Althrough it is a nice collectible, I might have over estimated its value. At this point, I would like to offer you $325.00 cash + the hinder xm-18 3" slicer. Please let me know what do you think. Thanks Andy"

To which I repied:

"Hi Andy. I'm not interested in taking anything less than we thoughtfully agreed upon last night both verbally and in writing {via email}. Unless I hear back, I will assume that you intend to back out of our deal and I will refund your payment."

This afternoon, Andy asked when I would be able to process his refund. I sent back (within the hour) "I'll work on it this evening". Please keep in mind that I am doing this at work without external internet access. Andy replies:

"The refund process incredibly easy. Let's do this, I think give you until 12:00PM PST which is two hours from now. If not, we will go thru the PayPal dispute route instead. Hope all works well btw us."

Again--I am at work. No external internet access (this obviously includes BF and PayPal). I reply:

"It will not be done by then. Feel free to dispute".

I venture to say that this thread would not exist if I didn't leave Andy negative feedback. I decided that even though I knew he would reciprocate with his own negative feedback that there should be a record of this. I refunded the money that was paid within 24 hours (not that 24 hours is a standard). I refunded the money without further questioning Andy's reasons for why it should be okay to pay, then ask for money back and expect the deal to go through. It's not my fault that Andy panicked because he couldn't access the money that he sent to me immediately. Andy's priorities are not my priorities. The money was refunded, NEVER RANSOMED (ransomed...really??) I honestly believe that I acted properly throughout this entire deal.
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Maybe this is a bit premature, but "THANK YOU"for taking one for the team & leaving the well deserved negative feedback (knowing full well that the OP would retaliate.
 
KELAMA said:
Maybe this is a bit premature, but "THANK YOU"for taking one for the team & leaving the well deserved negative feedback (knowing full well that the OP would retaliate.
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Thanks, KELAMA.

I considered starting a GBU thread but I don't feel like this broken deal warrants anything aside from the feedback. I've read many stories in the GBU's that deserve the drama they create...this is not one of them.
 
Attached is the original text conversation...see for yourselves

1) Was I wrong for backing out of a deal that I felt overpaying - Its subjective, but I feel that a seller or buyer has equal rights to terminate an agreement @ anytime for any reason. As long as no items are being exchanged yet.

2) Was I being professional and courteous during our conversation? - YES! I respected Jeff before this went south.

3) Was I given an expected refund time - NO! Any explanation or tip on why? - NO! (Hell ya I worried about my $ you would too)

4) Did Jeff explained to me what his circumstances are? - NO! If he did, I would understand and will work with him accordingly.
 

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hero5211314 said:
LizaMari - you seemed extremely harsh about it. It seems you support the seller's bitterness... Allow me to provide an analogy; For example buying an motorcycle. I reached out to Riley (Dealer 1) for a price and put a down payment ready to buy the next day (No paper works has been signed = No goods was delivered). The next day, a better deal comes up, does the buyer have no rights to back out? Absolutely NOT! I've all the freaking rights to shop a better deal! Better yet, I can still do business if the original seller if he/she can beat the better pricing.
P
The point of my situation is that in a business transactions, both parties must professional and courteous. Not a big deal if we can't make the final agreement. Just walk away and never do business again. Riley here really cross the line by intending not to refund my deposit. Better yet, what if he closes all of his bank accounts and Paypal? I took the necessary measures to prevent any loss from happening
Click to expand...

I don't feel that the seller is bitter and I'm not being harsh. You backed out of a deal. Yes, you have the right to do that, but I'm willing to bet that by doing that, you've been put on a lot of BF members lists of people they won't do business with. The seller has explained that he was at work when you asked for a refund and he would refund your money later, and the only bitter party here appears to be you.

For what it's worth, I'm glad you were refunded your money and that you started this thread.
 
Neither party here should be posting feedback via the Itrader system. There was no completed transaction.
 
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