BG42 vs S30V, S35VN

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Evany

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There seems to be relatively little information about BG42 here on the forum. CRK used it for a while--are those blades considered inferior to the newer steels?
 
I personally am a big fan of ats 34. I have actually ordered 2 customs in the last year with that as the steel
 
Bg 42 is still used by several makers, including Brian tighe. It's an excellent steel
 
Chris ran the BG-42 much higher than S30v/S35vn/ATS-34

My BG-42 Seb's birthcard said 60-61 RC:thumbup:
 
It's been my experience that CRK hasn't put out any steels that weren't excellent. I have EDC'd BG42, S30V, and now S35VN, and none have ever disappointed. I personally prefer BG42 because it seems to take a finer edge; however, my little Snakewood 21 with S35VN has kept a very nice edge for quite a while over the past year. CRK has repeatedly pointed out that the purity of the powered steels (S30V and S35VN) compensates for longer edge life vs. the higher hardness of BG42. Don't forget that Chris was involved in the initial development of the S30V with Crucible, so I think he was sort of committed to changing from BG42 beginning in 2002.

So, to answer your question, BG42 is a fine steel as is the older ATS-34. They continue to be used today by both quality makers and production firms. BG42 Sebenza blades have become collectible these days, and so are scarce in the aftermarket.
 
Thanks for all the interesting information on BG42 blades. I was asking because I just bought a Small Regular Sebenza on the Exchange with a BG42 blade. Wanted some background. I sort of checked out of CRK during the ATS34 period and came back during the S30V period, so I missed the the BG42 era knives, including all the Regulars. Making up for that now...
 
Chris Reeve was not part of the development of S30V, that is a very widespread and accepted falsehood. Chris Reeve was one of few makers to first use the steel, and give his feedback.

I'm not sure I understand people when they say things like "s35vn has held a good edge for the past year." Personally, of your use is so light that you don't have to sharpen the edge for a year, then there is zero chance that you will be able to tell a difference between ANY two steels. To notice a difference, you have to use a knife to the point that it doesn't cut anymore. A years worth of light use just doesn't give an accurate portrayal IMO. :)


DallasSTB said:
It's been my experience that CRK hasn't put out any steels that weren't excellent. I have EDC'd BG42, S30V, and now S35VN, and none have ever disappointed. I personally prefer BG42 because it seems to take a finer edge; however, my little Snakewood 21 with S35VN has kept a very nice edge for quite a while over the past year. CRK has repeatedly pointed out that the purity of the powered steels (S30V and S35VN) compensates for longer edge life vs. the higher hardness of BG42. Don't forget that Chris was involved in the initial development of the S30V with Crucible, so I think he was sort of committed to changing from BG42 beginning in 2002.

So, to answer your question, BG42 is a fine steel as is the older ATS-34. They continue to be used today by both quality makers and production firms. BG42 Sebenza blades have become collectible these days, and so are scarce in the aftermarket.
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At the time of its introduction, it was widely reported in the knife industry press that s30v was developed with input from chris reeve. Customer use of a material under development is an integral step in a materials development project. So, yes, crk did help develop the steel.

Cts, you are a trip.
 
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Some don't know as much as they think they do.


As I said before, ALL are great steels:thumbup:
 
The only reason why i like CRK's s35 is because it touches up quickly after i put my edge on it. Otherwise i really do not prefer the factory edge.
 
CrimsonTideShooter said:
Chris Reeve was not part of the development of S30V, that is a very widespread and accepted falsehood. Chris Reeve was one of few makers to first use the steel, and give his feedback.

I'm not sure I understand people when they say things like "s35vn has held a good edge for the past year." Personally, of your use is so light that you don't have to sharpen the edge for a year, then there is zero chance that you will be able to tell a difference between ANY two steels. To notice a difference, you have to use a knife to the point that it doesn't cut anymore. A years worth of light use just doesn't give an accurate portrayal IMO. :)
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:rolleyes:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...Chris-Reeve-Green-Beret?p=3538203#post3538203

I am Dick Barber and I developed S30V while at Crucible. The development of this material was carefully considered and took many thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours of research and development time. Prior to embarking on this project I personally consulted many people in the knife industry to learn what they liked and did not like about the materials currently available in the market place. In addition to working closely with Chris I also consulted makers like Sal Glesser, Ernie Emersion, Tony Marfione, Phil Wilson, Bill Harsey, Mike Jones, Steve Ingrim, Tom Mayo, Jerry Hossom and Paul Bos.
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Oldboy said:
:rolleyes:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...Chris-Reeve-Green-Beret?p=3538203#post3538203
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Well there you go, it's right there in black and white. Thanks for validating EXACTLY what I just said.


Dick Barber developed the steel, plain and simple. CRK along with many other makers told Dick Barber what they did and did not like. That is HARDLY having a hand in "developing S30V". If you see it as anything other than that then you're blinded by fanboyism. I'm failing to see how that quote does anything other than validate my statement. Lulz
 
brownshoe said:
At the time of its introduction, it was widely reported in the knife industry press that s30v was developed with input from chris reeve. Customer use of a material under development is an integral step in a materials development project. So, yes, crk did help develop the steel.

Cts, you are a trip.
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Dick Barber = Guy that spent thousands of hours in R&D to bring S30V to the market.


Chris Reeve = Guy (along with many others) that told Dick Barber what he "did and did not like about currently available materials."


Yeah, Chris Reeve helped develop S30V alright. Brownshoe, you are a trip.

Something else I find funny. You don't see Sal, Tom Mayo, Ernie Emerson, or anyone else in that list making the claim that they developed S30V.....wonder why? Maybe it's because they know they didn't.
 
CrimsonTideShooter said:
Well there you go, it's right there in black and white. Thanks for validating EXACTLY what I just said.


Dick Barber developed the steel, plain and simple. CRK along with many other makers told Dick Barber what they did and did not like. That is HARDLY having a hand in "developing S30V". If you see it as anything other than that then you're blinded by fanboyism. I'm failing to see how that quote does anything other than validate my statement. Lulz
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Ummm, what? You're reading it wrong. You stated that "Chris Reeve was not part of the development of S30V" and "Chris Reeve was one of few makers to first use the steel, and give his feedback" - as if to say that Chris Reeve came into the picture AFTER S30V was developed. That is not true. He was involved in the process from the beginning, it was Chris Reeve who initially approached Dick Barber of Crucible to develop a steel specifically for knives. The two of them collaborated to develop the steel and also asked other knifemakers for input.

A direct quote from the CRK website (http://www.chrisreeve.com/faq.htm#cpm)

CPM S30V and S35VN Stainless Steels were developed by Crucible Steel in Syracuse, New York. During 2001/2002, Chris worked with Crucible pursuing the challenge of creating a new blade steel specifically for the knife industry that was tough, corrosion resistant and readily workable. The product of their efforts was S30V, alloyed to accommodate these specific capabilities and manufactured to ensure clean, uniform steel.
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I don't think you understand what the word "develop" means? :confused:
 
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a direct quote from the crk website
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VS.

up until now i have be somewhat reluctant to post any discussions on forums such as this. I am dick barber and i developed s30v while at crucible. The development of this material was carefully considered and took many thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours of research and development time. Prior to embarking on this project i personally consulted many people in the knife industry to learn what they liked and did not like about the materials currently available in the market place. In addition to working closely with chris i also consulted makers like sal glesser, ernie emersion, tony marfione, phil wilson, bill harsey, mike jones, steve ingrim, tom mayo, jerry hossom and paul bos. I also met with hundreds of users at various knife shows on both coasts. The general consensus was as follows. The current top dog in the stainless knife world was bg42 and they wanted something that was more corrosion resistant, tougher and better edge retention than bg42. We used this as our benchmark as well as 154cm (bg 42 without the v additon) and 440c.

At this point it is important to understand that in alloy development when materials are evaluated the testing is done using standardized test methods and sample preperation. In this fashion you are comparing apples to apples so to speak. One proplem i have seen in knife postings in general is the lack of standardization in testing and the subjectivity of the evaluations. In evaluating edge retention the most scientific methods and disciplined approach i have seen was by sal glesser at spyderco. He has a standard blade design he calls a mule and will use that blade design to evaluate materials. Most of the other tests i have seen or heard about evaluate not only the material but also the edge design. Even with sample standardization you still have heat treat and fabrication variables to consider so it becomes very difficult for the layman to objectively evaluate a knife material.

Back to the alloy design question. One comment made during the data gathering phase of s30v's development really hit home with me. While talking with ernie emersion he said one thing "the knife can't break because if it does the wrong guy might die" i took this to heart and the manufactuing methods used make the s30v as tough as you can make a staniless steel which is capable of being used in the low hrc 60's and hold an edge. We were concerned with no only longitudional toughness but transverse as well. This is why we used the cpm process to get as close to homogenious properties as possible. 25 years of steelmaking experiance has told me that processing variables in steelmaking will have a big affect on end use properties.

With respect to corrosion resistance we looked at alloy balance and in particular some tricks that have been used in other stainless steel families to improve corrosion resistance and in additon to the common cr and mo alloying we also added nitrogen which not only improves pitting resistance but also heat treat response. This enabled us to greatly increase the breakdown potential in annodic polarzation testing versus our benchmark alloys.

With respect to edge retention replacement of mo and cr carbides with v carbides allows considerable abrasion resistance improvement which will show up in a controlled test such as the catra testing done by people like spyderco and benchmade.

Another consideration given was fabricability for the knife maker. Since many exotic alloys require extreme heat treatment cycles we had to be sure to design s30v so the average maker could use it. To this point i worked with paul bos to see what his capabilities were and we designed the alloy so paul could successfully heat treat blades with existing equipment.

One complaint which was made for some of the higher alloy materials like s90v was the difficulty in grinding and this was corrected by lower carbide volumes so the average maker could make a knife and still sell for a profit.

All in all many things were considered in alloy design and according to the objective testing which we and other people have done we were successful. It is important to remember that it is possible to create conditions where any manufactured item can fail. These can be through improper design, fabrication or use. When you need a hammer you should use a hammer and when you need a knife you should use a knife.

I hope this is a helpful post.
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Yeah, I'm just supposed to take Chris's word on that huh? I guess just like that time he said he recorded himself making 300 cuts into extension cord and the S35VN blade still shaved hair? Ankerson along with others called him on it, and we never saw the vid.

You guys have not only drank the cool aid, but you've become connesseuirs. I'm done arguing this pointless topic, especially since the quote proves me right. You CRK fan boys are on another level!


And no, I didn't mean to insinuate that Chris came after the fact. That was just a poorly constructed sentence.

The fact is, Dick Barber states that he started the development of the steel THEN consulted knife makers. Chris states that he commissioned Crucible to develop S30V. There are two conflicting stories here, and I'm prone to believe the guy from Crucible, especially since Chris has been caught in at least one "exaggeration" during my time on the forums.

Oldboy said:
Ummm, what? You're reading it wrong. You stated that "Chris Reeve was not part of the development of S30V" and "Chris Reeve was one of few makers to first use the steel, and give his feedback" - as if to say that Chris Reeve came into the picture AFTER S30V was developed. That is not true. He was involved in the process from the beginning, it was Chris Reeve who initially approached Dick Barber of Crucible to develop a steel specifically for knives. The two of them collaborated to develop the steel and also asked other knifemakers for input.

A direct quote from the CRK website (http://www.chrisreeve.com/faq.htm#cpm)



I don't think you understand what the word "develop" means? :confused:
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CrimsonTideShooter said:
Yeah, I'm just supposed to take Chris's word on that huh? I guess just like that time he said he recorded himself making 300 cuts into extension cord and the S35VN blade still shaved hair? Ankerson along with others called him on it, and we never saw the vid.

You guys have not only drank the cool aid, but you've become connesseuirs. I'm done arguing this pointless topic, especially since the quote proves me right. You CRK fan boys are on another level!


And no, I didn't mean to insinuate that Chris came after the fact. That was just a poorly constructed sentence.

The fact is, Dick Barber states that he started the development of the steel THEN consulted knife makers. Chris states that he commissioned Crucible to develop S30V. There are two conflicting stories here, and I'm prone to believe the guy from Crucible, especially since Chris has been caught in at least one "exaggeration" during my time on the forums.
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It just seems to me that you're calling into question how much input Chris Reeve actually had. Regardless of how much or how little, it doesn't change the fact that he WAS involved in the development of S30V.

Maybe someone should give Chris Reeve a call and get this thing straightened out, I'd rather not talk to him myself. I've heard the stories! :D
 
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