Bias Against 440C

Chiller2

Chiller2

Joined
Nov 30, 2006
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I don't know what it is but I seem to have a bias against 440C. I will see a knife for sale in the makers area and it's a beautiful blade but when I see the blade steel is 440C I totally lose interest.I guess to me it is about value. While 440C at least in my non expert opinion may perform at an acceptable level if heat treated right there are many more steels that will perform better for just a minor increase in cost. It's like paying $5 for a flank steak when I can have a Ribeye for $8.
So I guess the question is is my bias valid or not.Am I undervaluing 440C at a blade steel?
 
Steels like 440C and AUS8 are just plain outdated in the market, here. I'll occasionally buy a knife in those steels if I like a design enough, but I'm always a bit disappointed by edge retention and how marred the edge becomes if I cut through something tough or the edge comes into contact with a harder material accidentally. On the bright side, they are super easy to sharpen.

The way I see it, they are good steels for mid priced beaters, but good, expensive designs can really be brought down by them. There are several companies that have blades I'd like to try but haven't because I just don't want to pay $70+ for a knife that uses what I consider beater steel.
 
It is a steel that has been around forever. According to what I read, the latest greatest S30V is only 45% better in terms of edge retention. So 40 years of space age technology and you get the steel touted as best there ever has been and it is only 45% better than 440C. Something to think about.
 
45% sounds like a pretty good performance increase to me. I like to sharpen knives though, it relaxes me.
 
I only recently (in tha last two years) acquired knives made of the new wonder steels. Since I know how to sharpen a knife, 440 C or even 420HC works fine for me. Sometimes a steel can be too good. ATS-34 can be a bear to sharpen if you let it get really dull. Still, I appreciate the new steels, but if I see a knife I like and it is 440C, that doesn't stop me from gettig it.
 
IMO the bias is more rooted in having the "latest and greatest" than it is rooted in fact.

440C , Aus8, even Aus6 , 420HC , 440A - all are excellent steels.
Are the newer steels any better ?
I have read tons of threads from newer folks who did some reading on here and assumed the alpha numeric steels were best , went out and bought themselves a knife with those blade steels , only to discover they are a bitch to sharpen if you have little experience sharpening knives and , that is not meant as an offense towards anyone.
The above stated steels are great and have been for decades and decades.
Lastly the steel is not near as important as the makeup of the knife itself , what good is shmancy steel is the knife itself has a crappy lock , or poor design , or poor HT , etc etc.
 
Remember-Application. The right steel for the job. When done right, 440-C is a good steel especially for corrosion resistance.
Lycosa
 
440C is fine with me, and there are lot of 440A/440B/AUS6/420-whatever knives that I wish were 440C.
 
It's not that many years ago I got into collecting a variety of knives, and 440C was the wonder steel, ATS-34 was just coming in, available from a few custom makers. 440C is nothing like 440A, which in itself can be a decent working steel.

But a steel is only going to give you good performance with the right heat treat and blade geometry. And assessing 440C by what some cheap import says is 440C will also lead you astray, because it isn't.
 
440c is a fine steel for knives. There is nothing bad about it. It is good stainless, and makes a good blade material.
 
I bought some for a chef's knife/ paring knife combo I'd like to make...should I have gone with something else? I guess in the end it doesn't matter one way or another to me because I'll be sending it out for HT (not set up for stainless). What do you think guys? Am I gonna chip it if I hit bone? I don't mind sharpening and I'm getting better, but I don't want to do it every day. Thanks for the help.
 
Chiller2 said:
While 440C at least in my non expert opinion may perform at an acceptable level if heat treated right there are many more steels that will perform better for just a minor increase in cost.


So I guess the question is is my bias valid or not.Am I undervaluing 440C at a blade steel?
Click to expand...

To answer your question: Yes, you are way underestimating 440C. As with all steels (especially stainless) the heat treat is absolutely critical.
I clump stainless steels into three catigories:

Crap (400 series, 440A, AUS4, 420J, Surgical, etc.)
Decent (Buck's 420HC, Aus8, 13C26, etc.)
Premium (440C, N690, VG-10, S30V, 154CM, ETC.)

440C falls into my Premium catigory. I have owned and heavily used a few knives from Benchmade in 440C, and was nothing but impressed. The steel sharpens up far beyond where I can get S30V, and the sharpness potential is why I put 440C in the premium catigory. It is also very stainless, takes a very nice polished finish, sharpens easily, and holds an edge for as long as you would need in an EDC. If you know how to sharpen, I would recommend 440C as fast as I would recommend 154CM or N690.
 
440C is the least that I expect a good knife to be made out of. It is a good choice for chef's knives, easy to sharpen and better then average edge holding. My friend sells Cutco knives and he told me they are made from 440A. You can be sure 440C is a hell of alot better then 440A. I had some older BM's in 440C, they were fine.
 
My edc is a STR oupa in 440c, it replaced a sebenza! the slight loss in edge holding was fine because while the seb got small rust spots the oupa looks brand new!
 
I guess I will have to get me a quality piece of 440C and try it for myself. For the people comparing it to the new wonder steels I didn't see D2 mentioned also where do you rate it against the carbon steels such as 0-1 & 1095. I know it will be much more corrosion resistant but other than that how does it compare.

It is a steel that has been around forever. According to what I read, the latest greatest S30V is only 45% better in terms of edge retention. So 40 years of space age technology and you get the steel touted as best there ever has been and it is only 45% better than 440C. Something to think about.
Reply With Quote
Click to expand...
45% is a LOT of difference to me maybe you meant 4 to 5%?
 
Well the 440c in my ouparator is some prettty good stuff! The difference between STR's 440c and s30v is definitely less than 45%! But you must remember that the heat treat is the important factor! STR's 440c is ht to about 60rc., and is cryo treated as well!
 
There are a lot of nice knives that I wish were real 440C steel.
Click to expand...
Some that come to mind quickly:
- Buck's 110 and fixed blades.
- CRKT's Van Hoy and Ed Halligan designs
- Canal Street Cutlery Doctor's Knife and others ($100 for 420HC?!?)
- a few from Boker, Queen, and others.
 
Bob W said:
Some that come to mind quickly:
[...]
- a few from Boker, Queen, and others.
Click to expand...

I noticed that although the Boker Subcom & Trance folders are AUS8, the Subcom Fixed Blade is 440C. As a necker, up against the body, it would definitely benefit from the stainlessness of 440C ... but why did they beadblast it? :)
 
Chiller2 said:
45% is a LOT of difference to me maybe you meant 4 to 5%?
Click to expand...


Not when it comes to knife cutting. 45% is no big deal. Maybe to knife nuts like us, but not to any common knife user. If you could slice 200 slices of rope you might get 300 with S30V. If you can clean 200 with 440c fish you might clean 300 S 30V. If you can clean 4 deer with 440C you might get 6 with S30V. It's kind of moot if you know how to sharpen a knife at all. And to think, after 40 or more years, 440C still can hang.
 
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