Big Surprise Tonight

[Buckaholic]

Thank you for your post as well CJ Buck. I'm glad to see you here taking an active interest in this topic. Thank you as well for addressing the packaging issue. Properly and clearly marking which knives are U.S. made vs Chinese would go a long way to educating the consumer as to which product they are buying.

I'm distressed to learn that the cost savings is 30%. When you are talking about the cost of a car, that's quite a bit. When you are talking about a pocket knife, that's pretty small potatos. I'm disappointed to learn that when those costs are passed on, a few dollars is all it takes to sway an American consumer to purchase an inferior Chinese made product. If the two knives were side by side, I can't think of a single person I know who wouldn't opt for the American made product (if they knew where they each were made).

Gentleman, that is exactly the choice each of us Americans is going to have to make going forward if we want jobs for ourselves, children, and grandchildren. It will be many, many years (if ever) before the Chinese economy and way of life (inflation) drives their manufactoring prices up to equal ours. Considering each U.S. company has to deal with OSHA regulations, labor laws, the EPA and DEP, Healthcare, etc, etc. Even if China's inflation drives their prices up, there will be any number of underdeveloped countries chomping at the bit for a chance to take their place. Look closely at your next pair of shoes and see where they were made.

Food for thought men.

Scott

AMEN!!!
As I sit here day after day...and after 17 years with the same company, watching my fellow co-workers have there jobs shipped off-shore. It sucks having to worry after being loyal for so long to think that your friends are being cut and you have to fill out a form justifying why your specific position would not be suited for off shore support.
I took the form as more of a "what areas do we need to address to farm out this job to the lowest bidder".

 

[stockdog]

CJ

First a big thank you for Buck and doing all you can to bring Buck USA and the BCCI to all.
I have been wanting to ask you this for a while, looks like this is a good time. I grew up with Buck knives and am still using them at work and play. In the 70’s you went to the hardware or feed store to get new Buck’s now the problem is that it is difficult to fine the USA made Buck’s in a brick and mortar store, mail order is the only way I have found.
Why dose marketing not get Buck in to retail besides big box? Thanks Stockdog.

 

[Tanguay Custom Knives]

CJ

I grew up with Buck knives and am still using them at work and play. In the 70’s you went to the hardware or feed store to get new Buck’s now the problem is that it is difficult to fine the USA made Buck’s in a brick and mortar store, mail order is the only way I have found.
Why dose marketing not get Buck in to retail besides big box? Thanks Stockdog.

I'll ask the same question. I can't remember the last time I saw a genuine Buck Knife display in a hardware, feed and seed, general store, or even a gun shop. As a kid, I grew up staring into those dislay cases, dreaming of owning those knives. Today, they are nowhere to be found. What are the kids dreaming of today? I was just in the Hampden Hardware Store Friday picking up some caulk, and saw a glass knife display case. I went over to it, hoping for something good, but nope. Just more Chinese made knockoffs. The kid asked if I wanted to see anything. I just shook my head no, and walked away.

On a happy note, I just won a nice early 80's vintage 311 Trapper on Ebay last night. I paid alot more for it than I should have, but what the hell. Its a quality, AMERICAN MADE knife that I can pass on to my grandkids some day.

Scott

 

[Messersmith]

CJ

I have been wanting to ask you this for a while, looks like this is a good time. I grew up with Buck knives and am still using them at work and play. In the 70’s you went to the hardware or feed store to get new Buck’s now the problem is that it is difficult to fine the USA made Buck’s in a brick and mortar store, mail order is the only way I have found.
Why dose marketing not get Buck in to retail besides big box? Thanks Stockdog.

I'd like to have 25 cent gas and disco back again.... (sorry, couldn't resist )

Actually I was in 2 local sporting goods stores and 1 feed store on saturday and they all had a decent selection of US made knives.... Buck, Kershaw, Case and Schrade (old stock). Several of the Bucks I looked at were 2002 production (anvil stamp) so that tells me they have been in the store for a while. The Schrade display at the feed store looked like it stepped out of a mid 90's time warp. It was fully stocked but covered with dust and the owner couldn't find the key.

It looked like knives were not a hot seller at any of these establishments, for whatever reason. Maybe it's because so many folks are buying knives online or maybe the average knife buyer wants a knife for $19.99 and doesn't care where it's made?

 

[Stainz]

I was told that even the Spyderco knives at Wally World, like the S30V Native they carry for <$40, is made in the P.R.C. (Don't ever forget - China is a communist country. No one owns a plant or any of the equipment contained therein, much less has any personnel or operational control - except for the 'People's Republic of China'.). Oh... the Spyderco clearly states 'Golden CO USA Earth' on the blade - he was wrong.

Oddly, the tin box labelled "America's Original Buck 110 Commemorative Set", which I bought several of on closeout, has only a 'Tin Made in China' sticker on it's outter side. The nylon sheath has 'Sheath made in China' on it - the keychain is unlabelled. The important part - the ID marked 110 blade with USA on it. They were a steal - especially on closeout - $14 - or less, finally. It may be a 'global economy', but I'll keep buying American - as long as I can.

Stainz

PS MY favorite model trains - made in Germany by L.G.B. - went 'off shore' a few years back... and bankrupt this year.

 

[michcruiser60]

I was told that even the Spyderco knives at Wally World, like the S30V Native they carry for <$40, is made in the P.R.C. (Don't ever forget - China is a communist country. No one owns a plant or any of the equipment contained therein, much less has any personnel or operational control - except for the 'People's Republic of China'.).

Amen to that!! It's a good thing I can't find my soap box.

 

[STDK]

Very interesting thread here Gentlemen.

I have to say that having product made in China was one of the most difficult decisions we have ever made. We tested the waters by importing fillet knives from Taiwan. Our "american made" fillet knives were almost twice as expensive as what owned the market and the decision was eliminate fillets or import them.

The quality we got surprised us. We then experimented with other products mostly in our Outdoor Recreation lines.

When Schrade went bankrupt in 2004 we had a huge opportunity to give Walmart a vast quality improvement for less cost. We began bringing in slip joints from China. We deal with 7 factories that each specialize in certain designs. We bring in about 30% of our business from China and 70% we manufacture here in Idaho.

Our bottom line was that the quality had to be good enough for the buck name and our forever warranty. The only place our import products do not compete with our U.S. stuff is in the heat treat. You do get what you pay for.

Right now the extra business we get hitting lower price points that would be unavailable to us without importing "is" creating american jobs. We employed about 240 before we started importing from China and now we are 280 and growing.

My biggest concern is that Scott felt duped and suprised.

We have added American Flags on all US made product in our catalog and on our website to highlight them. I will have a discussion with Marketing on in-store packaging as well.

Thanks for the chance to address your disappointment.

Believe me when I say there would be no heartburn here if no imported knives existed and we could go back to just competing against other US or European companies.

Taiwan, Japan and Korea are no longer competitive with us in our newly relocated "lean" factory. Only China can land product for about 30% less then we can build it. We are watching all that is going on in China now with great interest. Either way you will always be able to find Buck Knives made right here in our own factory in Post Falls Idaho.

Hello Mr Buck,
Thanks for the very interesting information, but something that you say in the third paragraph just didnt sit right with me. In it you seem to imply that the Chinese made Bucks were of much better quality than that the Schradesthat Walmart peviously sold. Then in the next paragraph you say that the Chinese knives heat treatment is not up to the standards of your American made Bucks. If this is your contention I would have to respectfully disagree. Please clarify as I am nor trying to put words in your mouth, just trying to understand.

 

[Rocinante]

I don't suppose you're gonna get CJ or anybody to say that the Schrades were crappy knives toward the end.......but most left a lot to be desired.

I don't think Camillus was that great toward the end, either.

As damned expensive as they are, I rarely see a Case that looks good to me these days.......blades highly polished, thin and cheap looking.

The current Bucks from China are tougher and show more attention to fit and detail than any of these. I have a 382 trapper and it's as good or better than any Case, Camillus or Schrade slippy of the last 20 years or so.

I don't know about the heat treat, but it takes and holds a good edge.

As far as Buck goes, I have a feeling they'll be the last of the large companies that remains in business making a lot of knives in America and they now seem to be positioned to keep doing it for many, many years.

It should be said that one can get HIGH-QUALITY knives 30 percent cheaper from China.......and that's the way to do it......get their BEST.

Other companies choose to get low-quality knives 90 percent cheaper (or maybe, in some cases 1000 percent cheaper) from China.....and that's NOT the way to do it.

 

[plowboy]

It may be wrong, but I work very hard to try and avoid buying products made in China--and yes I'll pay alot more for a similar good if I can get US made. If we here in the US don't wake up and begin supporting our own brothers and sister who work hard manufacturing goods, we will eventually be sorry.

China is potentially a big threat...at least economically. I don't won't my kids to live under China's flag. Wake up.

 

[Rocinante]

Oh, I think most of us agree with that as a general rule, but there are exceptions.

For many years people did accept inferior products from American companies out of some sort of misguided loyalty.....all they accomplished was to encourage those American companies to prosper while selling junk.

Anyway, it's out of our hands now. The past is past and the future is coming fast.

Ain't nothing gonna take us back to the fifties......change or die.

Buck did a good job of changing in the best possible way, in my oh so humble opinion.

And we're quite awake, BTW.

 

[A.P.F.]

I appreciate the difficult decision that Buck made to contract out some of their product to China. In business, you remain competitive or die, that simple. I believe that Buck does it's best to keep as many jobs on this continent as possible. That said, I must echo Plowboy's sentiment towards China. I too will pay extra for a U.S. product over a Chinese product. Right or wrong, that is just the way it is.

 

[Stainz]

I didn't mind buying inexpensive items made in Taiwan - even if the quality was often times sun-par. I wouldn't even accept gifts from the PRC (Remember - China is the 'People's Republic of China' - still a communist country!) pre-9-11. They were decent allies then, so I moderated. Still, I am particular about my goodies going 'offshore'. This basically, I feel, was causal in the demise of a family business whose products I collected and used - the German-made 'Lehmann Gross Bahn', or L.G.B., model trains. These G-scale behomeths were very well-made - and pricey. They attempted to salvage their company by going 'offshore' - with some moderation in both price and quality. The whole philosophy in China revolves around their continued ownership of the factories and equipment - as well as having, for the most part, continued control over production and materials selection. Having nothing similar to our patent laws, they can be making your product for someone else next week, too. These 'opinions' are mine - from experiences others have related to me. I wish Buck the very best in producing a fine line of Bucks 'offshore' just keep the good ones over here! We will pay more for quality!

Stainz

 

[STDK]

I don't suppose you're gonna get CJ or anybody to say that the Schrades were crappy knives toward the end.......but most left a lot to be desired.

I don't think Camillus was that great toward the end, either.

As damned expensive as they are, I rarely see a Case that looks good to me these days.......blades highly polished, thin and cheap looking.

The current Bucks from China are tougher and show more attention to fit and detail than any of these. I have a 382 trapper and it's as good or better than any Case, Camillus or Schrade slippy of the last 20 years or so.

I don't know about the heat treat, but it takes and holds a good edge.

As far as Buck goes, I have a feeling they'll be the last of the large
companies that remains in business making a lot of knives in America and they now seem to be positioned to keep doing it for many, many years.

It should be said that one can get HIGH-QUALITY knives 30 percent cheaper from China.......and that's the way to do it......get their BEST.

Other companies choose to get low-quality knives 90 percent cheaper (or maybe, in some cases 1000 percent cheaper) from China.....and that's NOT the way to do it.

Rocinate,
Buck makes a fine knife, I love the ones I have (all USA). If CJ believes that the PRC knives are of better quality than the Schrades, personally I would not think any ill of him or the Buck company, But looking at it as buisness decision on whether to comment on my reply I believe your reply is the best answer. The importing issue seems to have a very decisive deviding line (For/Against). Count me in the Against column. I think I need a new 119.

 

[Buckaroo661]

Those 300 series knives that are in Wal Mart are sooo nice looking, I love the style, they're classic pocketknives. Unfortunately, I won't be buying one until they say USA on them. We (my wife and I) have tried to become more concious about product origin, it's not easy but we're trying to avoid China as well. I saw a brief story on TV about a family who tried to go a year without buying any Chinese products, I was hoping it would turn into a book and it appears it did:

http://www.amazon.com/Year-Without-Made-China-Adventure/dp/0470116137

 

[110 Dave]

i am one of bucks bigest chearleaders...
when i found out that buck did not make their own slip joints (years ago) i was hard struck over that... did not know what to think!!!
came to the thought that folding hunters and fixed blades were the main stay of the company...
when i bought a tawion buck i took it back...
i was given a slip joint as a gift and ,,,,
used it...still being used when handy...
bottom line i have watched other usa compaines go under
hardly davids are 40% non-usa! big Hondas are 99% usa parts
so it is quality that i can live with ...
i would rather see buck stay in busness with some imports ...
then go under with out..
i hear many scream over some slight mis match inlays in a 26$ 110 !!!
frankly i am amased that buck can sell to wally were they can sell a 110 at less then many make in two hr's !!!
i paid 12.50 or so for my first one as electrician helper
i made 1.25 and hr so it was over a days wages in 67..
i would say right on Buck ... for 1 days wages i can get one hell of a good looking buck knife!!!

i only wish they had made a slight change as to Buck world or internation... for a line...
and that way also had some made else ware like solgone germandy
or sheafield england or other out sorceing for a full world of quality knife makeing avabile from one supplyer!!!
but if wishes were horses beggers would ride...

 

[rdg]

Just curious, I've noticed a number of comments referring to the Bucks in Walmart and some saying they won't buy them because they are made in China. Those of you in this category - do you apply the same standard to other products you find in Walmart?
Bob

 

[vwb563]

i remember reading somewhere that buck was considering bringing all its production back to the usa. does anyone know if this is true? if it is true i think this would be outstanding and buck would become the "role-model company" for all others to follow!,,VWB.

 

[Rocinante]

Those kinds "role-model companies" have all followed each other into bankruptcy and ruin.

You can't turn back the hands of time, nor can you bend reality.

The fact that Buck is prospering and making a lot of knives in the U.S.A. is a miracle in itself, and a testimony to their excellent planning and preparation for the future.

 

[Messersmith]

i remember reading somewhere that buck was considering bringing all its production back to the usa. does anyone know if this is true? if it is true i think this would be outstanding and buck would become the "role-model company" for all others to follow!,,VWB.

I have not heard that, but it makes me think.... in a post above CJ said China can produce knives for 30% less than the good workers in Idaho. Only 30%. So if China can make a knife for $10 it would cost $13 for them to make it here. Doesn't seem like that big of a difference to me... I would gladly pay the extra few $$ to buy a US made knife.

RDG: just a clarification, many of the Bucks wally world carries are made in the USA (110, 112, 119, 655, Rush, etc). I do apply the same standards to things like knives, guns, tools, food and other things I place a high value on.

 

[plowboy]

Stop and consider this... and this ain't a knife....about two months ago I took a bottle of apple juice from the refrig and noticed it was made in China. It's the truth. I called my wife to the kitchen and we were both totally surprised.

Yep, apple juice from China. We better think about what we buy. And yes, I understand that some products coming out of China are quality. Then there are the others like dog treats, human foods with contaminats and Matel toys.

Think about it.