Bits Good vs. Worn

vcbvcbvcb said:
Ok ok, I'll at least start with a file. I get the feeling that Operator is a File-O-Phile.
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Be sure to let us know WHEN you switch to your belt sander. When you're in the shop, tediously rubbing your axe with a file, and your belt sander is sitting there mocking you, you'll think of me and begin to wonder what your time is really worth. And then you'll consider that your axe, every axe like it, and every other edge tool in the last century was sharpened and/or partially ground at the factory on a belt sander or grinding wheel, post heat treat. Then, when your files dull faster than a sanding belt, you'll begin to wonder why you spent perfectly good money on them. And finally, when your arms are jelly and your mind has begun to ponder the time you lost and will never get back, it will hit you, in a few more hours when you're almost done with your files, you still have to hit the stones.
 
You should write for "Blue Bloods". I'm already crying at the pain in my hands, superannuation has taken hold, and I haven't even started. In the event that I fall to the dark side, do you have a grit recommendation? I was thinking about 240 but they say the finer the grit the hotter the bit. Apparently, belts are available from 40-1000 grit. Aluminium oxide and ceramic. I know what superannuation means, but can't figure out the difference between pole and poll, go figure! My family tells me I can't pronounce "pin" and "pen" differently either.
 
Hahaha. Well I guess all kidding aside, if all you need to do is sharpen, you will probably do fine with your files. The bit on the axe pictured in this thread isn't like a rusted, blunt, axe shaped object with dents and pits in the edge. If that were the case I'd start with 36 and rock it until I formed a burr. The rest is personal preference. If you want to be able to comb your hair in the reflection then I dunno, you'll have to take a different approach. I suppose if I was feeling ambitious I would start at 36 and maybe finish at 220 - or whatever grits in that general vicinity.

However, for me the actual sharpening is done with stones. It's probably due to a lack of skill. Someone who puts edges on knives all day at a factory can probably make them scary sharp on a belt sander - I'm not that good and I imagine you'd want a fine belt. They probably also have wheels set up so they can do a lightening fast polish and jigs for controlling the angles and whatever else.
 
I've just reprofiled a new Hultafors 4lb felling axe. Stock removal took maybe an hour with the belt sander, starting at #36 Zirconium (wicked!), then 80 & 120 also in Zirc. Then moving to #180, #240 & #320 in Alox
(I'm wary of ceramic since one flavour in the kit (Dry Ice) leaves deep scratches.)

The edge never got too hot to touch. Bevels ended up c. half an inch wide. Of course you've got to want a Scandi grind or do a two step.
 
Do you know if Zirc is cooler than aluminium oxide? City is correct, I only have one head with a significant chip. Polls are the issue on the other ones, and their not bad.



 
In working with carbon steel I was taught that you can do anything as long as the steel doesn't turn blue (actually blue/gray). Over 3 reprofiles I've never got close.
 
Should add that one inmate here warns against grinding to the edge on fine abrasive.

At a guess the finer products are all alox that wear fairly fast and it would be easy to continue working with dull stuff, generating excess heat.
 
Ok, the belts I found run from 36 to 1000 grit. According to the other inmate, where does "fine" grit start?
 
Dunno. Some makers class #120 as fine. I'd say 180 or 240. Not an issue though if you leave a 1/16 for the steep micro bevel.
 
Right there with you square_peg. How are things in WA? I am missing Bellingham pretty bad right now living on the east coast.

If all you are trying to do is sharpen filing is very fast. I just bought two vintage Kelly perfects today one double bit and a single that had been salvaged from a barn. I file sharpened the double bit while watching TV in a half hour or less ( the rest of the time was spent cleaning up the handle.) this was freehand on my lap with a file and I haven't filed anything harder that a Kelly Perfect.

If you want to re-profile using a grinder makes since. The trick is don't grind heavy right up to the edge. Unless you have a wet grinder or new belts on a sander and really know how to use them edge grinding doesn't work well. If you stay about 3/16" back from the edge you are very unlikely to burn it. You can finish the last bit with a file and stone.
Right now I don't have my shop set up so I just use a 4.5" angle grinder. Use the coarsest grit flapper disk you can find to remove stock. Cool often. Then I use hook and loop scotch bright pads to blend and remove scratches going brown, red , green then I use a small cloth wheel with polishing compound to bring the cheeks to a mirror.

File a stone and strop to a razor edge. It should take about 45 min max if you are going to do everything. If you take the time to think through how its all going its really easy.
 
Good post, Skillgannon.

I was supposed to be in the Bellingham area (Bow, WA) today but our event was called due to weather. It's beautiful up there.
 
Apparently there is a "draw file" method and a "push file" method of sharpening. Any thoughts on which is best? I watched 2 videos of the draw file method and it looks like they use the same place, or nearly the same place on the file with very stroke. Doesn't this wear out one spot on the file pretty quickly? I am thinking about using different sizes of wooden balls as handles to vary the height of the angle of the file several times during a sharpening. That way I'd have to move the file lengthwise to maintain the angle I wanted, which would mean I'd use several spots on the file and spread out wear.
 
I push. Point the file toward a point at the center of the back of the eye with every stroke from every spot along the bit, heel to toe.
 
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