BK15 Observation

I've noticed that there are quite a bit of variables when it comes to Ka-bar's 1095cv. Love it, then it's crap. Same with their heat treat. Love it, then it's crap. They really need to work on their quality control. There is no consistency. I had a1/4" Potbelly that was too hard and broke, a BK5 that is perfect, a BK2 that is too soft, one BK11 that was a little too hard and the other perfect, and a BK15 that seems perfect but exceptionally resistant to rust and is possibly too hard...makes me wonder...what am I going to break next? Now I'm sure they are heat treating according to intended use but still, how do you break a 1/4" hard use knife with moderate use and why the hell is my BK15 so much different from my 11's and my 5? Screw the damn warranty. I want to buy a knife and never have to deal with sending it back. I want to know that when the SHTF that I can depend on that knife for 4 or 5 years before I need to replace it. Is Ka-bar's target market arm chair warriors? Is that who the legendary Ka-bar is making knives for these days? Some fat dude with a 100 pound 72 hour bag that plans to live in the woods when it goes down even though he hasn't been tent camping in 20 years? SCREW THAT.

I think their choices regarding blade design are pretty good but on the production end of things...man, they need to work on this. After working in quality control for years and using knives hard every day, it's hard to have respect for companies that are half-assing it. My most recent purchase is an ESEE 3 and although I really want a BK7, I might purchase an ESEE 6 next due to the inconsistencies with Ka-bar.

For the record, Ethan's designs are disgustingly real-world awesome. All of his knives I have purchased or used have a very real world purpose. I think Ka-bar needs to do credit to the line and fix their quality control. If they can't do that, time for the Becker line to find another manufacturer.

Just my 1st Ammendment 2 cents...sorry if I killed your buzz.

Survivormind
 
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These knives aren't hand made custom every inch perfect in any way and even with one of those you could get a aturd . Some of first Kabar Beckers I've bought could of had a sharpper edges but the heat treat has been good . Now they
and mean they all have had very sharp edges . Not show quality but nice enough to shave . I have a cabin we go to a lot love to make fires at night carve sticks make big wood to small wood show my Grand kids how to use knives it's fun . I must say I have not had not one problem with a Kaber Becker's steel . I chipped a Camillus Becker before a few days on the stone back to new . If you are having that much trouble why not send it back ? Bitching here won't fix your heat treat . I take my 7 and buzz all day threw logs and slice onions and tomatoes to have with burgers .
 
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Xr6x said:
These knives aren't hand made custom every inch perfect in any way and even with one of those you could get a turd . Some of first Kabar Beckers I've bought could of had a better edge I say that . But lately they and mean they all have had very sharp edges . Not show quality but nice enough to shave . I have a cabin we go to a lot love to make fires at night carve sticks make big wood to small wood show my Grand kids how to use knives it's fun . I must say I have not had not one problem with a Kaber Becker's steel . I chipped a Camillus Becker before a few days on the stone back to new . If you are having that much trouble why not send it back ? Bitching here won't fix your heat treat .
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I haven't held/used any Camillus produced Becker knives, but from what I understand they ran them a bit harder, and were more prone to breaking/chipping. Not saying it was common, but I do know that most of the photos you find online of broken BK9's are Camillus produced models. Anyway, just saying your chipped Camillus Becker might not be super unheard of is all.

And the cabin sounds great. My parents got a cabin when I was in my early 20's, and thats exactly what we use it for. Family reunions/etc, where everyone can enjoy the outdoors, some good food, and good company :thumbup:.
 
ocnLogan said:
In related news, if you ground it on a slack belt, wouldn't that mean it could have been slightly convex (the belt itself that is)? That would exacerbate the slight hollow grind, if the belt was slightly convex.
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You'd think but not really, it's still grinding at the two highest points of contact, which are the edge and top of the "saber" grind
 
Xr6x said:
These knives aren't hand made custom every inch perfect in any way and even with one of those you could get a aturd . Some of first Kabar Beckers I've bought could of had a sharpper edges but the heat treat has been good . Now they
and mean they all have had very sharp edges . Not show quality but nice enough to shave . I have a cabin we go to a lot love to make fires at night carve sticks make big wood to small wood show my Grand kids how to use knives it's fun . I must say I have not had not one problem with a Kaber Becker's steel . I chipped a Camillus Becker before a few days on the stone back to new . If you are having that much trouble why not send it back ? Bitching here won't fix your heat treat . I take my 7 and buzz all day threw logs and slice onions and tomatoes to have with burgers .
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I couldn't shave a pube with any of the Becker knives I've purchased right out of the box. Honestly, I'd have had more luck shaving my face with a can opener from Bed, Bath, and Beyond. I've found cheaper $2 knives at flee markets that were sharper out of the box. Just keeping it real. And it's not so easy as "send it back." Ka-bar's warranty has a little to be desired in my opinion or maybe I would.

I don't expect bitching to fix anything for me. I expect it to give other people one more opinion to consider before purchasing something their life may depend on. These Becker knives have a name. If Ka-bar's quality control is slipping, people ought to know and so should Ethan. My opinion isn't the end all be all. I'm just a guy that uses knives hard every day and I'm sharing my experience. Don't like it? Too bad. Spend your time on another thread.

Survivormind
 
I apologize in advance if this is a dumb question but what about removing the handle scales and holding the blade area in-line, longitudinally with a polishing wheel or some such device?
 
Survivormind said:
Don't like it? Too bad. Spend your time on another thread.

Survivormind
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I'd love to retort but the thread is titled "Observations", so you're well within your right and on topic. Is it possible to share these observations with a less aggressive tone. Plus, I think kabar literally owns the rights to Ethan's designs, not the other way around.

SALTY said:
I apologize in advance if this is a dumb question but what about removing the handle scales and holding the blade area in-line, longitudinally with a polishing wheel or some such device?
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Sounds intelligent, I'd try it but lose the coating under the handles.
 
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Hey Survivormind move forward with the esee and do your man scaping . If you like it you should apply for tv shows naked and afraid and Alone . That should prapair you for wtshtf .
 
Xr6x said:
Hey Survivormind move forward with the esee and do your man scaping . If you like it you should apply for tv shows naked and afraid and Alone . That should prapair you for wtshtf .
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I dont want any of that on my thread, pretty sure we're all adults
 
Interesting read, stvpourciau. I may have missed it, but what did you use to do the sanding? If you used a belt or any other abrasive that flexes? I'm pretty sure that result will always pop up, because the flexing surface of the abrasive will flex around the contours of the blade. I've held my 15 to a stone, just to make sure, and it's pretty flat. I'm not really noticing any hollowness, not even ever so slightly.
 
This thread brings up some good points. I've got a keen eye, and can spot fit/finish/symmetry really well, but heat treat is in the realm of voodoo, and only using and maybe abusing a blade over time will reveal if a blade hard, soft, or just right. Without playing Goldilocks and the Three Bears with each blade, is it possible to test blades with a harness tester? It would seem like a small divot under the scales wouldn't hurt anything, and if it's within whatever range of harness that's deemed "ideal," then it should be good to go right?

Another question. Given the average Beckerhead's propensity for stripping and modding, how big of a deal would it be to send off a pile of BKs to have them heat-treated again, by someone who can keep a close eye on the process and guarantee perfect results? The alloy and grind stay the same, so in theory a blade can be heat treated and annealed over and over until it's perfect, can't it. I'm not saying this is ideal, but I've got very strong feelings about the ergonomics and function of the various BK models------------------something I don't feel about certain other brands-------------so a few extra dollars invested in having my own "batch" of blades handled by an expert would still be within budget, and probably not exceed the list price of that other brand with it's "famous heat treat." I also read on another thread that a 1095 heat treat really isn't that tricky, so if Kabar is building some that are out of specs, it's probably because they're cranking them out too quickly, not because it's too complicated to do correctly.

Thoughts?
 
52100 said:
This thread brings up some good points. I've got a keen eye, and can spot fit/finish/symmetry really well, but heat treat is in the realm of voodoo, and only using and maybe abusing a blade over time will reveal if a blade hard, soft, or just right. Without playing Goldilocks and the Three Bears with each blade, is it possible to test blades with a harness tester? It would seem like a small divot under the scales wouldn't hurt anything, and if it's within whatever range of harness that's deemed "ideal," then it should be good to go right?

Another question. Given the average Beckerhead's propensity for stripping and modding, how big of a deal would it be to send off a pile of BKs to have them heat-treated again, by someone who can keep a close eye on the process and guarantee perfect results? The alloy and grind stay the same, so in theory a blade can be heat treated and annealed over and over until it's perfect, can't it. I'm not saying this is ideal, but I've got very strong feelings about the ergonomics and function of the various BK models------------------something I don't feel about certain other brands-------------so a few extra dollars invested in having my own "batch" of blades handled by an expert would still be within budget, and probably not exceed the list price of that other brand with it's "famous heat treat." I also read on another thread that a 1095 heat treat really isn't that tricky, so if Kabar is building some that are out of specs, it's probably because they're cranking them out too quickly, not because it's too complicated to do correctly.

Thoughts?
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For myself, putting a knife through its paces every day for about 3 months, much of it hard use, is the best way to see if I'm happy with the heat treat. Also, I think it's fair to point out that just because I've seen quit a bit of inconsistencies regarding Ka-bar knives doesn't mean they are out of spec as far as Ka-bar is concerned.

I'm not sure what it would cost to have someone heat treat all of my knives over again but to me, this is just one of those things that shouldn't have to be done when we are buying knives made in America by a reputable company. The fact that they've started having quite a bit of their offerings manufactured in Taiwan is a hint to me that quality isn't their number one concern. I'd happily pay an extra $5 or $10 a knife for a product that to me was more consistent.

Survivormind
 
Survivormind said:
For myself, putting a knife through its paces every day for about 3 months, much of it hard use, is the best way to see if I'm happy with the heat treat. Also, I think it's fair to point out that just because I've seen quit a bit of inconsistencies regarding Ka-bar knives doesn't mean they are out of spec as far as Ka-bar is concerned.

I'm not sure what it would cost to have someone heat treat all of my knives over again but to me, this is just one of those things that shouldn't have to be done when we are buying knives made in America by a reputable company. The fact that they've started having quite a bit of their offerings manufactured in Taiwan is a hint to me that quality isn't their number one concern. I'd happily pay an extra $5 or $10 a knife for a product that to me was more consistent.

Survivormind
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I can't argue with anything you posted, other than what I bolded. I've read this sentiment about Taiwan before, an it's an unfounded bias IMO. Taiwan is NOT the same country as China, and do not hold the same philosophies/policies/outlook on life. A knife from Taiwan does not necessarily equate to a lesser quality product, and Kabar could very well be using Taiwan because they need to keep production levels up and can't exclusively use US labor while keeping their CQ where they expect it to be. Just a guess because I'm not looped in with anyone at Kabar.
 
Hey Survivormind,

Have you contacted KA-BAR and voiced your concerns?
 
52100 said:
I can't argue with anything you posted, other than what I bolded. I've read this sentiment about Taiwan before, an it's an unfounded bias IMO. Taiwan is NOT the same country as China, and do not hold the same philosophies/policies/outlook on life. A knife from Taiwan does not necessarily equate to a lesser quality product, and Kabar could very well be using Taiwan because they need to keep production levels up and can't exclusively use US labor while keeping their CQ where they expect it to be. Just a guess because I'm not looped in with anyone at Kabar.
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I agree with what was said here. Taiwan seems to be in a different ballpark than china.

Also its worth noting that Kabar has moved production of some blades in Taiwan back to the US . For instance, the whole ZK lineup at one point was made in Taiwan, now almost all of them have been made in the states for the past few years (all but the mini one IIRC). I can't say that I've followed their more recent releases, but off the top of my head the ones that I can remember are in the US as well (Snody series, the EK series).

But yeah, I'm all for letting kabar know if there is a problem with QC. I wouldn't want them to let things slip, as then I wouldn't feel good about recommending them to others :thumbup:.

And Galeocerdoshark, that's exactly what I thought I was trying to explain, so thanks for doing it better than I did :). Grinding on a slack belt will make it pull away and grind more on the spine/shoulders and the edge, if anything, which could make the grind look "more" hollow than if the grinding was done on a stone.
 
The Taiwanese knives are amazing, I prefer many of them and their steel (not truly 1080) to the American Cro-Van ones
 
Galeocerdoshark said:
Interesting read, stvpourciau. I may have missed it, but what did you use to do the sanding? If you used a belt or any other abrasive that flexes? I'm pretty sure that result will always pop up, because the flexing surface of the abrasive will flex around the contours of the blade. I've held my 15 to a stone, just to make sure, and it's pretty flat. I'm not really noticing any hollowness, not even ever so slightly.
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Yes, I used ken onion Work Sharp, it flexes and convexes the edge. That's interesting but for there to be contours to the blade, means that they have to be high points and the ones that sit lower are just that, hollow.

Otherwise I'd end up with a convexed blade, like an axe or khukri.
 
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