BK4 Default handles

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caine

caine

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So a few months ago I got this awesome knife and added great 710 sheath also TKC handles and thought wow it looks great. Not so much when I use it. I love TKC handles on my 15,16,and 17 but for this chopper they are to thin and hurt my pinky when chopping. So I will save these handles for my 5 when it arrives and went back to the factory handles with SS fittings. Adding micarta later

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You might wanna give a second chance on the TKC scales but adding liners, I think for the 4 I actually do prefer it a bit thicker and would go for 2 layers of liner material.


However those scales are quite gorgeous!
 
I have those exact scales coming for my BK21 right now. I have small hands though so they should be perfect. I love them on my Izula 2. I am going to get the compact ones for my Esee 4 as well. Great scales.

I suggest you add liners as well if you need more girth for your large hands. Anything is better then the stock nylon ones imo. Plus, I think it is more the design of the end of the handle that hurts the pinky because many people complain about that with the stockers too. The thinner scales are likely just exaggerating it because you cant grip it as well with your large hands.

Awesome setup by the way:thumbup:
 
I think the stock Grivory are the best on the market for actual hand comfort when chopping.
 
tobiism said:
I think the stock Grivory are the best on the market for actual hand comfort when chopping.
Click to expand...

It is probably just the smooth texture you like as it helps with minimizing hotspots during extended chopping(it doesnt matter much for shorter periods imo). It also hinders grip though so it is a trade off. I bet if they made smooth G10 ones in the same dimensions you would like them just as much or better(probably better because the bolts would be flush if designed like the TKC ones).

Kabar uses nylon because it is cheap to produce and in turn increases profit as well as allows them to sell them at a lower price point. This is also why they use bolts and nuts instead of the standard symmetrical bolt and sleeve/insert system. G10, CF, and Micarta are all superior materials in almost every way. That's why they are used on pretty much all of the higher end knives.

Myself, I hate the stock ones. I think they make the knifes look and feel cheap. I would by a Bear Grylls blade if I wanted those qualities in a knife lol.
 
I have med/LG hands and I love the stock scales. Can't recall any pinky complaints off hand. I use a 3 finger grip when chopping though, with the butt end in my palm. I guess if I were to really get on it I'd use a full grip but rarely do I hit full force. I prefer more controlled chops and or snap cuts even if it takes longer. Lessons learned from near misses and good luck to still have flesh and bone intact on my legs lol.
 
Tachead7075 said:
It is probably just the smooth texture you like as it helps with minimizing hotspots during extended chopping(it doesnt matter much for shorter periods imo). It also hinders grip though so it is a trade off. I bet if they made smooth G10 ones in the same dimensions you would like them just as much or better(probably better because the bolts would be flush if designed like the TKC ones).

Kabar uses nylon because it is cheap to produce and in turn increases profit as well as allows them to sell them at a lower price point. This is also why they use bolts and nuts instead of the standard symmetrical bolt and sleeve/insert system. G10, CF, and Micarta are all superior materials in almost every way. That's why they are used on pretty much all of the higher end knives.

Myself, I hate the stock ones. I think they make the knifes look and feel cheap. I would by a Bear Grylls blade if I wanted those qualities in a knife lol.
Click to expand...


Brace yourself, serious statement coming up-
You ready?!?

I've never had a problem with the grip on grivory. And thats with actual use, not just holding it at my desk. Never once. Nope, never happened.

As for the cost aspect:

If their price point was higher, than I could see how the use of nylon and nuts/bolts would increase their profits. But its not, its lower. The use of these materials is not to increase profit, its to maintain profit.

Also, I'm not actually sure any of those other materials are superior in "almost every way". Seriously, in what way are any of those materials better? Look up what grivory actually is and I think you'll be impressed.
Polyphthalamide
 
My Dear Mr. Tachead.....

I would like you to know that I went to a lot of trouble to make the most hand friendly of scales..... They do make crappy safe queens but I am not in the safe queen business...... The stock 66 series Nylon used in our grips make for a rugged and comfortable grip..... The shape I gave them allows for a secure grip without danger of slippage and permits long sessions of use or short ones to be blister and hotspot free..... I know you are, as I am, a fan of ESSE and Shon's work and I really only get in pissing matches with them over a beer and when it is all in fun..... I have been reading your posts over the last few days and I really am beginning to resent your constantly referring to Beckers and Ka-Bars as cheap......Inexpensive - yes, Excellent value- yes.... Cheap- no.... I will put up our Cro-Van, as we heat treat it against any 1095 around and the comfort and durability of our nylon scales is reflected in the almost zero returns for screwed up grips........ I like Micarta, I think it is a lovely material and durable as all get out..... I have it on several of my Beckers and on many other blades that I own..... You are correct that Micarta does significantly raise the price point but, how much does it really add to the blades utility..... Only you can make that determination but almost all my users retain the stock nylon.... It works better and is more comfortable in my hand.....

All Best....

Ethan Becker
 
I really love the feel of the micarta. G10 just feels plasicy to me. Carbon fiber? No thanks. As for higher end knives, they just use the trendy higher cost materials to stay in that "high end" category. IMO it's a mind game and marketing ploy for trendy Knife buyers. A Lexus is a Toyota, not at all worth twice the price but people will pay it for status. Would they buy a Lexus with cloth seats? Cloth is great, comfortable, and easy to maintain.
 
tobiism said:
Brace yourself, serious statement coming up-
You ready?!?

I've never had a problem with the grip on grivory. And thats with actual use, not just holding it at my desk. Never once. Nope, never happened.

As for the cost aspect:

If their price point was higher, than I could see how the use of nylon and nuts/bolts would increase their profits. But its not, its lower. The use of these materials is not to increase profit, its to maintain profit.

Also, I'm not actually sure any of those other materials are superior in "almost every way". Seriously, in what way are any of those materials better? Look up what grivory actually is and I think you'll be impressed.
Polyphthalamide
Click to expand...

I didnt say there was a large issue with grip but they have no texture so the grip could be better and is better with other scales. The handles are also well designed(thanks Mr. Becker:thumbup:) and have a hump at either side to help with retention. Unfortunately this hump at the end of the handle is also part of what causes the pinky issue that is often described. Glad to hear you use your BK's:thumbup:

Lower then what? Really, neither of us really knows how much a use of different material would affect profit.

They are stronger, have more dent and scratch resistance(especially G10 & CF), have much better heat resistance, are less slippery when wet, exc. I know exactly what Grivory is I have actually made other kinds of nylon in chemistry years ago. They dont specify what kind of PPA they use either as it can vary a lot depending on what it is mixed with(glass fiber, CF, exc. in different amounts).

It is definitely one of the cheapest materials used for knife scales. Either way, I am not a fan of it as a handle material. You are and that's ok:thumbup:
 
Tachead7075 said:
I didnt say there was a large issue with grip but they have no texture so the grip could be better and is better with other scales. The handles are also well designed(thanks Mr. Becker:thumbup:) and have a hump at either side to help with retention. Unfortunately this hump at the end of the handle is also part of what causes the pinky issue that is often described. Glad to hear you use your BK's:thumbup:

Lower then what? Really, neither of us really knows how much a use of different material would affect profit.

They are stronger, have more dent and scratch resistance(especially G10 & CF), have much better heat resistance, are less slippery when wet, exc. I know exactly what Grivory is I have actually made other kinds of nylon in chemistry years ago. They dont specify what kind of PPA they use either as it can vary a lot depending on what it is mixed with(glass fiber, CF, exc. in different amounts).

It is definitely one of the cheapest materials used for knife scales. Either way, I am not a fan of it as a handle material. You are and that's ok:thumbup:
Click to expand...

Watch this... really. Then ask, "why use any other material for any reason?" It's pointless, and a down-grade. These scales are the best. Hands down.
https://youtu.be/Y20v5elRJes
 
Ethan makes good handles.

i've bought (or acquired) third party / after market stuff and even the various manufacturer's offerings over the year...

almost all but a small handful have stock handles. they work.
 
Ethan Becker said:
My Dear Mr. Tachead.....

I would like you to know that I went to a lot of trouble to make the most hand friendly of scales..... They do make crappy safe queens but I am not in the safe queen business...... The stock 66 series Nylon used in our grips make for a rugged and comfortable grip..... The shape I gave them allows for a secure grip without danger of slippage and permits long sessions of use or short ones to be blister and hotspot free..... I know you are, as I am, a fan of ESSE and Shon's work and I really only get in pissing matches with them over a beer and when it is all in fun..... I have been reading your posts over the last few days and I really am beginning to resent your constantly referring to Beckers and Ka-Bars as cheap......Inexpensive - yes, Excellent value- yes.... Cheap- no.... I will put up our Cro-Van, as we heat treat it against any 1095 around and the comfort and durability of our nylon scales is reflected in the almost zero returns for screwed up grips........ I like Micarta, I think it is a lovely material and durable as all get out..... I have it on several of my Beckers and on many other blades that I own..... You are correct that Micarta does significantly raise the price point but, how much does it really add to the blades utility..... Only you can make that determination but almost all my users retain the stock nylon.... It works better and is more comfortable in my hand.....

All Best....

Ethan Becker
Click to expand...

I like your designs a lot Mr. Becker(knives and handles) and think Kabar's 1095 CV is good stuff(for carbon steel anyway). I also dont think Kabar/Beckers are "cheap" but, they are built to a lower price point and certain things suffer because of that. I am a fan of the knives(although think their QA/QC could really use some fine tuning) but, I am not a fan of their sheaths or choice in handle materials. It is a personal preference thing and a look and feel thing too. I just prefer my knives to have scales made of high end materials because I like the look, feel, and added durability and prefer my sheaths to be made of custom fit Kydex/Boltron for added comfort and ease of use. We all have our preferences and luckily the aftermarket is there to tailor to them in case the production choices dont suit you. I will say though that this is part of the reason I dont by many Kabar/Beckers. By the time I add aftermarket scales, aftermarket sheaths, and pay to ship all three of them I could have had a much higher end knife(although not necessarily a better design) made with better steel. I do have a nice new BK21 sitting in front of me right now though so sometimes they are still worth it to me and I do buy them.

The bottom line is I do really like your designs and appreciate everything you do for the community Mr Becker. My preferences just dont always match up with the production choices and I am not a big fan of Kabar's QA/QC. I personally think that some other manufacturers could do a better job with your designs and I would be willing to pay more for that but, that's just my opinion and I know you have a good recipe here for many people. Please dont feel resentment because I think you are one of the best designers in the business. I wont lie though, I would love to see a high end version of one, or more, of your designs with all the bells and whistles: G10 or CF, or Micarta, Boltron, high quality leather, and a perfectly ground big ole slab of CPM 3V maybe. One can dream:D
 
Becker handles not durable? what?

seriously, if you can break those handles, you've done something horrible wrong, that would also probably break other handles. while we've seen some knives break over the decades, i think i can recall two sets of handle breaks. someone had a FIRE, and the other guy was attempting a bad baton "straight into a tree"...

i don't like the sheaths on a lot of knives, well, when they COME with sheaths (a lot of knives don't), but the old Eagle sheaths were the bomb, and the new ones are darn close. no worries though, you aren't paying for a sheath, given the price point.

it's impossible to satisfy every customer on the choice of accoutrements. some people want other things. so, with Becker, you get to do that, at the same time, you get the minimums.

i simple don't understand companies that sell knives without even a decent cardboard sleeve ;)

as well, there are a lot of people that like the stock stuff, and if you have enough of it, will buy/trade you for it. there's never a loss there.
 
CM_Rick said:
Watch this... really. Then ask, "why use any other material for any reason?" It's pointless, and a down-grade. These scales are the best. Hands down.
https://youtu.be/Y20v5elRJes
Click to expand...

That's your opinion and I accept that.

Just to play devils advocate, run another test for me. Chop two BK4's(one with stock scales one with G10 scales) into two separate chopping blocks near your few hour old campfire. Next, knock said blade scales against the hot rocks around the fire and pull them both away after 15 seconds or so. Let me know how they compare. Alternatively, look up the terms thermoset and thermoplastic.

This is only one example of the disadvantages of Polyamides.

Everyone has their own personal preferences, needs, wants, hand sizes/shapes, opinions, as well as uses. There is no right answer, only the one that you choose and makes you happy.
 
Bladite said:
Becker handles not durable? what?

seriously, if you can break those handles, you've done something horrible wrong, that would also probably break other handles. while we've seen some knives break over the decades, i think i can recall two sets of handle breaks. someone had a FIRE, and the other guy was attempting a bad baton "straight into a tree"...

i don't like the sheaths on a lot of knives, well, when they COME with sheaths (a lot of knives don't), but the old Eagle sheaths were the bomb, and the new ones are darn close. no worries though, you aren't paying for a sheath, given the price point.

it's impossible to satisfy every customer on the choice of accoutrements. some people want other things. so, with Becker, you get to do that, at the same time, you get the minimums.

i simple don't understand companies that sell knives without even a decent cardboard sleeve ;)

as well, there are a lot of people that like the stock stuff, and if you have enough of it, will buy/trade you for it. there's never a loss there.
Click to expand...

No one said they weren't durable.
 
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