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well, you did.
better steel? higher end knife? you make me laugh.
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BK4 Default handles
- Thread starter caine
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well, you did.
better steel? higher end knife? you make me laugh.
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Sorry not trying to be too negative. I just said I dont like the stock scales and people jumped on me so I gave some reasons why. I've just been in to Kabar/Beckers lately and tend to constructively criticize the things I buy. People tend to be overly defensive when you criticize their favorite brand but, I think constructive criticism is a good thing and can help bring improvement. YMMV.
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I said "added durability" not that it was not durable you quoted it yourself. There are many materials that offer higher durability then polyamide.
There are many "better" (higher end) steels available for this application. 1095 is used because of its cost/performance ratio and to hit a certain price point(medium in this case).
Kabar/Beckers are a mid grade brand. There are many "higher end options" available but, they are a good value for sure.
I akm glad I make you laugh. laughter is good for the soul they say
Kabar/Beckers a
No reason to ever touch hot rocks with knife handles... ever. So, I'm not seeing a point here. My point was simple. The stock scales work exactly the way knife handles should. But, hey... people want what they want. I'll just be truthful at this point. I think TKC scales suck... BAD. The fit is terrible, the texturing looks/feels so so, and the price is just stupid. But, if that crap is your thing, by all means go for it. Please, do me (and a few others) a huge favor. Please stop talking down about stock Beckers. You might not think you are, but it is so. You don't care for the fit/finish. You don't care for the coating. And, you don't care for the nylon scales. Didn't you say you don't even like 1095CroVan? Not sure what you do like about Beckers... the fact that they work, maybe? Us Beckerheads buy our Beckers to actually use them. REAL USE proves that Beckers are the best damned production knives money can buy. You should've expected to get these kinds of replies after being a little too negative. Now is the time to heed these words, "post less, and read more." Take a break from banter. Go use your Becker for a loooonnnggg time while reading here on the forum. Then, tell us if you still feel the same way. You won't know until you give these knives a fair chance. Changing scales, and mods in right out of the box is not the way to go. I will say this, at least your conversation is on the intelligent side. Give your Becker a chance to prove itself to you. And one more thing, arguments don't go far here, because we've heard it all before, and no one ever changes our minds. It's useless to even try.
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Accidents happen. I wasnt suggesting you leave a blade in the fire. You dont chop wood near your campfire? You dont think there is a chance it could come into contact with something hot? It was simply one example of why polyamide is less durable then other materials not an argument. Its only an argument to you because you are getting defensive and cant take constructive criticism and/or dont accept others opinions/personal preferences.
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I said "added durability" not that it was not durable you quoted it yourself. There are many materials that offer higher durability then polyamide.
There are many "better" (higher end) steels available for this application. 1095 is used because of its cost/performance ratio and to hit a certain price point(medium in this case).
Kabar/Beckers are a mid grade brand. There are many "higher end options" available but, they are a good value for sure.
I akm glad I make you laugh. laughter is good for the soul they say
Kabar/Beckers a
the noted implication is they are default and cheap and not durable.
"higher end steels". that doesn't MEAN anything you know. more than a few companies use 1095[cv] and it's a GREAT steel for the job, ESSE is fond of it, as are a lot of people.
"weird" steels like s35v? or 51200, or 5160, or others? they have their selling points. none of them are "better" than the others.
it's got iron, it's steel. steel is known thing these days. not many surprises. the industry has pretty much cranked through most of the combinations already. the biggest deal is heat treat, and how hard can you go (or want to go).
crystalline metals, like titanium? surprises may happen.
weird stuff, like Stellite (and its cousin), tungstens, and all that? yeah, pretty stuff stuff. again, not necessarily better, or worse. it's all context. some people hate them. can't be field sharpened. most people can't sharpen them at home even.
ceramics? interesting times.
now, if someone comes up with a spectacular breakthrough? we'll see. material sciences in some regards are a very slow area now. we've actually gotten pretty good at making some great stuff.
maybe we can mix some exotics, like osmium with titanium and a smidge of tungstens, and have a blade that never dulls. or maybe we get some expensive failures
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that's just stupidity and abuse.
glass reinforced polymers are rather tough.
G10 burns just fine if you try hard
Was thinking the same thing. Sounds like gubmint reasoning.
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No, I don't do that. That's stupidity. I guess if you chop wood on top of a fire then toss you're Blade down that's your choice. If you're buying "higher end " knives then I really can't understand why you'd even think about that happening. I keep my stuff safe, more importantly I keep myself and others safe making sure they get back in their sheaths on my hip or ANYWHERE away from a fire. I've never had that happen, seen or even heard of that...
You're grasping at straws here lol
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the noted implication is they are default and cheap and not durable.
"higher end steels". that doesn't MEAN anything you know. more than a few companies use 1095[cv] and it's a GREAT steel for the job, ESSE is fond of it, as are a lot of people.
"weird" steels like s35v? or 51200, or 5160, or others? they have their selling points. none of them are "better" than the others.
it's got iron, it's steel. steel is known thing these days. not many surprises. the industry has pretty much cranked through most of the combinations already. the biggest deal is heat treat, and how hard can you go (or want to go).
crystalline metals, like titanium? surprises may happen.
weird stuff, like Stellite (and its cousin), tungstens, and all that? yeah, pretty stuff stuff. again, not necessarily better, or worse. it's all context. some people hate them. can't be field sharpened. most people can't sharpen them at home even.
ceramics? interesting times.
now, if someone comes up with a spectacular breakthrough? we'll see. material sciences in some regards are a very slow area now. we've actually gotten pretty good at making some great stuff.
maybe we can mix some exotics, like osmium with titanium and a smidge of tungstens, and have a blade that never dulls. or maybe we get some expensive failures
They are cheap compared to other materials and less durable. I dont like them and you do, we are all entitled to our opinions man.
Yes it does. I still like 1095 a lot though. It is a great steel and has a great cost/performance ratio, one of the best really.
Steels like CPM 3V, Uddeholm Vanadis 4 Extra, exc. They are much tougher and hold an edge much longer. These are qualities that are desirable for uses like this. The reason they are less used is simple... cost.
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This is the issue, you didn't come in and "constructively criticize" the Becker knives. You came in saying they aren't as good as Esee knives, and you prefer Esee knives, and you have to change them to be more like Esee knives...
Now, most of the people on here are pretty level headed, and in fact have left you alone for the most part about it. However Ethan's handles ARE more comfortable than Esee's (and yes I have a bunch of Esee knives as well.) Esee's handles tend to be blocky and cumbersome. To that end, even Esee has started changing their handle designs (bringing in other designers i.e. James Gibson and Reuben) and have been listening to customer feedback with the HM 3 and 4, removing the choil and rounding the handles.
On the other hand, Ethan's handles, the only real complaint people have is "Well, they are slippery" which has been proven repeatedly to not be true. Yes, the handles are made out of grivory, but THEY WORK. Yes they could be made out of a more "high end" material, but why bother? Yes the 1095 is not a "high end" steel, but again IT WORKS so why change it?
As for Ka-Bar's QC/QA compared to Rowen's... It's like comparing Audi to Lamborghini. It isn't a fair comparison. You're talking a massive massive produced operation vs a much smaller operation. So yes Rowen is of course going to have tighter tolerances. If you look at the numbers though, the amount of knives that break or are returned to Ka-Bar is a VERY minimal percentage.
Basically though, what you need to understand is you came into Ethan's house and basically just threw an egg in his face. Just be mindful of how you say what you want to say and I do believe you could fit in just fine here.
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It's not just about the scales - it's been the value, the quality, the fit and finish, the speculated price of future knives that the manufacturer said won't be made, etc, etc.
Sometimes you try to throw some positive stuff in there when you are directly addressing Ethan; but it does little to dull the overall effect.
It's easy to come off as more negative than one intends, especially when posting in multiple threads. I've done it myself while I was trying to sort out my feelings about a particular knife. One of the best things about this forum is sense of community. We all have different knives, and we all accept/understand that our interests and tastes can be different. Speaking for myself, I couldn't name my favorite brand...and I'd be hard pressed to label a given knife as my favorite, at least without a bunch of qualifying statements.
If I were to make a suggestion, it would be the same one Ethan made. Use the knives. Compare them, in use, to other knives. Experience the good, not so good, and even the bad.
One of the benefits of these knives of the value. They may not be perfect; but they're meant to be used, and early will the imperfections affect use. (Sometimes you'll get an uneven grind, or particularly poor edge - but they're knives...we sharpen them anyway (though I agree one shouldn't have to sharpen or reprofile a new knife to make it useable, but I've experienced that with far more expensive knives)).
Anyway, I understand that you're just trying to participate. It just got to a point where I felt compelled to comment.
Sometimes you try to throw some positive stuff in there when you are directly addressing Ethan; but it does little to dull the overall effect.
It's easy to come off as more negative than one intends, especially when posting in multiple threads. I've done it myself while I was trying to sort out my feelings about a particular knife. One of the best things about this forum is sense of community. We all have different knives, and we all accept/understand that our interests and tastes can be different. Speaking for myself, I couldn't name my favorite brand...and I'd be hard pressed to label a given knife as my favorite, at least without a bunch of qualifying statements.
If I were to make a suggestion, it would be the same one Ethan made. Use the knives. Compare them, in use, to other knives. Experience the good, not so good, and even the bad.
One of the benefits of these knives of the value. They may not be perfect; but they're meant to be used, and early will the imperfections affect use. (Sometimes you'll get an uneven grind, or particularly poor edge - but they're knives...we sharpen them anyway (though I agree one shouldn't have to sharpen or reprofile a new knife to make it useable, but I've experienced that with far more expensive knives)).
Anyway, I understand that you're just trying to participate. It just got to a point where I felt compelled to comment.
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Your just being ridiculous now. I take good care of my stuff too. The fact is other materials are more durable then polyamide in heat resistance, scratch resistance, dent resistance, exc. They also look better imo. Its your choice if you want or need that. Just like it is mine. Just respect others personal opinions and choices man. I didnt say you are an idiot because you like Grivory. I am ok with you liking it. As long as your happy all is well:thumbup:
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my "edc" Becker was made in the very early 80s...
the handle material is Estaloc. it's not even glass filled nylon, or the Hylon they use now...
2016 - 1983 (could be earlier!) === 33 years.
that's right. i'm using a *33 year old knife*. stock handles. stock sheath.
knife still has original coating even (parkerized++).
pretty much nobody is running with a 30++ year old knife as their main camping buddy.
durable?
yup...
i've been brutal to this knife. i WAS worried it might fail. so i bought a dozen and more just like it
that dozen barely gets to see free air, let alone light. still works.
if you melt your shit in a fire, you were stupid. just move on.
the handle material is Estaloc. it's not even glass filled nylon, or the Hylon they use now...
2016 - 1983 (could be earlier!) === 33 years.
that's right. i'm using a *33 year old knife*. stock handles. stock sheath.
knife still has original coating even (parkerized++).
pretty much nobody is running with a 30++ year old knife as their main camping buddy.
durable?
yup...
i've been brutal to this knife. i WAS worried it might fail. so i bought a dozen and more just like it
that dozen barely gets to see free air, let alone light. still works.
if you melt your shit in a fire, you were stupid. just move on.
Go buy customs, then. Nobody uses that stuff in production aside from folders. And good luck with that.
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I said that Esee's have a better fit and finish not that they are better. I actually like Becker's designs better, especially the handles. The steel seems about equal so far from what I have seen.
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as for the durability of the product, if you have a genuine failure, KaBar and/or Ethan will take care of you.
if you were a dumbass and abused the product, and the story was REALLY GOOD, sometimes they take care of you.
y'all long timers know the history, but the newbs don't seem to realize, that in 35+ years (has it been that long?), not many Becker knive have FAILED. pretty damn few. they've been pushed to and past extremes, and done well.
there have been some QC issues in the last few years, and afaik, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM, was taken care of, quickly, and cheerfully. hard to complain about that.
we've had a few people abuse them. grind them up, hit them with hammers. that's up to KaBar.
ESSE has a collection of knives that were DELIBERATELY damaged. they love it. someone buy a garage sale special, then kills the knife in their shoppe to get a new MSRP valued knife (and probably flips it). ESEE often replaces it, but will probably tell the customer some choice words.
when was the last time you bought a quality product, with a great guarantee, production made, at any given box store, and when you had a problem, the maker went out of their way to help you out? yeah, it happens. it's becoming more rare though.
here, we have a chance to work with the maker and/or designer directly. you don't get that nearly anywhere else in "the real world"...
if you were a dumbass and abused the product, and the story was REALLY GOOD, sometimes they take care of you.
y'all long timers know the history, but the newbs don't seem to realize, that in 35+ years (has it been that long?), not many Becker knive have FAILED. pretty damn few. they've been pushed to and past extremes, and done well.
there have been some QC issues in the last few years, and afaik, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM, was taken care of, quickly, and cheerfully. hard to complain about that.
we've had a few people abuse them. grind them up, hit them with hammers. that's up to KaBar.
ESSE has a collection of knives that were DELIBERATELY damaged. they love it. someone buy a garage sale special, then kills the knife in their shoppe to get a new MSRP valued knife (and probably flips it). ESEE often replaces it, but will probably tell the customer some choice words.
when was the last time you bought a quality product, with a great guarantee, production made, at any given box store, and when you had a problem, the maker went out of their way to help you out? yeah, it happens. it's becoming more rare though.
here, we have a chance to work with the maker and/or designer directly. you don't get that nearly anywhere else in "the real world"...
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