BK9 vs SP10 for EDC in the truck

Well I think I made the right choice in the BK9. The question was which knife is more well rounded. I don't need the guard of the SP10. A guy who swaps handles for better grip isn't playing with Legos either. I'm sure the SP10 is a great knife, but i don't need the fighter properties.
 
Sosa said:
Well I think I made the right choice in the BK9. The question was which knife is more well rounded. I don't need the guard of the SP10. A guy who swaps handles for better grip isn't playing with Legos either. I'm sure the SP10 is a great knife, but i don't need the fighter properties.
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As long as you are happy with it, id call that a win :).

And personally I found I really like my BK9 much better with handle liners, as it really made the handle fill my palm much better. You can make some out of old DVD cases if you find yourself interested.
 
You made a good choice as both are winners.

Lets see some pictures when you get it please.

Good luck.
 
Sure thing. I got some time to burn and will take it to the bay and put a hurt on some driftwood.:D
 
Oh, I just barely noticed you're in the bay area too. I could have let you check out the 9 before you bought it.

And also, I'm not too sure what people will think if you just start going nuts on some driftwood on the bay. I'm not 100% sure, but I believe any fixed blade is legal to carry as long as it is not concealed, but id want to be 100% sure before I started hacking away with my 9 in public. Just a thought. People just seem far more skittish around here than anywhere else I've lived :(.
 
No worries. I set up a target to throw knives at this spot I fish at. The joggers jog faster. That's about it haha.
 
Alright, I havnt been able to get out much. Mother Nature is trying to end our drought. Here's a cabin fever pic.
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Good call. the 9 is a performer.
 
My vote goes for the SP-10. I've had mine for many years and it would be my first choice for stuck in the woods survival. This is just my opinion but to me any knife that is used for serious survival/social work needs to have a guard. The SP-10 protects the hand with it's large double guard. Becker, Busse, Survive, ESEE, etc. all have dropped this all important feature of the serious use large knife and in my opinion it has far more to do with ease of manufacture and cost as it does function. Good knives with a double guard a expensive and difficult to make. Look at the Randall model 1. This is the reference standard for survival/combat knives. And don't forget "Survival" might just mean combat in one way or another. IMO a true survival knife must also be a fighter. One of the very few true issue survival knives is the Ontario ASEC and it also has a double guard as did the original pilot survival knife.
 
droptrd said:
how bout the SP50 or SP51? IMO theyre closer to the BK9
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I am going to get a lot of feed back for saying this but the SP50 and SP51 are made of 5160 and in my opinion 5160 is not meant for a true survival knife.

5160 is traditionally a sword steel and for a reason. It is meant to distort before breaking as where a survival knife made of 1095 will chop right through something before distorting like 5160 will. The reason you see a lot of small chips on the edge of some 5160 steel survival knives is because the heat treat is too much for a softer steel so it is now brittle. 5160 in my opinion is not suppose to be at 56 to 58 RC like 1095 is. They do harden it to 58 to 63 RC for springs but not a cutting edge.

Will 5160 work? Yes if you are not being too rough with it but saw down a couple of trees and start de-branching trees with a knife made of 5160 steel and notice how before your shelter is finished the steel is sometimes distorted. Not something I want in a real survival knife.

If I was in a jungle with soft limbs to chop I may be ok with 5160 but not in the woods of North America.

One of the reasons I like the SP10 a little better than the BK9 is because if I am in a survival situation and I am sawing down trees and de-branching them with my chopper knife I feel that after 2 weeks of shelter building my SP10 will still be going while the BK9 has hit its stress limit and while chopping a branch it will break with a loud chinggg. I want a knife for the long haul and not for a few days.
 
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Doesn't the BK 9 have a skeletonized handle/tang like the other Beckers? Not an engineer but I don't get this at all in a large chopper. Weight savings at the expense of strength in a knife that most people are going to beat the hell out of.
 
Being that I have a Bk9, Sp10, Sp5, and RTAK II on hand, and that I am preparing to do a comparison between them, after doing an individual review on each of them, I feel I am in a good position to give some advice, although I see you have already made your choice.
Keeping this thread between the Bk9 and the Sp10, I recommend the Bk9 hands down. I believe that the tip is stronger on the Bk9, and I also believe that the handle is stronger. Although the handle on the bk9 is skeletonized, it doesn't not have any sharp transitions between blade and tang, which the hidden tang design of the sp10 requires.
The Sp10 is heavy. HEAVY HHEEAAVVYY!!! I normally don't care about that, but in reality, when comparing these two blades, I do not believe it gives the Sp10 any particular advantage over the Bk9, not even when chopping.
The Sp10 is made, in my opinion, to look cool. And let me tell you what, it looks cool. REALLY cool. But I have some issues with it. The tip is thin, and the guard will always be in your way for bushcrafting work. Not only that, but it makes the weight of the blade feel... off. I think that this knife would be a lot better without it honestly.
Then you have the Ontario handle. Although I do actually like it, it doesn't dampen vibration as well as say, the Sp5. I believe the Sp10 is a bit more knife than the handle design can really take, in current form. That part is simply my opinion. The Sp5 doesn't have as much power as the Sp10, but it dampens vibrations much better, and is lighter weight, so I actually think that it is a better chopper for long term use.
Furthermore, the hidden tangs used on the Ontarios can come loose. Not only have I heard of it happening, but it happened to me, on an Sp5. I don't like that. What can come loose on an exposed tang that is bolted on? The bolts? Replace them if they are lost from a hardware store, or tie them together. 550 cord wrap it. do you you have to do. It will be a lot easier than repairing a stick tang.
Both companies have a great warranty, so no worries there.
If money is a problem, which it is for most of us, and you can't afford the Becker unit, I would honestly suggest the Sp5 over the Sp10 for a user. It might be less intimidating, but hey, you wave either in my face and I am going to be thinking about secondary plans. And on that note, being that the Sp5 is more nimble and light weight, even without the guard, it still may be a better fighter. I am no expert on that, but why else have a sharpened clip (which the Sp10 doesn't have... thank goodness)
All in all, the Sp5 is an awesome bang for the buck. I would suggest it over the Sp10, or any other knife in its price range. If you can afford it, I would go to the Becker Bk9. If the Becker doesn't suit your fancy, I would look at the RTAK II. (and some sand paper, those giant grips need to be fit to your hand and the blade as they are over sized!)
 
TheJeepster said:
I am going to get a lot of feed back for saying this but the SP50 and SP51 are made of 5160 and in my opinion 5160 is not meant for a true survival knife.

5160 is traditionally a sword steel and for a reason. It is meant to distort before breaking as where a survival knife made of 1095 will chop right through something before distorting like 5160 will. The reason you see a lot of small chips on the edge of some 5160 steel survival knives is because the heat treat is to much for a softer steel so it is now brittle. 5160 in my opinion is not suppose to be at 56 to 58 RC like 1095 is. They do harden it to 58 to 63 RC for springs but not a cutting edge.

Will 5160 work? Yes if you are not being too rough with it but saw down a couple of trees and start de-branching trees with a knife made of 5160 steel and notice how before your shelter is finished the steel is sometimes distorted. Not something I want in a real survival knife.

If I was in a jungle with soft limbs to chop I may be ok with 5160 but not in the woods of North America.

One of the reasons I like the SP10 a little better than the BK9 is because if I am in a survival situation and I am sawing down trees and de-branching them with my chopper knife I feel that after 2 weeks of shelter building my SP10 will still be going while the BK9 has hit its stress limit and while chopping a branch it will break with a loud chinggg. I want a knife for the long haul and not for a few days.
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5160 is a tougher steel than 1095, which is why it is commonly used on larger knives and swords. This helps it deform and not break when subjected to large impacts or forces. Running a steel softer makes it tougher, and more malleable, not more brittle. Brittleness comes from (among many other things) being very hard. Knives that are too hard (and used hard) will "chip" rather than "dent". Chips being where metal broke off, and there are pieces missing, and dents are where the steel gave, that you just need to push back into alignment. That said, I have no idea why Ontario runs their 5160 so soft (52-54 iirc), which to me is contributing to the "distortion" that you are talking about, which will for sure effect the edge holding.

The upside is that something that soft should be nice and easy to sharpen (like most machetes, which are run soft for the same reason, because they're frequently hitting rocks, chainlink fence, etc) :).

Also... Did you have a bad experience with the BK9? I know you prefer the SP10, but I just wonder what makes you say you feel like the BK9 will "break with a loud chinggg". I certainly don't know everything about knives, or about everything that have happened to them. But since I've been on Bladeforums, I've only heard of one BK9 breaking. And... it broke in the middle of the blade (just forward of the thumb ramp) due to a bad HT and probably part of the old roll stamping process. I'm sure there are more out there, but I personally would not be afraid of it just snapping outright (other than the chance for bad heat treat/ quality control that is inherent in any production blade).

I have no problem with the BK9 not being your favorite knife (or anyone elses for that matter), but I feel confident in saying that it won't just snap on you any more than any other knife would (because of material flaws). And I feel like saying it would is a bit over the top is all.

crom said:
Doesn't the BK 9 have a skeletonized handle/tang like the other Beckers? Not an engineer but I don't get this at all in a large chopper. Weight savings at the expense of strength in a knife that most people are going to beat the hell out of.
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For what its worth, the Beckers don't have skeletonized tangs for weight savings, its actually to get the balance point how Ethan likes it. He likes each blade to have a forward balance, and that helps him achieve that goal.

*crom, this is not entirely directed at you, I've just seen this one a few times recently, so I'm just venting :p.*
<rant>
Also, this topic has come up a lot lately, and I'm honestly really confused by it. I see no reason why a properly designed skeletonized tang should be feared. There have been failures on them yes, but like before, I've heard of exactly one of those (not saying there are not more out there, just saying its not frequent at all), and that one was... also by a bad HT. And I know I keep saying that, but there is a statistical percentage chance that a product misses its quality control checks and makes it out into the wild defective. Its a chance that is taken by everyone everyday in some way or another (be it cars, computers, knives, appliances, etc), that something will have either a manufacturers defect, or a materials defect. This is why warranties exist, to cover those types of things. With the number of Becker knives out there in the wild, and only hearing of a few, the percentage that actually break has got to be extremely low.

I think the point I'm trying to make is that while a solid tang might be stronger, a well done skeletonized tang is more than strong enough for the type of use it was designed for.

TLDR:
When I hear people say that the skeletonized tang worries them, It sounds like someone saying "I'm worried about how I-Beams are missing whole chunks of the sides, its probably not strong enough to build with".
</rant>

Anyway, to each his own. I'm no expert, and am willing to be corrected on any of the above, but as of right now I feel like I've got the main parts sorted out :).
 
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If I'm doing that stuff, Ill usually have a Lagavulin, or a Laphroiag cask strength! On the other side , I have a BK9 with the micarta handle, its a great blade, I just hate how small the grind on the edge is, they could back it up at no costs, and don't give me that rust crap, just take care of it, it'll do fine.
 
ocnLogan said:
5160 is a tougher steel than 1095,
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But I do not always want tougher. Sometimes a knife needs to be more strong than tuff.

To me the balance of tougher vs stronger is a better balance in 1095 and why it was traditionally a better knife steel and 5160 a better sword steel.

Tough just means it will bend before it breaks. If I am chopping all day and my 5160 knife bends or distorts at level 7 but my 1095 steel will not bend at all but chip out at level 11 then I am going 1095 as it will last longer under hard conditions.
 
ocnLogan said:
5160 is a tougher steel than 1095, which is why it is commonly used on larger knives and swords. This helps it deform and not break when subjected to large impacts or forces. Running a steel softer makes it tougher, and more malleable, not more brittle. Brittleness comes from (among many other things) being very hard. Knives that are too hard (and used hard) will "chip" rather than "dent". Chips being where metal broke off, and there are pieces missing, and dents are where the steel gave, that you just need to push back into alignment. That said, I have no idea why Ontario runs their 5160 so soft (52-54 iirc), which to me is contributing to the "distortion" that you are talking about, which will for sure effect the edge holding.

The upside is that something that soft should be nice and easy to sharpen (like most machetes, which are run soft for the same reason, because they're frequently hitting rocks, chainlink fence, etc) :).

Also... Did you have a bad experience with the BK9? I know you prefer the SP10, but I just wonder what makes you say you feel like the BK9 will "break with a loud chinggg". I certainly don't know everything about knives, or about everything that have happened to them. But since I've been on Bladeforums, I've only heard of one BK9 breaking. And... it broke in the middle of the blade (just forward of the thumb ramp) due to a bad HT and probably part of the old roll stamping process. I'm sure there are more out there, but I personally would not be afraid of it just snapping outright (other than the chance for bad heat treat/ quality control that is inherent in any production blade).

I have no problem with the BK9 not being your favorite knife (or anyone elses for that matter), but I feel confident in saying that it won't just snap on you any more than any other knife would (because of material flaws). And I feel like saying it would is a bit over the top is all.
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I agree with you the BK-9 is a very good knife (much better than most of the stuff out there in fact, especially the sharpness), I just object cosmetically to the blade being slightly curved to the right on mine, a flaw that just feels cheap... The sheath is excellent and one of the best out there in my opinion, as is the remarkable initial sharpness, particularly for a big knife: I have no problems with this knife for daily non-survival use. It is a bit thin for its size I feel: This offers gains in weight, and the broad blade keeps the balance point well forward, which is good for chopping, but the combination of hard steel and thin blade with stress rising thumb ramp means you do have to be careful...

Its 1095 is easy to sharpen and is remarkably good in edge-holding, but this comes at a cost: The thumb ramp creates a stress point it seems, so if you really go hard on it it cannot be considered as tough as some of the other big knives (love the point geometry though). I agree with you about the skelettonized handle, and would extend this to stick tangs as well: Once and for all, Knives will most likely break in the blade, which is why all the talk about good hollow handles being weak was such nonsense: Most quality hollow handles will never break anywhere near the tang... But the BK-9 does break, even in hard but non-abusive work, and usually near the same place you mentionned:

Sam Wilson said:
I agree with Stabman, the BK9 would be my top choice probably, in that price and size range. Simply a fantastic knife. I am going to add these pics, though, not to disagree, or disparage Becker, because they are a fine company, and Mr. Ethan Becker is a great guy and provides a great product. But simply to point out that sometimes bad things happen to any knife, and I would be more concerned with how I use it, than finding an "indestructible knife." That's just my outlook on it, though.

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Don't abuse the knife, and you've got a much better chance of it lasting forever. Just my .02.

Sam :thumbup:
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I don't think it is a bad knife at all, but a stick tang (to reduce hand vibrations and weight), a more flowing thumb ramp outline, with much smaller jimping, and ensuring it has a straight blade, would all work wonders for it.

Gaston
 
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