Les Robertson
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 10, 1998
- Messages
- 3,565
Hi David,
Exactly right. This is the collector mindset.
The business side of custom knives is not as cut throat as you think.
Primarily because the vast majority of those involved are not full time and as such are not as competitive or "cut throat" as you think.
Most of the makers out there build less than 75 knives a year.
Most of the dealers out there chase after the same 25 - 30 makers as they know they can turn them for a profit very quickly.
Did they threaten you with physical Violence? Did they constantly call and harass you wanting your knives at below market price?
The reason you (and others) often times find this to be a bad proposition is because the price they are offering for your knives.
I have always said that if you don't do your homework in the primary market..you will get "Schooled" in the aftermarket. That is to say you will find out what the knife you bought is really worth.
Even if you are in a bind...why would you sell your knives to these vile creatures? Oh that's right...because they will pay you for them.
Remember overpaying for a knife or being in a bind does not mean that the dealer has to give you more for the knife.
Here are couple of "Dealer Secrets" for you to consider.
1) We know you are coming to us after you have shopped the knife around and found no takers. If the knife was made by a "hot" maker you would merely post it on one of the for sale forums and it would be gone.
2) We won't pay a collector more than we would pay for the knife directly from the maker. From purely a business perspective it makes no sense to do that.
3) Once you sell the knife to the dealer, it is the dealer that now assumes all the risk with regards to selling that knife.
4) Dealers have more Capital and Day-to-Day Operating expenses than you do.
5) The majority of a dealers sales are paid for with a credit card (deduct 3-5% from the sale price)
I don't work on big margins. I refer you back to the Time Value of Money strategy.
I don't do this mainly for Fun. This is strictly a business. Not to say that I don't enjoy my work. I spend time with my family for fun, I SCUBA dive for fun, I play poker for fun...you get the idea.
I do however buy and sell a lot of knives.
I have to disagree with you on this. I think if you went back over the last 10 years and looked at the makers I recommended in those articles. You will find most of them still around and doing very well.
David, who would you have the magazines ask about the current status of the custom knife market and who the hot makers are?
One of my favorite writers for Blade Magazine is Mike Haskew...great writer..good knowledge of the custom knife market. Mike has a group of go to guys/gals he uses when writing an article. Writers are generally hired because they are excellent writers...not because they are subject matter experts.
This is not to say they cannot become Subject Matter Experts. Take Bruce Voyles and BR Hughes for example. I enjoy reading anything they write about. They are excellent writers and subject matter experts...a rare combination in any field.
Our own Roger Pinnock is becoming quite the celebrity in his own right. Roger knows what he is talking about and is a very good writer. I enjoy his articles as well.
I ended up writing for Blade after a conversation with it's editor Steve Shackelford. My point was that the magazine had great writers. However, their knowledge of the custom knife market was lacking. Steve asked me if I thought I could do better. Writing no...insight into the custom knife market...Yes.
Shortly there after I was approached by Bruce Voyles to write for Knives Illustrated.
Both Steve and Bruce are very gracious regarding my articles as I realize that I am not a very good writer.
The best compliment I ever received was from Daniel Winkler who told me (Im paraphrasing here) If I didn't know you were a dealer I would not be able to tell that from your articles. You present the facts and let the readers make up their mind.
The magazines ask for two different styles of articles. I use my articles in KI to introduce new makers or lesser known makers to a wider audience. Often times the articles I write for Blade, while they include lesser known makers. They will just as easily give me an assignment on a well known maker. Take the current issue of Blade I wrote an article on Larry Newton...the maker whose folder won Best Folder of Show at the 2008 Blade Show.
The great thing about your business is that you can do whatever you want with it. If the maker wants to give 40% that is his prerogative.
If you paid the dealer what you would have paid the maker...why did you dump the knives?
What was the "Dumb Mistake"? The maker giving 40% or you dumping the knives?
Go figure...investors in custom knives. Something that is shunned by those "in the know" on this forum
What exactly is your issue with this? I take it these are full grown men or women. Who are not having their personal safety or that of their family being threatened?
What this dealer is doing is taking advantage of what you wrote earlier:
He is using a sound business practice of utilizing OPM (Other People's Money).
In the real world these are often times referred to as "Venture Capitalists".
So this dealer gets collectors such as yourself to pay a deposit on future knives that he promises to give you a "forever price" which is of course artificially inflated.
The dealer knows that prices are coming down in the after market, which will allow them to pick up knives for less than he was paying a year or two ago. While at the same time offering to sell the knives to his customers at his currently inflated prices.
The question to be asked is will he buy them back for that price in the future?
Even Loveless knives have seen a down turn in the after market prices (with some exceptions). This down turn will continue after Bob dies and the Faux Loveless knives produced over the last 25 years will not keep pace with the knives actually made by Bob Loveless. An example of this would be the Lile Knives and the Lile knives with the "dot" over the "i".
The knives that Jimmy made have held their value and continued to go up.
The other Lile's made after Jimmy's death...not so much.
Anyway, you seem to have a problem with this...or did I misread you?
Exactly right. This is the collector mindset.
The business side of custom knives is not as cut throat as you think.
Primarily because the vast majority of those involved are not full time and as such are not as competitive or "cut throat" as you think.
Most of the makers out there build less than 75 knives a year.
Most of the dealers out there chase after the same 25 - 30 makers as they know they can turn them for a profit very quickly.
Did they threaten you with physical Violence? Did they constantly call and harass you wanting your knives at below market price?
The reason you (and others) often times find this to be a bad proposition is because the price they are offering for your knives.
I have always said that if you don't do your homework in the primary market..you will get "Schooled" in the aftermarket. That is to say you will find out what the knife you bought is really worth.
Even if you are in a bind...why would you sell your knives to these vile creatures? Oh that's right...because they will pay you for them.
Remember overpaying for a knife or being in a bind does not mean that the dealer has to give you more for the knife.
Here are couple of "Dealer Secrets" for you to consider.
1) We know you are coming to us after you have shopped the knife around and found no takers. If the knife was made by a "hot" maker you would merely post it on one of the for sale forums and it would be gone.
2) We won't pay a collector more than we would pay for the knife directly from the maker. From purely a business perspective it makes no sense to do that.
3) Once you sell the knife to the dealer, it is the dealer that now assumes all the risk with regards to selling that knife.
4) Dealers have more Capital and Day-to-Day Operating expenses than you do.
5) The majority of a dealers sales are paid for with a credit card (deduct 3-5% from the sale price)
I don't work on big margins. I refer you back to the Time Value of Money strategy.
I don't do this mainly for Fun. This is strictly a business. Not to say that I don't enjoy my work. I spend time with my family for fun, I SCUBA dive for fun, I play poker for fun...you get the idea.
I do however buy and sell a lot of knives.
I have to disagree with you on this. I think if you went back over the last 10 years and looked at the makers I recommended in those articles. You will find most of them still around and doing very well.
David, who would you have the magazines ask about the current status of the custom knife market and who the hot makers are?
One of my favorite writers for Blade Magazine is Mike Haskew...great writer..good knowledge of the custom knife market. Mike has a group of go to guys/gals he uses when writing an article. Writers are generally hired because they are excellent writers...not because they are subject matter experts.
This is not to say they cannot become Subject Matter Experts. Take Bruce Voyles and BR Hughes for example. I enjoy reading anything they write about. They are excellent writers and subject matter experts...a rare combination in any field.
Our own Roger Pinnock is becoming quite the celebrity in his own right. Roger knows what he is talking about and is a very good writer. I enjoy his articles as well.
I ended up writing for Blade after a conversation with it's editor Steve Shackelford. My point was that the magazine had great writers. However, their knowledge of the custom knife market was lacking. Steve asked me if I thought I could do better. Writing no...insight into the custom knife market...Yes.
Shortly there after I was approached by Bruce Voyles to write for Knives Illustrated.
Both Steve and Bruce are very gracious regarding my articles as I realize that I am not a very good writer.
The best compliment I ever received was from Daniel Winkler who told me (Im paraphrasing here) If I didn't know you were a dealer I would not be able to tell that from your articles. You present the facts and let the readers make up their mind.
The magazines ask for two different styles of articles. I use my articles in KI to introduce new makers or lesser known makers to a wider audience. Often times the articles I write for Blade, while they include lesser known makers. They will just as easily give me an assignment on a well known maker. Take the current issue of Blade I wrote an article on Larry Newton...the maker whose folder won Best Folder of Show at the 2008 Blade Show.
The great thing about your business is that you can do whatever you want with it. If the maker wants to give 40% that is his prerogative.
If you paid the dealer what you would have paid the maker...why did you dump the knives?
What was the "Dumb Mistake"? The maker giving 40% or you dumping the knives?
Go figure...investors in custom knives. Something that is shunned by those "in the know" on this forum
What exactly is your issue with this? I take it these are full grown men or women. Who are not having their personal safety or that of their family being threatened?
What this dealer is doing is taking advantage of what you wrote earlier:
He is using a sound business practice of utilizing OPM (Other People's Money).
In the real world these are often times referred to as "Venture Capitalists".
So this dealer gets collectors such as yourself to pay a deposit on future knives that he promises to give you a "forever price" which is of course artificially inflated.
The dealer knows that prices are coming down in the after market, which will allow them to pick up knives for less than he was paying a year or two ago. While at the same time offering to sell the knives to his customers at his currently inflated prices.
The question to be asked is will he buy them back for that price in the future?
Even Loveless knives have seen a down turn in the after market prices (with some exceptions). This down turn will continue after Bob dies and the Faux Loveless knives produced over the last 25 years will not keep pace with the knives actually made by Bob Loveless. An example of this would be the Lile Knives and the Lile knives with the "dot" over the "i".
The knives that Jimmy made have held their value and continued to go up.
The other Lile's made after Jimmy's death...not so much.
Anyway, you seem to have a problem with this...or did I misread you?
"I'm not a crook" 
