Blade steel, it's all good.

S

smcjoecohen@yahoo

Joined
Nov 22, 2011
Messages
515
My 440c knife cuts things just like the S30v, or elmax, or cpm154. It makes so little difference. Maybe the elmax is easier to sharpen, and maybe the s30v stays sharp a little longer, but the difference is negligible. If you know how to sharpen a knife even cheap steel will work as well as any. I love shapening my knives, It's no chore to me. Even if I was stranded in the woods I always wear a belt, that's enough to get a knife razor sharp, a flat stone from a river works if you need to remove some steel. Steel only matters in your head.
 
And a Yugo will get you to Wall-Mart as well as a Mercedes....
Here we go.
 
smcjoecohen@yahoo said:
Steel only matters in your head.
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For people who only cut paper yea... If you used your knife, and I mean really USED it. This wouldnt even be an argument right now. And not everyone has a way to sharpen a knife when it dulls in the field, so they give us steels like M390 :D
If you still think its all in my head, just call me crazy then! Thats half the fun of knives for me!
1badcj_7
 
So you're trying to make the blanket statement that the difference in 440C and high end steels like CPM-154 is "negligible?"

You know what that tells me? You've never used a high end steel in such a way that you can benefit from the composition or hardness of that steel. Grab some ZDP-189, or some M390 (or anything else similar), then grab some 440C or AUS8 - make 400 cuts into some cardboard. Examine the 440C along with the ZDP or M390, THEN try to tell us that the difference is negligible.
 
That's cool, you buy all the 440C knives and we'll buy the ones with the good stuff. That way, everyone's happy. ;)
 
smcjoecohen@yahoo said:
Steel only matters in your head.
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Entirely untrue. And I say that as a non-steel junkie AUS-8 lover. The many properties of steels are measurable and quantifiable. They are not just made up. They are science. They are real.

I find AUS-8 one of several steels that are really sufficient for my needs. But I'm not going to deny that there are actual, physical differences between steels.

That would be like saying atoms only matter in your head.
 
well tell that to the one whose hunting in Alaska and skinning a thousand pound elk the steel dose matter.
 
Smokinape said:
For safe queen knives it doesn't matter...
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I was reading a thread elsewhere on this forum about Randall knives and someone said that "for all we know they stopped heat treating them years ago, since nobody actually uses them anymore". I think there are some people that still use them but even though he was making a joke his point is still somewhat valid. How would most people know how they perform for cutting since they are rarely used for that.

I've bought a lot of custom hunting knives with the intention of not using them, but I was always impressed when they came with good steel and a good edge. I suppose a person could buy a Porsche just to drive to work and never intend to drive it fast, but they would feel cheated if it came with a small VW engine. So even though we don't need high zoot steel, we still want to have it. We know it's there and it gives us pleasure knowing it's there.

But back to the OP, 440C is not really bad steel and has some good qualities. It can take a good edge even though that edge won't last as long as the supersteels will. But besides the steel itself, the heat treat and the blade/edge geometry are also important in how a knife performs. If his knife meets his needs then we shouldn't complain, but he shouldn't complain about people that want better steel. I have a couple of M390 knives in my EDC rotation. I don't know if I will really ever be able to tell if the steel is better than 154 or S30V but in my mind I know that it is better.
 
Hum...troll thread? If there was no difference then companies wouldn't spend money developing them. It's like saying the difference between 420j2 and M4 is negligible?!?:yawn:
 
Steel choice makes very little difference to me as a whole, but I even disagree with the OP. Cutlery steels can be generally separated into various classes or subclasses and the design of the knife and its intended uses will determine the most appropriate class or subclass from which to select a steel. I do agree that more importance is placed on steel than is appropriate, but it still does matter regardless of commonly being overhyped. Heat treatment is the most important factor for me. But a knife should be made from a steel class appropriate to its design and intended environment/circumstances of use.

That doesn't mean that the steel has to be fancy or expensive. Just an appropriate match to the knife and the individual.
 
This steel-of-the-week selling point was started by Benchmade, when ATS-34 was the super steel. BM made a point to advertise, and stamp the blades with "ATS-34." Prior to that, no one really cared.

Add the internet availability of information, Youtube, and companies riding the steel-of-the-week bandwagon(s), you then have Hype Creation; people arguing over grain structure, heat treat, the amount of cardboard sliced, etc. There isn't a lot of difference between the high end steel in normal day-to-day usage.

There's been a few instances of "accidental" marking of blades saying they were one type of steel, when they were really another. No one could tell the difference, from a performance stand point.

We've been cutting stuff for thousands of years, and those in the distant, and not too distant past, cut everything just fine, and were probably harder on their blades than any modern user. And, guess what, they did it without the steel-of-the-week.
 
I think the OP was maybe trying to say in normal use there's no big difference. That's probably often true. An example of where it's not true would be large knives needing impact resistance. Does the average pocket knive need a super steel? Probably not. Do most people need a piston driven, high-end carbine? No, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have one if they want:) People buy performance items all the time they don't use to thier full potential. How many people buy Under Armor sports wear and obviously never exersize or even sweat;) I've noticed on the road that Corvettes and luxury "sporty" cars seem driven slower than most traffic. They're always in my way and piddling along. It's the piece of junk, beat up Honda with the gazoo sounding exhaust which is going twice the speed limit! It's also likely (without a doubt) that there are more cheap, low grade knives with what folks here would consider lousy steel performing more rough duty every day around the world than most $400 knives see in a lifetime. As was said, variety is the spice of life. We just have to remind ourselves that many of the "important" discussions we have around here are fun, but purely academic. Maybe someone here can tell us what kind of steel they use in slaughter houses? I'm betting it's cheap stainless, but I have no problem being proven wrong. Take care.
 
The OP is not exactly wrong, if geometry is taken advantage of, or knife use is as mundane and infrequent as most of the population experiences.

They all cut, they all eventually get dull. For knives, the difference is negligible for 99% of the time of even those who EDC. These steels need to be different for stamping dies, extrusion tooling, milling and cutting bits, doing things at tens of thousands of rpms, or at hundreds of degrees F/C, or at thousands of psi, or in environments corrosive enough to liquefy our lungs. For opening the mail, slicing an apple, cutting a couple, not hundreds, of cardboard boxes, not so much difference. For most work environments, knives don't do a lot. There are jobs that consist mostly of typing, mostly of talking, mostly of driving, mostly of lifting, mostly of hammering, mostly of wrench-turning, mostly of cutting with power equipment, and a very few mostly of cutting with hand tools that are not scissors/shears/snips/saws. The industrial/commercial knives for those jobs are often low grade and disposable, resharpening and long term use is generally an afterthought. We are a group mostly of enthusiasts.

The Yugo/Mercedes comparison would only work with knife brands/features, not the singular facet of steel used. More apt would be comparing a 200 hp Mercedes to a 500 hp Mercedes when going to the store. As a daily activity, where you are probably following the speed limit or close to it, the extra 300 hp does nothing for you. Cafe racers can use it, fun days at the track can show the difference, but if you drive a car just to get from point A to point B, then the performance never shows because you never perform. Same with a steel that never cuts anything, or cuts with an edge left close to factory angles and thickness. Even 70 Rc Supracor on an edge 50 degrees inclusive and 0.030" behind the bevel is going to suck at cutting. But you could install a nitrous kit or aftermarket supercharger on either Mercedes, and still only grab groceries in it.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/952337-The-3-percenters

I could also do a thread for my M390, S90V, CPM154, CPM M4, CPM 3V, CPM S30V, VG10, 440C, VG-1, Vascowear, Aogami Super, X39Cr13, AUS6, AUS8, 8Cr13MoV, 50100B, 52100, 1075, and 1095 knives, but those steels are so boring.
 
Maddogg774 said:
Hum...troll thread? If there was no difference then companies wouldn't spend money developing them. It's like saying the difference between 420j2 and M4 is negligible?!?:yawn:
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For the most part, it is all marketing hype. They develop the steel (including mystery magical ones like Infi and Carbon-V) just to sell it to you. Most users don't care, and the guys who work hardest with knives, every day of their lives, go with whatever their employers supply. Mont Blanc pens have alot going for them, but just about everyone uses cheap disposable pens for work. The same principle applies here. The only real and unique attribute to these latest and greatest super steals is their ability to empty a collector's wallet.

n2s
 
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