Blade steel, it's all good.

[stabman]

The OP is not exactly wrong, if geometry is taken advantage of, or knife use is as mundane and infrequent as most of the population experiences.

He ain't exactly right either, though.

Given the same edge geometry, a better steel (better when selected for the uses the knife is intended for) will be, well, better.

Steel snobbery is silly, and what was good 8 years ago is still good today, but there wouldn't be so many steels--and professional metalurgists--if it made no difference.

 

[brandonc]

SAKs, Case Knives, and Buck Knives are the most used by outdoorsmen and hunters. Anyone who hasn't memorized the alphabet of steel will tell you that those companies all have great steel that you can trust.

I edc a case slipjoint and a ZT0300 with S30V and I barley notice a difference. Either will maintain a working edge cutting cardboard and both will be dulled by aluminum or bone.

 

[stabman]

I edc a case slipjoint and a ZT0300 with S30V and I barley notice a difference. Either will maintain a working edge cutting cardboard and both will be dulled by aluminum or bone.

Certain tasks will show the difference far quicker.
When cutting plastic and 1/4" thick leather, I found the Strider SmF to hold the edge far longer than my Umnumzaan. Both are S30V, but the Strider runs at a higher hardness.
So, it's not just steel choice and geometry, but hardness can matter as well.

There's alot of factors that add up to a good knife, and steel selection is one of them.
If the knife has some amazing rarely needs to be sharpened steel, but has the ergonomic equivalent of a kick to the nads for the hand, I'll not be getting that knife.
Much like I won't buy a knife with the toughest lock ever if it has the edge geometry of a brick.

 

[sticktodrum]

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
How many of you carry a Mont Blanc pen vs a Bic, Zebra, Papermate or other cheap pen?

Me. It's engraved also. I love my super extra awesome sexy magicaltastic Sandvik steel though. It's...steel-y.

Snobbery? Absolutely. I work pretty hard for the money I make, and I spend some of it on high end steels that will pretty much just sit unused (save for my S35VN ZT0550). I like the steel in my Skyline and Hoodlum as well. Is the 14C28N magical? Well, it is to me. So is the 5160 in the Buck.

Let's say that the difference is really in one's mind. I don't see how that makes it any less important. We only live within the confines of our perceptions, and in a hobby/interest that clearly brings joy, community, and camaraderie, why is it something to look down one's nose at? I was thrilled to get my first experience with S35VN, and from the outlandish cutting tests I've done with it, I myself notice a difference. I'm happy about it.

 

[Ankerson]

Interesting thread....

There is a difference in the steels, although some are closer in performance than the ave user would be able to notice without testing.

However Blade geometry, edge geometry and even edge refinement can influence performance in a big way, sometimes that difference could be larger than the differences in the steels.

That's given good heat treatments and quality knives.

Perception is a powerful thing and add to that what some want to believe and have others believe for their own reasons and that causes misinformation to get spread around as truth, that has been and continues to be a big problem.

It's the why that seems to get overlooked for various reasons and just adds to the problems of bad information.

Steel snobs?

Well there are some around, not really sure what that term really means.

For me I tend to like performance, the more the better, now that could be the steels, knife design, blade and edge geometry or a combination of all.

Typically I seek the highest performing steel and a combination of design and geometry that gives me what I want or need, that could be Customs or Production.

Actual knife use is important also what those knives are getting used for.

So yeah one person will be fine with 440C and get by fine, while another uses S30V or even better for various reasons.

Most any knife will cut, but then we factor in how well it cuts, how long it cuts before needing to be sharpened and then how well it does when compared to other knives that could be similar.

Not getting into the money factor here as that is a huge factor and motivation for some to hype certain things above their real performance level and alloy content.

There is also a lot of Hype and urban legends floating around about certain steels performing well above their alloy content level, most of that is just what it is and not worth the effort to even type it as it's just complete BS.

In the end I say use what you want as it's an individual choice on what to buy and use.

 

[Larry Turko]

My 440c knife cuts things just like the S30v, or elmax, or cpm154. It makes so little difference. Maybe the elmax is easier to sharpen, and maybe the s30v stays sharp a little longer, but the difference is negligible. If you know how to sharpen a knife even cheap steel will work as well as any. I love shapening my knives, It's no chore to me. Even if I was stranded in the woods I always wear a belt, that's enough to get a knife razor sharp, a flat stone from a river works if you need to remove some steel. Steel only matters in your head.

I think you're right. Of course for many of the steel snobs on this forum what you've said is anathema. I think they'd burn you at the stake ,if they could, for speaking the [ for them] uncomfortable truth.

How can they possibly justify the ridiculous prices they pay for their knives if their illusion in "superior" steels is shattered.

 

[crom]

Cutting loads of cardboard and rope for a test vid isn't real world use, it's self indulgence with one's toys. Not that I don't appreciate it for the entertainment value, but come on.

 

[Ankerson]

Cutting loads of cardboard and rope for a test vid isn't real world use, it's self indulgence with one's toys. Not that I don't appreciate it for the entertainment value, but come on.

It's real world use for me as I really do cut a lot of cardboard on a normal basis, the rope is just another more stable test medium.

 

[stabman]

I think you're right. Of course for many of the steel snobs on this forum what you've said is anathema. I think they'd burn you at the stake ,if they could, for speaking the [ for them] uncomfortable truth.

How can they possibly justify the ridiculous prices they pay for their knives if their illusion in "superior" steels is shattered.

This is a silly post.
There's no need to justify paying ridiculous prices for anything.

And it is not the truth, uncomfortable or otherwise.
More edge retention means, well, more edge retention.
More toughness means, gee willikers, this is a news flash, that it is tougher.
More resistance to rust means that it won't rust as easily.

There are many different qualities inherent to the different steels. If you are doing tasks that any old steel will work equally well for, then yes, there's not going to be a difference for you.
But for someone who is getting the benefits out of the chosen steel, whether it be toughness, corrosion resistance, or any other desired attribute, then it will make a difference.

Higher end steel isn't usually the reason for higher prices...that's a whole other ball of wax.

 

[jvarn81]

I think you're right. Of course for many of the steel snobs on this forum what you've said is anathema. I think they'd burn you at the stake ,if they could, for speaking the [ for them] uncomfortable truth.

How can they possibly justify the ridiculous prices they pay for their knives if their illusion in "superior" steels is shattered.

I just like cool new steels....knives are my hobby.....so get off my back,

 

[stabman]

I just like cool new steels....knives are my hobby.....so get off my back,

And this.:thumbup:

 

[Ankerson]

I think you're right. Of course for many of the steel snobs on this forum what you've said is anathema. I think they'd burn you at the stake ,if they could, for speaking the [ for them] uncomfortable truth.

How can they possibly justify the ridiculous prices they pay for their knives if their illusion in "superior" steels is shattered.

Some of actually really use our knives for more than opening envelopes and flip toys and on a daily basis.

So we don't have any illusion of what the steels can and can't do.

Don't fool yourself those steels really do perform at a very high level, a steel like S90V with that alloy content will hold an edge and continue to cut for a very long time when compared to the more normal steels.

 

[crimsonfalcon07]

When's the last time you had to make 400 cuts into a piece of cardboard?

Never had to break down a bunch of boxes? There are plenty of jobs where this sort of thing becomes necessary.

I think you're right. Of course for many of the steel snobs on this forum what you've said is anathema. I think they'd burn you at the stake ,if they could, for speaking the [ for them] uncomfortable truth.

How can they possibly justify the ridiculous prices they pay for their knives if their illusion in "superior" steels is shattered.

Noss would be out of a job if steel types didn't matter also. Not that I like the fellow, but he does provide convincing evidence that certain steel types hold up better to being bashed with a hammer and chopping through bricks and such. And if that happens to be your EDC's job, then you had BEST have the best steel you can find.

 

[singularity35]

Cutting loads of cardboard and rope for a test vid isn't real world use, it's self indulgence with one's toys. Not that I don't appreciate it for the entertainment value, but come on.

Running a race car on the track isn't real world use too. Does it make a race car perform any less? Performance is performance anywhere, but you have to make an apples to apples comparison.

 

[shunsui]

If people want to use cheap steel, slipjoints, and moras; more power to them. I've got a friend who asked about good sharpeners. I showed him a couple. He chose to use an industrial strength pull through thing that's built better than his cheap knife.

He's happy.

I'm happy not banging my head against the wall.

 

[crimsonfalcon07]

Running a race car on the track isn't real world use too. Does it make a race car perform any less? Performance is performance anywhere, but you have to make an apples to apples comparison.

Race car drivers might disagree. What, are they living in a different world? For that matter, cutting rope is meant to be a test of the knife's ability to cut something tough and fibrous. Maybe folks like crom only play with their EDC's in front of their computer, but there are folks out there who need their knives to perform at a variety of different things. Maybe they need to be able to cut roots or vines, or maybe they're in a job where, amazingly enough, they actually encounter rope. Or that plastic stuff that gets wrapped around packages or pallets. Sometimes, you actually have to cut it, as shocking as that might sound. Believe it or not, cutting rope and cardboard CAN be the daily task of a knife. I'm sure there have to be a few people who have worked warehouse jobs, and wanted something better or otherwise more interesting than the box cutters they usually give you. And even if they're not, they're still good tests as to how well your knife will hold up.

I can't help but think that people who put down cutting rope and cardboard as being "unrealistic" don't really use their knives for much.

And when you really want your knife to be sharp, it's pretty nice if it actually is, and it's not dull because it's a lower quality steel that you have been too lazy to get around to sharpening. Say, when you've accidentally driven off a bridge into water, and you need to cut your seatbelt because it refuses to unfasten. Or when you're out sailing and you've gotten a line wrapped around yourself, and you need to get free.

 

[Ankerson]

Or that plastic stuff that gets wrapped around packages or pallets. Sometimes, you actually have to cut it, as shocking as that might sound. Believe it or not, cutting rope and cardboard CAN be the daily task of a knife. I'm sure there have to be a few people who have worked warehouse jobs, and wanted something better or otherwise more interesting than the box cutters they usually give you. And even if they're not, they're still good tests as to how well your knife will hold up.

How true is that. :thumbup:

And not just warehouse jobs either.

For the record box cutters just plain suck for most things.

 

[singularity35]

Race car drivers might disagree. What, are they living in a different world? For that matter, cutting rope is meant to be a test of the knife's ability to cut something tough and fibrous. Maybe folks like crom only play with their EDC's in front of their computer, but there are folks out there who need their knives to perform at a variety of different things. Maybe they need to be able to cut roots or vines, or maybe they're in a job where, amazingly enough, they actually encounter rope. Or that plastic stuff that gets wrapped around packages or pallets. Sometimes, you actually have to cut it, as shocking as that might sound. Believe it or not, cutting rope and cardboard CAN be the daily task of a knife. I'm sure there have to be a few people who have worked warehouse jobs, and wanted something better or otherwise more interesting than the box cutters they usually give you. And even if they're not, they're still good tests as to how well your knife will hold up.

I can't help but think that people who put down cutting rope and cardboard as being "unrealistic" don't really use their knives for much.

And when you really want your knife to be sharp, it's pretty nice if it actually is, and it's not dull because it's a lower quality steel that you have been too lazy to get around to sharpening. Say, when you've accidentally driven off a bridge into water, and you need to cut your seatbelt because it refuses to unfasten. Or when you're out sailing and you've gotten a line wrapped around yourself, and you need to get free.

Haha, yep, I do wonder what they would consider "real world use test", opening mail?

...Say, when you've accidentally driven off a bridge into water, and you need to cut your seatbelt because it refuses to unfasten. Or when you're out sailing and you've gotten a line wrapped around yourself, and you need to get free.

but... but... but aren't they easy to field sharpen on a flat rock?

 

[bdmicarta]

Never had to break down a bunch of boxes? There are plenty of jobs where this sort of thing becomes necessary.

I was reading a thread from another person that said they had to make a lot of cardboard cuts each day and their normal knives would not last through one day. The guy had started carrying the M390 Paramilitary 2 and found that it would stay sharp for him all day. This is an extreme case for sure.

I also have an M390 Paramilitary for my EDC, although I may not cut one cardboard box per week. For me that means I can carry it for months without needing to sharpen it. I paid a lot more for this knife than I would have paid for the standard model, I paid more partly because I wanted the better steel and partly because I wanted the unique G10 color.

 

[BePrepared]

Just go buy an INFI blade and forget about it... once you go INFI, you never go back... unless you suck, then you go back, but who here wants to admit to sucking?

(that's known as "the argument from intimidation", for the philosophy students in the audience)