BLADE STEEL RATING

Rob, I figured as much on the sharpenning. Is there really any alloy out there that cannot be sharpenned well. It seems to me that when one person cannot sharpen a certain alloy another can. Myself, I have a hard time putting a good edge on the softer materials, because I rol the edge and don't clean it up. The harder materials dont roll as much for me anyway and I can get them fairly sharp.
 
Dennis (Cobalt),

Sorry about the delay in getting back to you...things have been hectic.

First, I want to apologize. Don't know why but since day one I've had it in my mind that both Carbide Processors and Deloro referred to the 6B flavor as "6Bh". Not so! Only Talonite is called 6Bh; Deloro calls theirs simply 6B, as you've pointed out. Yup, chemically identical, but processed differently.

Second, Kit has provided a lot of insight to both Stellite in 6K and 6B. I won't go into all the comparisons about things like flexibility, etc., but suffice it to say that when compared to each other both have their relative advantages and disadvantages.

What we've been trying to do is add a third flavor to the mix and weigh again the relative merits of each to both knifemaker and "ELU". I think the preliminary stuff, argueably of course, pretty much has made the comparisons more of a Talonite 6Bh versus Stellite 6K issue.

Identical blades of each of these materials are currently being made. Comparisons of fabrication efforts and use, with all that it implies, will be forthcoming. I believe some scientific tests of these 2 knives, analogous to what Sal Glesser does at Spyderco, are also in the offing. What I suspect we will end up seeing, outside of the fabrication realm which I believe is a foregone based upon knifemaker reports to date, are results that are expressed as a matter of small, quantifiable differences between the two in a variety of categories. What will be left to the knife buyer is to weigh those differences against their needs. Obviously any cost considerations associated with more labor intensive fabrication would also become a factor if the overall price of the knife is a significant concern.

Regardless, this should prove illuminating for those who have not sampled a quality cobalt alloy blade yet
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!

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-=[Bob]=-

I did NOT escape from the institution! They gave me a day pass!

 
My only problem with these two materials is their cost. I think the $180 to $200 per pound needs to come down to about half that if these materials are ever going to make it in the knife world. This is were Boye's dendritic Cobalt may indeed have an advantage over the other two.
 
As demand increases you would expect them to drop, however note this material is already heat treated so it should be a fair bit more expensive than plain steel.

-Cliff
 
Cliff, you are right that prices should start to drop and that they come heat treated. A well known knife maker quoted me $25 for heat treating a blade, so this is definitely a factor. Also, if you buy enough of the stuff, you can get a better deal on it. I think the cutoff is 5 pounds, which with this stuff builds up pretty quick since it is heavier than steel.
 
Thought I would post something about cost here, it may not be the place to post it and I hope I dont step on any toes, if I do, feel free to delete this Sal. I am the distributor of this material and one of my goals is to offer it at a reasonable price. The $180 to $200 per pound is high. I offer it for quite a little less than that in one piece lots. I wont mention prices here but in the next week or so check my web site and you will see the right pricing. It is still pricey but darn well worth it! There is special pricing on volume also. Rob

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www.simonichknives.com
 
Rob - I would see no reason to delete any post unless it was untrue or discourteous. The object of the Spyderco Forum is to Share knowledge (in the Al Mar tradition).

I will however add that material costs to the "outside" often times seems higher than the "imagined" value. Added to material costs is labor. Labor costs more on the materials that make good knives. This is true because all of the features that give it edge holding are the same features that resist grinding, drilling, polishing and sharpening.

As a example, CPM-440V cost twice as much as ATS-34. Working with the material properly also costs twice as much becuase it takes longer to "remove molecules of material". We use up grinding wheels 4 times as fast. All of these factors add to the cost of using the material.

Volume does not decrrease the labor, or the wheel cost. Prices on somethings just don't come down...ever. Becuase the cost of making more is not any less per unit. I cannot speak particularly of the new cobalt materials becuase we ar still learning ourselves...but generally speaking, exotic stuff is exotic. Exotica always cost more. Mostly because of the time. Coal + time and pressure = Diamononds. Diamonds cost a lot more than coal. Also the people cutting the new trails have higher expenses than those that follow behind on the paved roads. The costs of experiments, R & D, failure after failure.

If something is very expensive, that may not be that it costs too much, it may be that you simply can't aford it. There are many things that I simply cannot afford. That is not bad, just real. If you think some one is trying to "rip you off", you'll figure it out. Those people don't last long. Especially with forums like this one.

Just some opinions to share. If I get to "wordy" please comment. Soemtimes I don't know when to be quiet.
sal
 
Rob, thanks for posting on the pricing. Have you had any experience with impact testing on the edge's of the talonite blades, to see if they chip. There was a magazine article that discussed the impact strength of different steels, I wonder how these materials stack up on that end of it.
 
Rob Cude, the Explosive Ordnance Disposal guy for the USN, has had a Kit Carson U2 dive knife for many years. He says he has had no problems prying with it.

Kit says he has never had a U2 returned with a broken blade due to prying (or any other reason, if I recall correctly).

Ralf, a near neighbor here in the S F Bay area has several Stellite knives, uses them on and around rocks at the beach, has dropped the knives at times, never had any break or chip.

Hope this helps. Talonite is probably capable of having a Spydie hole drilled in the blade (semi-obligatory Spydie content
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) Walt
 
Whew, my name sure got batted around alot in the last couple dozen posts.
Hopefully today I will be grinding 6 folders with both Stellite 6K and Talonite 6BH. I guess since I'm one of the few that has ground both materials I might have some interesting information coming.
Standby.
 
Kit C., Nice to see you in here. Your comments, " most knowledgeable one in stellite/talonite working", are appreciated.
 
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