blade thicknesses

i have no immediate use for thick blades where im at at the moment...but i love all thicknesses from my SAK OHT blade up to hortons sharpened prybars...its all good. :)

i will add i agree with rick on edge geometry...and koyote on grinds.
 
sorry its taken me awhile to reply to the responses,but for some reason bf wouldnt work all day til now.dont know if anyone else had this problem or just me.

anyways,to the few that said i answered my own ?, i did make it sound like i was fine with stick tang 1/8", but i didnt specify that it is not a knife that i would be confident in to not fail when i need it the most.

the reason i asked this question is because ive been designing a knife i want built and cant decide if i need 3/16" to be able to do all tasks up to moderate batoning,or is the more nimble 1/8" strong enough to not have to worry either. so i came up with 5/32" as my ideal thickness and that made me wonder why people would prefer 1/4" steel on a blade,maybe they know somethin i dont kind of thing.really like the feed back and info guys:thumbup:
 
I have done a lot of knife work in -30--40 and didn't have any ill effects on 1/8 blades. They have served me well.
 
Skimo said:
This is where people get caught up in personal and regional uses in reference to knives (all shapes and sizes)

I'll tell you right now, PNW is a completely different world than than the gulf states, which are different from other places.

There are so many sizes and shapes because they're all (mostly) useful for specific tasks or different places.

This gets covered in fire making discussions as well, some places are windy and you'll want to take extra precautions for fire making, both for starting and maintaining the fire, other places are damp, raising the fire off of the wet ground may be important etc. etc.

Saying all of this to demonstrate that there are reasons for big and small blades, saws, hatchets, axes, tomahawks, machetes, pen blades, slipjoints etc.
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Which is why our ancestors, who lived much closer to nature, were not as shy as we are about taking a wide variety of tools into the woods. A full size axe, a machete, a modest belt knife, and a pocket tool can cover alot of ground for a very modest cost.

n2s
 
skitertank said:
the reason i underline knife is because i beleive there is a right tool for every job and i do not use a knife to pry open car doors,chop down trees,or dig for clams in the sand.i just dont think its what the knife was intended to do.
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I think there's an important distinction between what you view regarding the intended use and the real world applications. Obviously, knives (various choppers) are used to cut down small trees all the time every day. I hacked down a banana tree a few weeks back with a mid sized knife. I carry a mid sized knife with me while doing yard work, and on occasion jam it into the dirt and use it to dig up a root, weed, or rock. I could lug around all my garden tools with me all the time so I'd always have exactly what I need, but that isn't practical. Sometimes the "right" tool is the one I have with me, so I need to make sure that the tool I carry can handle a variety of tasks.

People choose different thickness for the same reason they choose different lengths...because certain configurations work better for certain tasks. Personal preference also plays a large role.

That said, since you're designing a knife for your own use, and you have a pretty firm idea as to what you feel are the correct and incorrect uses, design for the "correct" uses. Based on your comments I'd think that you'd be happier with something around 1/8".
 
i have always been into knives but when i started to get into wss i was heavily influenced by Ron Hood. He carries a large 1/4" chopper and a thin sak. This combo can virtually handle everything in a pinch and be rather compact just the same.

Some would rather carry dedicated tools but i don't like the extra volume they take to carry. I personally have tried other designs and combos and nessmuk trios but for me the Hood combo works best for me.

You will have to decide what other tools you are going to and willing to carry before you design your perfect blade. I find my GEC whittler handles most of the chores a 4" bladed bushcrafter will do in an easier to carry package leaving me room on my belt to carry a "real man's knife" (being facetious before anyone gets mad at me)
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hlee said:
The problem is in the definition of "normal ws&s related tasks." What is normal? For some it is food prep with a bit of whittling. 1/16" is probably enough. Others would like to do some heavier wood work, including but not limited to batoning small sized limbs for kindling. Others still may feel the need to baton large logs and stumps for fatwood, fell smallish trees for shelter building, digging for clams, etc. And then there are the ones who feel that if it CAN be done with a knife then a knife should be able to do it- hammer tent pegs, chop through telephone poles, dig tunnels through mountain sides, etc. What is good for the goose is not always good for the gander.
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good thoughts, and frankly that is why we support custom blade smiths :D
 
Some thoughts-

I'm one of those guys who likes to carry a traditional multi-blade folder along with a big knife. The slipjoint (usually a stockman) gives me multiple blade & tip shapes, and edge types, for a broader variety of applications, and packs a lot of edge into a small package. An edge that's only 0.006" thick can do some fine slicing. So my fixed blade doesn't need to be so thin.

Edge and grind geometry matters more to me than ultimate blade thickness. A full height grind with a thin edge can easily be finer than a sabre or scandi ground blade of thinner stock.

When it comes to "fine" or "delicate" work, blade width matters more to me than thickness, (assuming similar edge geometry) most times. That's one thing I haven't seen mentioned here yet, and am often surprised at how wide many knives pictured on this forum are. A blade 2" wide with a fat tip ain't gonna let you turn in concave cuts, etc., very easy; I don't care how thin it is. May be perfect fer slicin' taters, though.

Here's another thing I ain't seen mentioned yet. How blade thickness & tapers affect dynamic balance. For a blade that will see dynamic use (such as chopping), you can gain a great deal of efficiency by distributing the mass correctly via tapers, etc. And if you're starting out at 1/8" or less thickness, you don't have much room to taper it. If you want a long blade that will maneuver faster than a machete and still outchop a khukri, you need to start out with thick(er) stock near the hilt.
 
Possum I have noticed this as well with the recent purchase of a Buck 110-it's a very thick blade at the spine but the grind takes a deep dive in towards the point. However, those style grinds are alot harder to maintain than a scandi in the field using an arkansas stone and a bastard file... As tough as some of these slipjoints are, they still don't hold a candle to a fixed blade knife in durability, and with skinning and cooking and other dirty camp tasks it's so easy to get blood and sand and dirt in the action of the knife and almost impossible to clean in the field. For this reason I like using a fixed blade scandi knife for my slicing tasks in addition to a beater.
 
the possum said:
Here's another thing I ain't seen mentioned yet. How blade thickness & tapers affect dynamic balance. For a blade that will see dynamic use (such as chopping), you can gain a great deal of efficiency by distributing the mass correctly via tapers, etc. And if you're starting out at 1/8" or less thickness, you don't have much room to taper it. If you want a long blade that will maneuver faster than a machete and still outchop a khukri, you need to start out with thick(er) stock near the hilt.
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I'm a believer in this too. My favorite knife is this traditional bowie from Matt Lamey. It is a fighting knife per se but it does great for other tasks too do to Matt's knowledge as a knifemaker. It is 11/32" at the guard and has a distal taper towards the point with an 11" blade. Very fast and lively in the hand due to the weight distribution. I just wish Jerry would try a battle mistress with the distal taper. I tend to feel the bm feels sluggish in use compared to my custom bowies.
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..that was what i was going to say, Possum and crossada.

a forged blade can distribute the mass where it needs to be for a certain effect. Stock removal can too, with more work.

I do not feel 3/8" is too thick if it is distributed correctly, and with the right tapers and grind it will feel light in the hand, very quick and able to chop with power as well. I do not think I'd like a blade 3/8" with no tapers, however.

A decent thickness and good heat treat give the user options for emergency use. Back up your large chopper with a flat ground 1/8" thick or so blade with a thinner edge profile and you pretty much have it licked. You may need an axe for really big jobs, but i have found that a good heavy duty knife will do in a pinch. And I can EDC a bowie alot easier than the axe. the smaller knife is a given.
 
skitertank said:
ive noticed there are many different thicknesses of blades here and am wondering, how thick does a user blade really need to be to be strong and functional as a knife?the reason i underline knife is because i beleive there is a right tool for every job and i do not use a knife to pry open car doors,chop down trees,or dig for clams in the sand.i just dont think its what the knife was intended to do. i use my knives for general cutting,carving,field dressing,skinning and batoning. ive used a stick tang 1/8" to do all of these and never fail.my preffered thickness is 5/32" as it is plenty strong for my user needs and performs eqaully well in all the above areas.

so the question is what thickness is strong enough to do all normal WSS related tasks?my question i guess goes mainly to the makers here on WSS,as theres method to thier madness when it comes to making a strong functional cutting tool,but anyone with logic behind an answer is cool too:D
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Moras are .096 inches I believe and they are superb blades for most survival cutting tasks. Designated slicers are 100% functional at that thickness. I have a Koyote Leuku that's not much thicker than that and it's my favorite bushcrafting knife. I have yet to touch the edge with a sharpening device since I purchased it in August, it is still surgical sharp. I can walk past a dandilion and slice the head off without any swinging motion. For whittling, skinning, meat processing, linework etc I think everyone should have a thin knife with a scandi edge, they're super effective. Heck there are completely effective machetes barely thicker than .05 inches. Though that thickness wouldn't be my personal choice, it's definately useable-look at Imacasa and Tramontina for example. As far as thickness goes, I don't see much purpose for a knife significantly thicker than .25 inches. At this point I'd much prefer an axe. A good high carbon steel has no reason to be any thicker for a personal use cutting tool, I can't imagine breaking a BK2 or a RC5 and there's no way a heavy thick knife is going to outchop an axe. Sorry busse fans, I'd take a 1 pound 19 inch frontier style tomahawk to your battle mistress anyday.
 
Posts 21,22, and 49 aught to be put on a sticky labeled "Blade Thickness FAK " or something like that.

I also would like to add that I have to think that a lot of people that say "use the "right" tool for the job" do most of their work in a garage of some sort or for some other reason do not have to carry their tools very far or do not plan for emergencies or live in some sort of tropical paradise or something because where I live, work, and play, axe handles break, wood is hard to chop and split much of the time, people need splints or crutches sometimes, and stuff happens in general. Maybe its just me and the people that I know that live in the "real" world but most of us would rather spend our hard earned cash on tools that we can trust to work in less than ideal situations and that are capable of doing multiple tasks so we can travel lighter overall and walk further and enjoy our time away from our trucks and tool boxes more while still being able to handle the emergencies and less than ideal surroundings that come up some of the time. For us the "right" tool for the job might be a Bussekin or some other "sharpened prybar" made by someone who knows how to make something that cuts AND prys and does other things well.
 
seems like the right answer is "it depends".

for example, the Glock field knife is... what, 3/16" thick, but has what seems like crappy geometry and no belly... but then it's a bayonet for a bullpup rifle. nobody should expect that blade to make any sense.

then there's the BK&T Brute. 1/4" thick blade, but better geometry and not just a tent stake. but then the BL&T Campanion also has a 1/4" blade and feels heavy and clumsy to me.

so blade thickness isn't the only thing to consider.
 
To each his (or her) own. That being said, I use my knives as cutting and slicing tools...which means thinner is better. If I want to dig, I use a shovel. If I want to pry, there are better tools for that.

AJ
 
PayetteRucker said:
...As far as thickness goes, I don't see much purpose for a knife significantly thicker than .25 inches. At this point I'd much prefer an axe. A good high carbon steel has no reason to be any thicker for a personal use cutting tool...Sorry busse fans, I'd take a 1 pound 19 inch frontier style tomahawk to your battle mistress anyday.
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I've got to agree with you there. The fact of the matter is that the Battle Mistress and any other fatty Busses are owned and coveted because there is just something cool about an indestructible knife. An axe is going to out chop them and a thinner bladed knife is going to out slice them. Yet there is still an undefinable draw for a lot of people to those monster thick knives. I have to admit I like them. But I've owned a couple of 1/4" thick Busses in the past and have ended up trading them away for thinner stock knives (all of which happened to be Busses). That being said, I still prefer a 3/16" thick knife to a 1/8" thick knife. It may not be for a rational reason but I feel I can trust a thicker knife more than a thinner one and that why I carry them.
 
skitertank said:
ive noticed there are many different thicknesses of blades here and am wondering, how thick does a user blade really need to be to be strong and functional as a knife?the reason i underline knife is because i beleive there is a right tool for every job and i do not use a knife to pry open car doors,chop down trees,or dig for clams in the sand.i just dont think its what the knife was intended to do. i use my knives for general cutting,carving,field dressing,skinning and batoning. ive used a stick tang 1/8" to do all of these and never fail.my preffered thickness is 5/32" as it is plenty strong for my user needs and performs eqaully well in all the above areas.

so the question is what thickness is strong enough to do all normal WSS related tasks?my question i guess goes mainly to the makers here on WSS,as theres method to thier madness when it comes to making a strong functional cutting tool,but anyone with logic behind an answer is cool too:D
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I use my knives to cut an dlice so I prefer 2mm to 3mm thickness
 
JRB said:
That being said, I still prefer a 3/16" thick knife to a 1/8" thick knife. It may not be for a rational reason but I feel I can trust a thicker knife more than a thinner one and that why I carry them.
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Oh there's a place for that. I love my HEST, it's only 3 inches but 3/16 thick-it has a massive belly though, so slicing tasks are still a cinch. It is ALWAYS in my pocket, I see it as a pocket SERE knife. It's only 3 inches but it will dig, pry, chop, etc and come back asking for more. I just carry a puuko with me when bushcrafting as the designated slicer, that's all.
 
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