Blue #2 or white paper

So I checked out Dictum and am waiting on an email back. I saw something about free shipping on orders over $200 or so and asked if that applies to the USA. Also how long it would take to ship. I see they take paypal so I feel a little better about purchasing overseas using them than just my debit card. I will update when I hear back.
 
The good news is that you get close to a 20% discount from their listed price because they back out the VAT.
So I checked out Dictum and am waiting on an email back. I saw something about free shipping on orders over $200 or so and asked if that applies to the USA. Also how long it would take to ship. I see they take paypal so I feel a little better about purchasing overseas using them than just my debit card. I will update when I hear back.
 
Dictum will sell you the Blue and White #2. The Blue and White #1 and the Super Blue? Unobtanium.
 
How much does Dictnum charge for shipping? The shipping cost page does not make sense to me, or it's a language issue. How come Express shipping is lower than Regular shipping? Anyone actually purchased from them before can verify?
 
Last edited:
Dictum will sell you the Blue and White #2. The Blue and White #1 and the Super Blue? Unobtanium.

There is a member here that use to be able to get small amounts of the #1 and the super blue..He sold some of it on the exchange once, just a small bar. I would have bought it but didn't see it in time. He hasn't been around much lately..
Seems it may as well be iridium to you and me :grumpy:
 
Dictum will sell you the Blue and White #2. The Blue and White #1 and the Super Blue? Unobtanium.

I am trying to acquire Hitachi white paper 1&2, blue paper 1&2 in retail amounts from a Japanese source, not right now but after I can figure out all the details including all cost and risks. They also offer Takefu white paper #2.

Certainly there are some hoops to jump through but it can be done. The Japanese seller must be a registered member of some association to get and resell the material. Other than that, I don't think they forbid the export of those materials
 
Last edited:
If you can let us know..Ive seen it done in small personal ammounts once here by a forum member who had friends over there but I think that's about it..I know a bunch of us would be interested if you do.
 
How much does Dictnum charge for shipping? The shipping cost page does not make sense to me, or it's a language issue. How come Express shipping is lower than Regular shipping? Anyone actually purchased from them before can verify?
IIRC, the express shipping number is for the EU or maybe just for Germany. You need to play with the number of pieces to see where the shipping goes up.
 
Just out of curiosity, has anyone ever asked Murray Carter for help?
 
When Dictum say they are selling "white paper steel from Japan", did anyone confirm if the steels are "Hitachi YSS Shirogami/Shiroko 2" (White PAPER) or "Takefu Shiro 2" (White)? I can see both name mentioned in commercial/custom chef knives sold to consumers. Both are quite popular in chef knives. And both are available in "clad" forms (San Mai, Warikomi, and Ni Mai). Not trying to question Dictum's authority, but it will be nice if we can get clarifications.

Other than sharing the same word Shiro in the name, they are definitely not the same steel, made by different factories. I will not be surprised if certain amount of consumers think they are the same thing. It's important to note "Takefu Shiro 2" (White) is not a White PAPER steel but a White steel, although in many places the sellers mix them up, intentionally or unintentionally.

"Takefu Shiro 2" (White) has Cr and Ni added in intentionally. It's goal is not to be as pure as possible. To make it more confusing, another steel, "Takefu V2C" is a direct competitor to "Hitachi YSS Shirogami/Shiroko 2" (White PAPER) But V2C does not have "Shiro" (white) in its name.
 
Last edited:
Bohler K990 (W1) is also a similar option, very low alloy and 1.05C


Pablo
 
I bought some 416 directly at the dictum store it was in a pile of discounted materials with a jantz.com stickers still on it. I'm not sure how that got there but maybe the 2 deal somehow with each other?

Sent from my GT-I9301I using Tapatalk
 
I don't think you have to worry about any switcheroo being pulled off.
Much of the steel I get from Dictum ( and Workshop Heaven) comes with the HT and data papers from Hitachi still wrapped around it. Some even comes in the original wrapping papers from Hitachi in Japan ... all written in Japanese.

The Takefu alloys are different form Hitachi ... but they both produce superb knives. The benefit of either one is an exact and guaranteed makeup that you know. The similarity in the names is because the same terms are used to note higher and lower grades. It can be confusing if the source isn't known, though.

The names Aogami, Shirogami, and Kigami ( and similar names) , meaning blue/white/yellow metal, are based on the old days in the Yasuki/Yasugi steel district when many of the workers could not read or write well. The steels were wrapped in different color papers to signify the purity level, and the papers were numbered to signify the degree of impurity (alloying). #1 was the very purest, #2 was very good, and #3 had much more alloying and trace elements. This was started before the days of metallurgical science, when the blooms were sorted by experienced smiths based on look and brittleness. They were surprisingly skilled at separating the steel types.
White was the purest. The grade designated the carbon content. White #1 was the highest carbon and purest steel made at the time. Only a small portion of production would be graded thus. It was rare and highly regulated as who could use it by the Guild. I think it still is to some degree.
Blue was white steel with other alloys added.
Yellow was the least pure, but still cleaner than standard "mill" steels.

Here is a good data sheet that shows the reasons for the various levels of alloy. Each change is for a reason to increase a certain aspect of the blade.
http://www.hidatool.com/image/data/pdf/White Steel vs Blue Steel Chart.pdf




I am not sure Murray can sell any of his Hitachi steel. He is granted an exemption to purchase it outside of Japan because he is a Guild member. It is also a selling point of his knives that he promotes.
 
Thank you Stacy.

I can not find any confusion among Japanese steel makers between Shiro-gami (White Paper Steel) vs Shiro (White Steel). They are always very careful if "gami" is added or not, in any context. The confusion is introduced after knife makers start marketing - somehow the word Gami (paper) is lost. That is why it is important for a supplier such as Dictum to be specific about it. Again I am not trying to challenge their authenticity. When they sell both steels on the same web page, it is better to distinguish them a bit more. The EBay reseller source, seems to be a trust-able supplier, is mistaken in calling Takefu Shiro steel "White Paper Steel".

It's just in a name. But I found many Japanese knife makers, when they name their product lines by imprinting the name of the steel on the blade, they just say "Shiro Steel" or "Ao Steel" and avoided using the word Gami (paper). The consumers seem to love the word "Shiro" and who knows if they really care if the steel is from Hitachi or Takefu. In reality that may not make much of a difference! You can see plenty of discussions on this forum calling the Hitachi steel "White Steel", when it should only be called "White Paper Steel", if people realize the existence and popularity of Takefu Shiro Steel
 
Last edited:
Just out of curiosity, has anyone ever asked Murray Carter for help?

I have some steel from him,
I can get some, I bought that privilege and I paid mightily for it, thus if you want some, you will pay me mightily for it :-)
he only sells to his students
 
Last edited:
I have a friend that travels to Japan for business a few times a year. I wonder if he could purchase some of the white there and ship it back to me? I don't know how much we could get and have no idea what the shipping cost would be but maybe it's worth looking into.

just curious, why do you want to make your own San-Mai with this steel as the core if it's already readily available and at a reasonable price?
 
just curious, why do you want to make your own San-Mai with this steel as the core if it's already readily available and at a reasonable price?
I didn't realize it was readily available for s reasonable price. I figured if you couldn't find it by itself then you couldn't find it in San Mai. Also I figure I can make it for the cost of the materials whereas I would be paying materials plus labor. Any links where I can find it already in a billet?
 
Back
Top