BM Does the Spyderhole Better!

[Moodino]

The now discontinued Elliptical Benchmade hole is ergonomically superior to the round hole because it conforms geometrically to the edge of the thumb, whereas the round hole DOES NOT.
I did some digging and dicovered that the Elliptical Benchmade hole was a typical work-around to avoid copyright/patent infringement on the Spyderco invention. What's really interesting is that Benchmade has been granted rights by Spyderco to use the round hole! It gets curiouser. If as I just stated, Elliptical is more ergomomic than round, then why on earth would Benchmade even bother to get permission and use round?
It turns out that the market perception that 'round hole' equals the genuine article, trumps ergonomic advantages! So Benchmade are going for the money, fogoing ergonomists like me.
That's why I scoop up every AFCK Axis Benchmade I can find!
On the matter of champfered vs sharp edges on the insides of the holes- Sharp edges win out from a performance optimization stand point. This takes both bare as well as gloved thumbs into consideration.
The cat's meow however, would be the Elliptical Benchmade hole with a platform on the spine. Now THAT would beat all for performance.

 

[DaveH]

The now discontinued Elliptical Benchmade hole is ergonomically superior to the round hole because it conforms geometrically to the edge of the thumb, whereas the round hole DOES NOT.

You have some weird looking thumbs then, round is better by far, which is why everyone wants to copy it.

It turns out that the market perception that 'round hole' equals the genuine article, trumps ergonomic advantages! So Benchmade are going for the money, fogoing ergonomists like me.

If that's true, which I don't agree with, then it's because Spyderco made it the most recognized not benchmade. Maybe benchmade should get off their arses and do their job design knives. At the rate their going they'll be like Joy Cutlery in a couple of years.

 

[flipe8]

Maybe benchmade should get off their arses and do their job design knives. At the rate their going they'll be like Joy Cutlery in a couple of years.

 

[jag-engr]

The now discontinued Elliptical Benchmade hole is ergonomically superior to the round hole because it conforms geometrically to the edge of the thumb, whereas the round hole DOES NOT.
I did some digging and dicovered that the Elliptical Benchmade hole was a typical work-around to avoid copyright/patent infringement on the Spyderco invention. What's really interesting is that Benchmade has been granted rights by Spyderco to use the round hole! It gets curiouser. If as I just stated, Elliptical is more ergomomic than round, then why on earth would Benchmade even bother to get permission and use round?
It turns out that the market perception that 'round hole' equals the genuine article, trumps ergonomic advantages! So Benchmade are going for the money, fogoing ergonomists like me.
That's why I scoop up every AFCK Axis Benchmade I can find!
On the matter of champfered vs sharp edges on the insides of the holes- Sharp edges win out from a performance optimization stand point. This takes both bare as well as gloved thumbs into consideration.
The cat's meow however, would be the Elliptical Benchmade hole with a platform on the spine. Now THAT would beat all for performance.

This is probably the best explanation I've come across in the whole thread as to why everyone is so mad at Benchmade. Put this way, it does seem rather under-handed. I will continue to be both a Benchmade fan and a Spyderco fan, though.

I strongly agree with Moodino that the oval thumbhole is more ergonomic. I also agree that I want an Axis-locking AFCK!

As for all of you that are so quick to assert that I have weak/tender thumbs, you have obviously personalized the Spyderco-Benchmade-thumbhole issue to an irrational extent. I am sorry for the pain that this thread must have caused you.

 

[Steven Andrews]

An oval hole is not more ergonomic. It feels more natural for me to open my knife by pushing the thumbstud or hole forwards, not out perpendicular to the handle. This means that, with an oval hole, I am pushing on the narrower "pointy end" of the oval.
I found that my thumb would sometimes slip off the oval hole of my 555 Mini Grip.

My latest Mini Grip is the 555HG with round hole:


The round hole of this knife works much better than the oval of the older 555.

With a round hole or thumbstud the pressures and forces on the thumb remain constant thoughout the opening arc.

 

[rosconey2]

funny thing is-ive seen a old pocket knife on ebay that had a hole to open it with-it was made pre 1900 if i remember correctly-

 

[moonwilson]

If you are seriously picking through several knives to see which one won't cut you with the hole, you suck! I mean it. If that is what you do with youe time and that is what you look for in a knife, you have ZERO mechanical ability. The sharpest hole can be fixed in less then one minuit with just about any old piece of sand paper. You don't need a diamond file, just knock the edge off and it won't cut you anymore.

So I suck because I check the hole on a Spyderco to make sure it's not too sharp before I buy it? I've never not bought a Spyderco because of an overly sharp blade hole, but I do check if there are multiples of the same knife in the store. FWIW, a sharp blade hole is not the only thing I check for. I check for a centered blade, good lockup, lack of grind marks and overall fit and finish. I perform a similar inspection before I buy a gun, too (or a car, or a guitar, or a bike etc.) I see this as part of being an intelligent consumer. This means that I suck exactly how? I fail to see how a desire not to injure myself indicates a deficiency of character.

As I've mentioned before, including within the post you refer to above, I have recommended precisely the fix you suggest. That's what I've done to my own knives. Given the choice, I'd rather have a perfect example from the factory rather than polishing the edge myself. I've scratched up a couple knives perfecting my "hole de-edging" technique, and as a collector, I'd rather not chance scratching up a blade if I don't have to (even though all of my knives are users) Why should this subject me to personal attack?

 

[jag-engr]

With a round hole or thumbstud the pressures and forces on the thumb remain constant thoughout the opening arc.

This is a valid point - I would like to handle a round-hole MiniGrip to compare the function to my oval-hole MiniGrip.

This is the kind of discussion I'd hoped to spark with this post!

 

[yablanowitz]

If you hoped to spark anything but a(nother) flame war, you would have selected your title with more care. Typical troll behavior.

The source of my ire against Benchmade is simple. They take another companies trademark and use it without giving credit (even if they did get permission, which I doubt). Sal gives credit where it is due. The Emerson patent numbers for the wave feature are laser engraved on every Spyderco that uses the feature, even though Spyderco's version is substantially different that the Emerson, and even though Emerson got the idea from Kershaw. Benchmade could put the circle R Spyderco in .5mm letters next to the hole to give credit where it is due, but they won't. That says something about their company, and what it says isn't good.

 

[DaveH]

That says something about their company, and what it says isn't good.

That's a good point and I'm reminded of how Les, the head of benchmade, treated a well liked (dare I say loved) representative of an online knife store.

But for a very large number of people, it only matters about the knife itself, not anything else. No amount of arguing will change that type of thinking.

 

[Boats]

Ah so you are trolling. Ok I'll keep that in mind should I read your future posts.

Ah, no, not trolling. Bemused by jihadi behaviors? Guilty.

Do you think you are changing the world or saving Spyderco one thread at a time with your posts or something grandiose like that?

Your posts are also for entertainment only even if the only one entertained by them is yourself.

 

[Spydiefan04]

OK, I got to chime in and I haven't read all posts so if someone else has already mentioned this I'm sorry. I've got Spyderco's with round holes and BM's with round and oval holes. The round hole is FAR better, and I prefer the Spyderco without chamfer because is gives a gripper surface. Out of all the Spydercos I own, which is a lot I've only had ONE that the hole hurt my thumb on, that was a FRN Delica, but I fixed it read the next paragraph.

SOLUTION to sharp Spyderhole= take a white Sharpmaker stick or some other very fine ceramic sharpening stick and run in around the inside and outside edges of the Spyderhole to polish out the roughness/sharpness, you still dont' get a truly chamfered hole and you take away the sharpness, simple solution to a minor problem, no charge for that one

 

[smcfalls13]

That's a good point and I'm reminded of how Les, the head of benchmade, treated a well liked (dare I say loved) representative of an online knife store.

Revered is probably the best word to use. That store is a knife Mecca

 

[jag-engr]

Your posts are also for entertainment only even if the only one entertained by them is yourself.

A very astute observation!

Some people on these forums get upset quite easily by people expressing opinions contrary to their own. These people just don't understand friendly banter!

 

[kgriggs8]

So I suck because I check the hole on a Spyderco to make sure it's not too sharp before I buy it? I've never not bought a Spyderco because of an overly sharp blade hole, but I do check if there are multiples of the same knife in the store. FWIW, a sharp blade hole is not the only thing I check for. I check for a centered blade, good lockup, lack of grind marks and overall fit and finish. I perform a similar inspection before I buy a gun, too (or a car, or a guitar, or a bike etc.) I see this as part of being an intelligent consumer. This means that I suck exactly how? I fail to see how a desire not to injure myself indicates a deficiency of character.

As I've mentioned before, including within the post you refer to above, I have recommended precisely the fix you suggest. That's what I've done to my own knives. Given the choice, I'd rather have a perfect example from the factory rather than polishing the edge myself. I've scratched up a couple knives perfecting my "hole de-edging" technique, and as a collector, I'd rather not chance scratching up a blade if I don't have to (even though all of my knives are users) Why should this subject me to personal attack?

So what if the knife locked up perfect, had clean grinds, was sharp as a razor, the blade was centered, the action was smooth as glass but the hole was too sharp for you. Would you toss that one aside for a less perfect knife with a hole that was not so sharp?

From what you said in your other post, you didn't mention anything about looking for other aspects of a knife other than how sharp the hole was. That is why I said you sucked. Also, I have pretty soft hands and I have NEVER even got a slight scratch from opening a Spyderco. I have owned well over 50 and played with well over 100 at least! How is it that you are getting sliced up by every other Spyderco you open?

Are you sure you are using the hole right? You know that your entire thumb is not supposed to go into the hole right? That may be your problem. If you are trying to jam your entire thumb in that little hole, that is probably where the cuts are comming form.

 

[Moodino]

None of that is necessary if you just pay or... agree to swap rights. I mean that it happens all the time that companies simply share or barter patent rights- they don't have to give credit on the product itself. Another example is the axis lock. I know that spyderco took that (concept) from benchmade so there is a good chance they agreed on a swap. That's usually The first step before one company buys the other outright

If you hoped to spark anything but a(nother) flame war, you would have selected your title with more care. Typical troll behavior.

The source of my ire against Benchmade is simple. They take another companies trademark and use it without giving credit (even if they did get permission, which I doubt). Sal gives credit where it is due. The Emerson patent numbers for the wave feature are laser engraved on every Spyderco that uses the feature, even though Spyderco's version is substantially different that the Emerson, and even though Emerson got the idea from Kershaw. Benchmade could put the circle R Spyderco in .5mm letters next to the hole to give credit where it is due, but they won't. That says something about their company, and what it says isn't good.

 

[smcfalls13]

Another example is the axis lock. I know that spyderco took that (concept) from benchmade so there is a good chance they agreed on a swap.

I believe(not 100% sure) that the construction of a Ball Bearing lock is markedly different from an Axis lock, as are the Arc Lock, and whatever it is Cold Steel calls theirs. The basic principle is the same(it locks the blade open using some kind of wedge between the tang and a stop pin), but it's like comparing framelocks and linerlocks.

Can't be sure though, I can only go by what I've heard around here. I don't own any Benchmade knives except for balisongs.

 

[ghostrider]

None of that is necessary if you just pay or... agree to swap rights. I mean that it happens all the time that companies simply share or barter patent rights- they don't have to give credit on the product itself. Another example is the axis lock. I know that spyderco took that (concept) from benchmade so there is a good chance they agreed on a swap. That's usually The first step before one company buys the other outright

Huh!

Which knife is that on? The only thing that might even come close is the Ball Lock, and it isn't the same. Furthermore, there is a difference between a patent and a trademark. Comparing the Ball lock to the Axis lock is more akin to comparing the oval hole opener to the round hole opener.

While it may be your opinion that they agreed to a swap, that isn't likely as there was no need for such since the technology is different. It's apples to oranges.

 

[moonwilson]

So what if the knife locked up perfect, had clean grinds, was sharp as a razor, the blade was centered, the action was smooth as glass but the hole was too sharp for you. Would you toss that one aside for a less perfect knife with a hole that was not so sharp?

From what you said in your other post, you didn't mention anything about looking for other aspects of a knife other than how sharp the hole was. That is why I said you sucked. Also, I have pretty soft hands and I have NEVER even got a slight scratch from opening a Spyderco. I have owned well over 50 and played with well over 100 at least! How is it that you are getting sliced up by every other Spyderco you open?

Are you sure you are using the hole right? You know that your entire thumb is not supposed to go into the hole right? That may be your problem. If you are trying to jam your entire thumb in that little hole, that is probably where the cuts are comming form.

Howdy, sir. If I'm inspecting multiple knives, (or anything else) I always pick the one that seems best overall. I think I own somewhere around 26 Spydercos now, and I've handled many, many more than that. It's very rare that they do cut me. I've only had the problem with 3 specific knives- a SS Delica, an Endura 4 and a Rescue 93mm. To be fair, I was spinning the blade between thumb and forefinger when I cut myself with the Endura and the Delica (on separate occasions, months apart- I sometimes don't learn from my mistakes) The only knife to straight-up cut my thumb was the Rescue. I tested the thumbhole on an apple and it sliced right in, like a blade. It was more or less razor sharp. I should have sent it in to be checked, but had already de-edged it with a diamond file before Sal suggested this. I'm pretty sure that knife was a fluke. I've never come across any others that were that sharp. I've been carrying Spydercos since 1990 or so, so I think I have a fairly good grasp of how to use the hole properly. And for the record, I come down on the Spyderco side of things in the OP, I prefer the hole not be chamfered, so long as it doesn't have a screaming sharp edge. The blade hole on the old Pika, for example, is horrible.

 

[Ducktaper]

If you be real nice at the Post Office you might be able to talk the counter guy out of a couple of thumb condoms for your protection from STD cuts(Spyderco Tactical Deployment). They use them to help grasp mail, but for my BM friend they might be just the ticket for his tender digit.