Boker copying the Becker line?

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willythekid said:
I agree that it's at least good they don't sell in the US but the fact that they did this at all is a damn shame... paying Ethan royalties or a licensing fee would go a long way in making things right here i would think.
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Ethan today what Buck next? Where does it stop?
 
AfghanWarrior said:
He did NOT deny Boker (Germany) was stealing others works just that they (Boker USA) would NOT import them directly into the USA. I appreciate he tried to answer, but suspect he knows the real answer would NOT be popular. I did think German Boker was respectable, but that seems to be a myth.
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It's Chinese bokers..
 
Yo Mama said:
update Boker?
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If you read his statement he can't make any more. USA Boker is not the mothership. German Boker is the place where this rip off is happening at? Sounds like USA Boker is just a middleman caught in the middle. I am not mad at USA Boker. It's Boker that has lost its way.:eek:
 
AfghanWarrior said:
If you read his statement he can't make any more. USA Boker is not the mothership. German Boker is the place where this rip off is happening at? Sounds like USA Boker is just a middleman caught in the middle. I am not mad at USA Boker. It's Boker that has lost its way.:eek:
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Yeah boker USA does care. Good guys always have been.

Boker always been good to me. I'm not happy with copies and won't buy them...but the boker stuff I will.
 
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I have a beautiful old Boker in my pocket right now, and I have several knives from the Boker and Boker Plus ranges, which I think are very good knives.

I agree with the sentiment that it's a shame Boker are associated with the Magnum range at all, because a number of them are blatant knock-offs, and they're absolute junk.

I was aghast when someone actually bought me one of the Becker knock-offs about five years ago, and it has languished in the back of a dark cupboard ever since. FWIW, while it may look cosmetically similar to a Becker knife, it's absolute rubbish. So if anyone doesn't have the morals to steer clear of these blatant knock-offs, they're just going to end up with a fat piece of 'steel' with an edge that would put a butter-knife to shame. These knives are total junk.
 
Boker should be ASHAMED of themselves.
it may even be a criminal act stealing a patented property.
they should be punished for the thieves they are.
greed brings out the worst in people.
makes my BK9 more of a treasure than ever.
 
Ok, an update to this.
As stated, Boker USA has never carried this line, and never will. After it was brought to Boker Germany's attention, they have dropped it from the catalog and will not be selling it any longer.
Thanks, Terry
 
TJT said:
Ok, an update to this.
As stated, Boker USA has never carried this line, and never will. After it was brought to Boker Germany's attention, they have dropped it from the catalog and will not be selling it any longer.
Thanks, Terry
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:thumbup:
 
I would say this is a good start... having Boker Germany paying Ethan royalties for the blades they did sell would be a good ending. It seems to me that Boker stopped this just because they thought there might be legal trouble down the road for them. It certainly doesn't feel like they stopped producing this blade just to do the right thing... they would have never made the blade in the first place if they were doing the right thing.
 
TJT said:
Ok, an update to this.
As stated, Boker USA has never carried this line, and never will. After it was brought to Boker Germany's attention, they have dropped it from the catalog and will not be selling it any longer.
Thanks, Terry
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Boker USA is 100% honest.:thumbup: Boker Germany not so much.:eek: I will keep an eye out for a Boker knife, but never a China or fake one.:thumbdn:
 
Let's get a few things straight:
If Becker had a patent on the handle design (which is highly doubtful) under intellectual property, it would have expired years ago and therefore anybody and their damn brother could produce an exact copy of any knife if they wanted to.

Ethan has no rights to protect as he is getting a royalty (or whatever term you wish to use) from Ka-Bar for each knife that THEY sell and if anyone would have a right to proceed with legal action it would be THEM not Ethan...He would also not get anything from the units sold overseas either for that reason as well.

There have been knife handles with a dropped down heel (of a shape reminiscent of EB's) made in the mid twentieth century, especially with kitchen cutlery--I have a Japanese stainless set with a handle shaped like his, but rounded instead of squared off and of course without a lanyard hole that I bought in the mid-sixties when Japanese products were first coming out.

Oh, they called it the "Camp" then you'd better sharpen your spears and attack A.G. Russell, Knives of Alaska and dozens more who also use the same sobriquet on their knives.

Is it a Becker if it has Hex or other nuts and bolts holding the scales together? Then again, you should be up in arms over many others who have done the same damn thing and TTBOMK much before.

My question is, how did this POS Chi-Comm knife make it to the USA in the first place? Was the thing bought from an American Internet or store front retailor or directly from Europe? If the prior, then they should be the ones getting raked over the coals as they brought non sanctioned (by Böker Baumwerk GmbH & Böker USA) into the country.

Böker Baumwerk GmbH did an ethical and honourable thing by dropping this model as they certainly weren't concerned over any legal action bringing brought forth for a) there would be no basis for action and b) the costs of hiring an European legal team, to proceed with any action in an European court would be cost prohibitive.
 
I wonder if the car and truck forums complain about about the same stuff? Designs are copied all the time. Look at laptops and phones.
 
SeekHer said:
Let's get a few things straight:
If Becker had a patent on the handle design (which is highly doubtful) under intellectual property, it would have expired years ago and therefore anybody and their damn brother could produce an exact copy of any knife if they wanted to.

Ethan has no rights to protect as he is getting a royalty (or whatever term you wish to use) from Ka-Bar for each knife that THEY sell and if anyone would have a right to proceed with legal action it would be THEM not Ethan...He would also not get anything from the units sold overseas either for that reason as well.

There have been knife handles with a dropped down heel (of a shape reminiscent of EB's) made in the mid twentieth century, especially with kitchen cutlery--I have a Japanese stainless set with a handle shaped like his, but rounded instead of squared off and of course without a lanyard hole that I bought in the mid-sixties when Japanese products were first coming out.

Oh, they called it the "Camp" then you'd better sharpen your spears and attack A.G. Russell, Knives of Alaska and dozens more who also use the same sobriquet on their knives.

Is it a Becker if it has Hex or other nuts and bolts holding the scales together? Then again, you should be up in arms over many others who have done the same damn thing and TTBOMK much before.

My question is, how did this POS Chi-Comm knife make it to the USA in the first place? Was the thing bought from an American Internet or store front retailor or directly from Europe? If the prior, then they should be the ones getting raked over the coals as they brought non sanctioned (by Böker Baumwerk GmbH & Böker USA) into the country.

Böker Baumwerk GmbH did an ethical and honourable thing by dropping this model as they certainly weren't concerned over any legal action bringing brought forth for a) there would be no basis for action and b) the costs of hiring an European legal team, to proceed with any action in an European court would be cost prohibitive.
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You seem to think you know a lot about this.
It is clear to me you are horribly wrong.
 
Why the bloody Hell do you think I don't? May not be as knowledgeable of first hand events as you but then I wasn't at the Camillus auction, either.

How do you know that I'm not a solicitor with a legal firm dealing in patent, copyright and trademark rights--actually, I'm not but my brother-in-law sure as Hell is!

How do you know that I don't have every model of BK&T knives since Ethan had Camillus make his knives starting in 1999 including his later cooking knives...Oh, wait a minute, I don't, as I don't have a BK8--Oh snap, that wasn't Ethan's design but Camillus', wasn't it...How do you know that I didn't buy a Jerry Fisk Magnum Camp knife in 2000 as you see that was the original name for that knife.

Look at Condor's Speed or Dundee Bowie, Hell they look very similar to the BK&T Machax--alert the media, call out the goon squads, we've got a Becker forgery here--N O T!
http://www.condortk.com/products.php?cat=12

From Knives Plus
http://www.knivesplus.com/BECKER-KNIVES.html:
After the bankruptcy of Camillus Cutlery, Western Cutlery, and Becker Knife and Tool - there was some doubt if this line would be resurrected. **Ethan was able to acquire the rights to his knives from the Camillus bankruptcy auction and with the KA-BAR manufacturing capabilities this great knife line lives again.
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** Which means that he didn't have them so therefore any knife made during Camillus' reign he would have no rights to which accounts for most of his designs.

I reiterate:
Böker Baumwerk GmbH did an ethical and honourable thing by dropping this model ...Not for moral issues, not for legal issues but as a courtesy, a gentlemanly gesture to Ethan Becker.

P.S. I forgot, a knife/part would have to be patented in Germany, England etc. if you wanted to have legal claim to that knife/part not being made in that country and sold in the country of patent.
P.P.S. China couldn't give a rat's ass for patent rights.
 
SeekHer said:
Why the bloody Hell do you think I don't? May not be as knowledgeable of first hand events as you but then I wasn't at the Camillus auction, either.

How do you know that I'm not a solicitor with a legal firm dealing in patent, copyright and trademark rights--actually, I'm not but my brother-in-law sure as Hell is!

How do you know that I don't have every model of BK&T knives since Ethan had Camillus make his knives starting in 1999 including his later cooking knives...Oh, wait a minute, I don't, as I don't have a BK8--Oh snap, that wasn't Ethan's design but Camillus', wasn't it...How do you know that I didn't buy a Jerry Fisk Magnum Camp knife in 2000 as you see that was the original name for that knife.

Look at Condor's Speed or Dundee Bowie, Hell they look very similar to the BK&T Machax--alert the media, call out the goon squads, we've got a Becker forgery here--N O T!
http://www.condortk.com/products.php?cat=12

From Knives Plus
http://www.knivesplus.com/BECKER-KNIVES.html:

** Which means that he didn't have them so therefore any knife made during Camillus' reign he would have no rights to which accounts for most of his designs.

I reiterate:
Böker Baumwerk GmbH did an ethical and honourable thing by dropping this model ...Not for moral issues, not for legal issues but as a courtesy, a gentlemanly gesture to Ethan Becker.

P.S. I forgot, a knife/part would have to be patented in Germany, England etc. if you wanted to have legal claim to that knife/part not being made in that country and sold in the country of patent.
P.P.S. China couldn't give a rat's ass for patent rights.
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Your reply reads like you typed it with your face. :jerkit:

I personally know those in charge of Boker in Germany & hold them in very high esteem.
I doubt they were aware of this mess when they inadvertently selected the item from a vendor of excrement.
I am sure they are very embarrased by this, so yes, it appears they have "done the right thing".

It is your arrogant statement of delusional opinion I take umbrage with.
Your "expert opinion" is that it is just another knife & not the crystal clear rip-off that I KNOW IT IS!

Perhaps you failed to notice that it actually has handles on it from the mold that Camillus used?
Maybe you have not met the low life copulation stains that are actually responsible for making this travesty?
Is it possible that even with your depth of cutlery knowledge, you failed to comprehend that in using those handles, they actually used a portion of MY tool path code in cutting the blade out.

This has nothing to do with International Patent Law.
I never said it did.

Quite frankly, it is ignorant wankers like you who wrap themselves up in cozy blankets of inept brilliance, who are the useful idiots that allow this sort of piracy to thrive.

I am confident the vast majority of cutlery afficianados on Bladeforums see this knife for exactly what it is; a sad & pathetic effort to make a profit on other Men's work.


By the way, my Brother in Law is in charge of Nukes on submarines, yet I manage to go through life without convincing myself I understand the inner workings of Cruise Missiles.

Go Forth & Propagate you ignorant git.
 
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