Boundaries of Legality

Your next best source IMO would be to ask a local lawyer who has successfully defended citizens against these charges. In Manhattan in New York City, the District Attorney is the "root of all evil" in this regard.
 
Will Leavitt said:
I was hitching a ride on a C130 heading to Kosovo when and Air Farce puke at Ramstein tried to confiscate my knives stating "they were dangerous and against theater policies. I'm in full battle rattle with basic loads for my M4 and pistol and they're worried about my fighting knife and SOG.... I'm an Army E7, acting 1SG and some AF lower enlisted puke is pulling that !#$!@ on me? I asked for his supervisor and when he arrived (E5) I proceeded to give them a proper tune up. I got really warmed up when their Senior NCO showed up and he and I had a heart to heart.... My Major finally drags me out of there but not before informing some 1LT he'd be shooting a heat round off to the terminal Commander.

There's stupid bastards everywhere and it's best not to let them drag you down.
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Thanks for your service.

That said, there is always the story of the infantryman whose nail clippers were confiscated because they "can be used as a weapon" but he was allowed to carry his M16 (or other rifle) onto the plane. When he confronted the security guy about the gun, the response was "it's not a weapon if you have no ammunition".

They trust this guy on a plane with a 7 pound hunk of steel he can bludgeon you with but not nail clippers??

Here is an account of the incident
 
I'm moving this to the knife Laws forum now.

The above post is for a fake letter that circulated a while back.
FWIW, about 99% of all these "I got this letter/message from a friend......" emails are fake ,and made up by whatever group is using them to foster their platform. I see them relating to everything from "Cranberry juice proven to cure cancer", to "US soldier captures Alien spaceship...." Ones about the war, TSA, guns and knives, etc. are always flying from both sides.
 
dougshoe said:
The knife laws in this country are so vague, complicated...
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Be happy the laws are not a simple ban, as the anti groups would like. The reason the laws are so vague is to try to restrict your rights with out a ban. A ban you would fight, lose a little of freedom at a time and you tend to ignore it.
 
Thanks to everyone who has mentioned Knife Rights.

It's taken over 50 years to get into the mess we are in today, the biggest erosion of our rights starting with the Federal Switchblade Act and similar state laws enacted in that same time frame. Add in various municipal regulations and the like and it is a mess. We will not turn things around overnight. But, we are making progress, both at repealing bad laws and enacting good laws as well as stopping more bad laws from being enacted. Rarely a week goes by that someone, somewhere is trying something to adversely affect your freedom to buy, own or carry the knife you choose. We're doing what we can with the limited resources available to us. I believe we are accomplishing a great deal more than we ought to be able to, given our size and resources. We aim to do a great deal more.

We are doing good stuff. Doing takes money, plain and simple. Support Knife Rights and you are making a difference. Freedom does not come free. That's just the way it is.

If you are fed up with the way things are and you want things to improve, then support Knife Rights because that's exactly what we exist for.

Join, renew or make a donations today and you will be entered to win some incredible prizes. www.KnifeRights.org
 
Daniel Fairly Knives said:
2nd amendment to the bill of rights:

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

In other words if you need to start a militia you can have weapons. Imagine if all the good Americans who follow the law were armed on those planes on 9-11... maybe the militia would have defended the state!
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I think this amendment gets misunderstood most of the time. I don't really think it's about the ability to raise a militia or not. I think the real issue was that of a standing army. IMHO the amendment should be read: "Because the government needs a standing army; it being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

It wasn't that long ago that armies were only raised when they were needed, and standing armies were relatively new. What were they being used for 250 - 300 years ago, mostly? They were used by governments to "put down" riots, rebellions, and protests. Their primary function was against the citizens.

The founders knew this, and wanted to guarantee that the army (and government) would serve the citizenry, and not the other way 'round. This is why God gave the people the right to not only keep, but bear arms. Implicit was the idea that this meant guns, but it is not an exclusive concept: Arms are arms, in their many and wide varieties; now as they were then.
 
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Personally, I believe when the second amendment was penned, blades were more important to the outcome of a battle than guns. Though the gun lobby has "owned" the 2nd for a while now, I think it was always as much about blades as guns. We own it too.
 
First, thanks Doug for all the work you have done so far! The main issue with knives is that the laws on the books for years now, have been selectively enforced almostly exclusively as add on charges or as a sole charge against a well known criminal. The general public at large was mostly free to carry any knife even if they were breaking a law ( without their knowledge). The law enforcement community in many places has changed the way the long standing laws are enforced. In most cities, officers are now "rated" on their activity, and pocket knives are often considered "weapons" by the general public. This change has caused many to look at their local laws on knives, and many who truly understand the law enforcement/court system has become concerned. You maybe be amazed how many states consider any folding knife that can be flicked open to be illegal! Never mind wheter or not this is actively enforced now as there was a good 20 year period that the same type of law was not enforced in NY, but it is being enforced with zealous now, and the law has been the same since 1958! Check your local laws, and if you find them to be unreasonable, start action to change the law. Do not break the law, but work to lawfully change the law, and never assume that " they will never arrest me" as this is not a good way to think, and your world will be shattered when your put in the back seat.....
 
"Never break the law"

1. If our forefathers believed that, they would have remained part of the British Empire, no matter how slavish the laws.

2. Knife laws about "dirks" are aimed at one race of people (Scots). If we choose to obey this law, how many more laws will we allow in the US aimed at a particular race, minority, creed, or religion?

3. How can everyone obey knife laws that no one understands?

4. How can we obey laws that make everyone guilty? Knife laws in some locations make every knife illegal. Since everyone owns knives, the laws effectively make every person a criminal.

Since I have Scottish blood, the law says I'm guilty. Since I own knives, the law says I'm guilty. Having been made a "criminal" on two counts, I have little hope at "obeying the laws."
 
When our nation was founded we rebelled against unjust laws because we had no voice in the establishment of those laws. The same justification does not apply in the USA today. In colonial times we were considered the property of the empire. We had no representation, nor any acknowledgement that we were owed any consideration. Those statements do not apply to our current situation.

If you don't like the laws as they are today, make your voice heard by your elected official. Band together with likeminded folks (e.g. kniferights.org).

Simply disregarding the law doesn't solve anything, and in fact runs counter to our interests.
 
imho dirk is simply used as an example of a fixed blade knife because you can not mention every kind.anyone of any ethnic/racial type can and has been arrested if it violates the law.highland games are an appropriate setting.please drop this part of your argument since it makes no sense.
 
After hearing about the laws in other places than Virginia it's rather sad. Everything I have found about VA states that anything other than a double edged knife (dirk), a switchblade or an OTF is fine. In VA it is perfectly legal to sell a 15 year old a Strider SMF. Yet carrying a bowie knife concealed is forbidden. Exactly what do they define as a bowie knife? An Izula? A Battle Mistress? Makes you wonder...

If you are carrying a Battle Mistress concealed even I'm going to wonder what exactly the point is.
 
When the country was founded, the US Constitution was written to protect men's rights. The voting process is not enough to protect basic human rights. The Constitution is also necessary.

1. I have no vote in laws of other towns and states other than my own.

2. The vote does not protect the minority.

Knife laws might have been voted in, but if they violate the US Constitution, they are void.
 
RE "Exactly what do they define as a bowie knife? An Izula? A Battle Mistress? Makes you wonder..."

For the law to be legal, it would have to define what the term "bowie knife" means. It doesn't, so one knows what it means. It is impossible to obey a law that one cannot understand. People on this board keep urging me to obey the laws. That is fine and wonderful, but my question is---

How can everyone obey laws which no one understands?

When I get an adequate answer to that question, then maybe we can obey US knife laws. Until that time, it is impossible to obey the laws, and every citizen remains a criminal at risk of arrest at the whim of the police.
 
dougshoe said:
RE "Exactly what do they define as a bowie knife? An Izula? A Battle Mistress? Makes you wonder..."

For the law to be legal, it would have to define what the term "bowie knife" means. It doesn't, so one knows what it means. It is impossible to obey a law that one cannot understand. People on this board keep urging me to obey the laws. That is fine and wonderful, but my question is---

How can everyone obey laws which no one understands?

When I get an adequate answer to that question, then maybe we can obey US knife laws. Until that time, it is impossible to obey the laws, and every citizen remains a criminal at risk of arrest at the whim of the police.
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The only "safe" option is to go not only unarmed, but without one of the most basic and useful tools, one that predates modern humans. The laws are written in vague terms to allow abuse/harassment/capricious application by LE. Imagine if instead of a posted speed limit, it was illegal to drive "fast".

HH
 
shotgunner said:
Thanks for your service.

That said, there is always the story of the infantryman whose nail clippers were confiscated because they "can be used as a weapon" but he was allowed to carry his M16 (or other rifle) onto the plane. When he confronted the security guy about the gun, the response was "it's not a weapon if you have no ammunition".

They trust this guy on a plane with a 7 pound hunk of steel he can bludgeon you with but not nail clippers??

Here is an account of the incident
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: You are dealing with TSA weenies who are not allowed to be armed and have no law enforcement authority (arrest powers) whatsoever. Plain jealousy, if you ask me. Our military has had a love/hate relationship with knives for years. One of the guys that I work with served in Operation Desert Shield/Desert Storm back in 1990-1991. At the Saudi base where he was stationed, US military personnel were not allowed to carry fixed blade knives on their belts, either on base or off. The same was true for sidearms. The US military brass was afraid of offending the Saudis' sensibilities. French, British and German officers (mostly pilots) routinely carried knives and sidearms openly; obviously, their military leaders didn't give two s**ts about anyone's sensibilities. I have heard that was the reason why "tactical folders", as we know them, were developed. Soldiers could carry a lightweight and strong knife with a sufficiently long blade to get the job done, in a completely concealed manner. Out of sight, out of mind.
 
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RE "Imagine if instead of a posted speed limit, it was illegal to drive "fast"."

LOL. That is exactly true.
 
I find it interesting that several of you want to take refuge behind the presumption that the laws are incomprehensible. What's that old saying... "ignorance of the law is no defense".

While I certainly agree that the miasma of laws is hard to understand, I would caution against relying on that as a justification for flouting them.

Likewise, the assertion that the laws are unconstitutional is, in and of itself, not a defense... unless you are willing and able to push that case through the system far enough to get the laws DECLARED unconstitutional. And I daresay none of us are well funded enough to make such a claim stick. If you aren't willing and able to do what it takes to make that assertion stick, it's just so much red-faced shaking of your fist at the evil but invisible entity in the sky (i.e. "the government").
 
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