Boundaries of Legality

I've been in court a lot because of street ministry and gang ministry.

People constantly tell me I'm wrong about various things. I have been doing it for 14 years, so you think I would know. I have never been arrested and never fined. The government says that you need permits to talk in public. That's another myth. The freedom of speech is an inherent right, so no permits are required. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong.

Gang ministry is another story. Sometimes people want to change their way of life and it takes time to get away from the old life. I'm willing to help people if I think they are sincere.

Oh. I almost forgot... Then there is ministry within the public schools. Everybody and his brother tells me that I am wrong. You can't have religion inside a public school! Except you can. During times when a student is allowed to speak, he can speak about his faith as much as he wants. He can bring his Bible to school. He can read his Bible in school. He can pray in school. He can hand out tracts in school. People tell me I'm an idiot and I don't know what I am talking about. When I talk to the schools, an amazing thing happens. Suddenly religion is allowed in the school. I wonder why they listen to the village idiot. Hmmm. That's a mystery.

I agree that New Hampshire is a great place to live and a great place to retire. It didn't happen by accident.
 
far off the topic, but dougshoe i hope you realize the difference between an individual mentioning personal beliefs and a state institution that is required to stay neutral.if you have never been arrested,it is possibly because putting harmless nuts in jail is not cost effective if it can be avoided.a dictionary will help you with some of the definitions you seem to have trouble with.
 
I don't have any problems with the definitions. I realize that religion is allowed in the schools. People keep telling me that students are not allowed to be religious in schools, but that is a myth. It is becoming more common for the schools to say that students can't bring their Bible to school, can't talk about their faith, can't write an essay about Jesus as a historical figure, etc. All of these things are false. According to the Constitution, the public schools cannot make rules banning religion in school.

I am sorry for being off topic. I listed this as an example. I do know what I am talking about. I have gone against the government many times. When they see that they don't have a leg to stand on, they back down.

Everybody on the internet is such an expert. How many times have YOU stood up to the government and said that their laws, regulations, or rules were illegal?
 
If a white man carries a certain knife, it's a legal tool. If a young black man carries that same knife, it magically transforms into a "bowie knife" or "dagger" which is an illegal weapon. Wow. That's fair.

10.4% of black men aged 25 to 29 are in prison, compared to 2.4% of Hispanic men and 1.2% of white men (of the same age group). The number of black men in prison has grown to five times the rate it was twenty years ago. (Justice Policy Institute, 2002)
 
not that it matters but i have faced my share of tear gas and billly clubs because of protests.unless you can cite cases where two different ethnic or racial groups were charged differently under similiar situations with similiar knives then you should drop this argument(or back it up with facts)
 
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Since "dagger", "bowie knife", and other terms in knife laws are vague, no one can know if his knife is legal. If the law said that a knife with a blade over six inches long was illegal (for example) then a person could measure a knife and know that if it was legal to carry. In contrast, it is impossible to know if the cop you happen to meet will consider your knife to be a "dagger" or "bowie knife." These kind of laws lend themselves to abuse. If we look at the history of knife laws, many were written with minorities in mind. Prison stats show the discrimination continues, and is in fact getting worse.
 
This thread is about to get closed unless it gets back on topic. When it comes to knife "legality" it depends more on what you are being arrested for than what knife you have.

Get stopped for an armed robbery and you could be charged with an illegal knife no matter what you are carrying. Get stopped for a "routine" check and you will have to play your cards. Give a cop an attitude when he stops you and you can increase your chances for an arrest.

Your best course (in NYC/LI anyway) is to carry something simple that gets what you need done. Don't carry a machete, carry a slipjoint. If you need a chef knife for work, fine. If you need a big fillet knife for work fine. But if you are an average Joe then carry a slipjoint and stay out of trouble.
 
I too am out of this thread. I have sttempted to give logical real life experience answers, but some people just don't get it......Oh and for the race issue, I had to repsond to this offically many times in the past, so here is a fact guys like you don't quote( dated a few years but still close to today's numbers): suspect's race as noted by victims of crime: black 67%, hispanic 22%, white 4%, other 7%. The police look for suspects that match what the victim says they look like. They stop and frisk persons matching that description, and those stops end up in the arrests of person breaking the law. OP please close this now.....
 
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dougshoe said:
If a white man carries a certain knife, it's a legal tool. If a young black man carries that same knife, it magically transforms into a "bowie knife" or "dagger" which is an illegal weapon. Wow. That's fair.

10.4% of black men aged 25 to 29 are in prison, compared to 2.4% of Hispanic men and 1.2% of white men (of the same age group). The number of black men in prison has grown to five times the rate it was twenty years ago. (Justice Policy Institute, 2002)
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The real problem happens well before the LEO encounter. Before any moderators or others accuse me of being racist, rest assured that I am not. I will, however, mention that young black and Hispanic men tend to dress much "louder" and "flashier" than young white men. Extreme styles include sagging pants, worn without underwear, that exposes at least part of the buttocks. Gang "colors" and a lot of "bling" also makes these guys stand out in a crowd and draw LEO attention. Sorry, but if you are carrying a concealed knife or anything else that can be considered a weapon, you should dress conservatively. My own "urban camouflage" is a casual collared shirt in a neutral color, along with a plain pair of jeans and either work boots or running shoes. Being clean-shaven and having a traditionally short man's haircut also helps out a lot. If you look like a bum or a gang-banger, I can assure you that LEOs will treat you like one. The best way to avoid LEO hassles that often lead to arrests is to blend in with one's environment.
 
TOM1960 said:
The best way to avoid LEO hassles that often lead to arrests is to blend in with one's environment.
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While I'm sure your advice is correct, I'd say it's also inappropriate. Personally, I wouldn't advise people how to slip beneath the radar of law enforcement. Assuming at least one person takes the advice and runs with it, then commits a violent crime using the now better concealed weapon, your advice would have helped them get to the point of committing the crime.

Personally, as an old white man that grew up in relatively nice neighborhoods, I don't understand the lives of the gang bangers or the homeless. I don't presume to have anything useful to say to them that would help them address the problems they face every day. There may be good reasons they wear their pants at the knees instead of around the waist. It may be that their concealed knives and guns are an essential part of the life they live. I certainly wouldn't assume otherwise.

But if I was going to offer them advice, it would be similar to the advice I offer anyone. Know the laws that pertain to who you are and what you do. Understand where you may run afowl of them.
 
tryppyr said:
...But if I was going to offer them advice, it would be similar to the advice I offer anyone. Know the laws that pertain to who you are and what you do. Understand where you may run afowl of them.
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Isn't this the crux of the whole discussion? Its not possible to know where you might run afoul of these laws or how a given jurisdiction (or individual LEO) might view any particular knife. I challenged you once to start an online catalog of legal knives based on the wording and interpretation of the penal code(s). If you could manage such a thing and stand behind the results I'd gladly pay $100.00 or more to subscribe. The thing ISN'T POSSIBLE. The next best thing is to not be stopped in the first place. No matter how law-abiding you are in every other facet of your life, the possession of ANY knife could land you in front of a judge. A chef in NYC was arrested for having a folding non-locking knife on a chain similar to a watch fob. The knife had a 2 inch blade. We are back on heels and there's no good explanation for it.

HH
 
That is a very true point. the same goes for these anti-gun laws that are constantly being revisited, revised, and in some cases completely ridicule the use of any weapon that our forefathers would use to survive, are now considered dangerous. bullshit i say
 
I think a lot of people are missing something here. Your chances of simply getting stopped and having a cop frisk you for no apparent reason are pretty slim.

If you are (otherwise) a law abiding citizen your chances of being arrested on a knife charge are almost zero. Most of the knife charges are coming when people commit other crimes and a knife is found in their possession. Or someone is showing off a knife (not completely concealed), or on the rare "routine" pat downs.

I know the "routine" pat down! IMO this is a violation of search and seizure. But if you do get stopped for this, don't have an attitude, be polite, and respectful to the officer. This goes a long way. Just ask a cop.
 
The thing you're missing is the possibility of being arrested and charged arbitrarily - this should be viewed as unacceptable, no matter what the likelihood. Instead of being able to know my rights, or even my obligations under the law I get to kiss some LEOs backside, and even that won't guarantee anything. These laws are BS and unconstitutional as written and certainly as interpreted.
 
Here's another reason why these laws need clarifying:

Pursuant to Penal Law section 265.02(1), a person is guilty of Criminal Possession of a Weapon in the Third Degree if such person commits the crime of Criminal Possession of a Weapon in the Fourth Degree as defined in subdivision one, two, three or five of section 265.01, and has been previously convicted of any crime. That is right...if you were ever convicted of a misdemeanor Trespass, Petit Larceny for shoplifting, or even Theft of Services for jumping a turnstile and you are now arrested for having a "gravity knife or dangerous knife" in your pocket, prosecutors can charge you with a felony. The ramifications are enormous as the misdemeanor is punishable by up to one year in jail and the felony by up to seven years in state prison.
 
HeavyHanded said:
The thing you're missing is the possibility of being arrested and charged arbitrarily - this should be viewed as unacceptable, no matter what the likelihood. Instead of being able to know my rights, or even my obligations under the law I get to kiss some LEOs backside, and even that won't guarantee anything. These laws are BS and unconstitutional as written and certainly as interpreted.
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I know, this happens. Unfortunately its a reality and its been there for a while. There are cops who get on a high horse, have a bad day, or simple just like targeting people. Ive been stopped by the police for no apparent reason, a few times as a teen simply because of my appearance. And once even accused by the police for a crime which they had zero reason for. Believe me, it pisses me off too. But not nearly as much as a blatant constitutional violation.

But IMO these officers are few and far between. Most are top of the line great cops. Its the rare few that give people a hassle for no reason.
 
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Stuff like this is why I prefer my rights be spelled out clearly. I'm allergic to concrete.

[video=youtube;LdkJxw1mPoM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdkJxw1mPoM&feature=player_embedded[/video]
 
You are all a bit right on the subject.
I for one, live in a country with clear laws (the Netherlands)
I can tell you, it sucks too.

Here it is illegal to:
-Bear arms of any kind as a normal citizen.
-Own any weapon apart from knives, swords, daggers, bayonettes, bows and crossbows UNLESS you have a permit to do so.
-Own Self-Defence items as Stunguns, Pepperspray, Mace UNLESS you are a millitary or governmental enforcer.

There is one thing that makes up for the non-bearing of knives:
The transporting of knives.
The law states, that when your knife is wrapped up sufficiently to prohibit you from robbing, or attacking something/someone , it is legal to have it with you.
(this is as far as i know, i might not be entirely right.)
So, thats my part on this, since i dont know alot 'bout your laws.
 
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