Bow & Drill Chapter 2: "I can taste it"

S

SkunkWerX

Joined
Jul 27, 2006
Messages
1,730
Well folks, it still seems to be coming along.
Thinned down the hearth/fireboard a bit.

-Made a new hole in the hearth, cut the Notch, and got the spindle revved up.
Making good smoke, and nice fuzzy chocolate brown dust.

On try #2 of the night, got it smoking pretty good, went a little longer, pulled it away and had a little trail of smoke coming from the notch, lasted about 5 seconds, and petered out by the time I picked it up to look.
Birth of a coal? maybe just a few more strokes wouldda had it?? dunno.

Try #3, after some undergarment adjustment, and holding my tongue out of my lips at a jaunty angle :p , revved it up again, got smoke, kept it up a little more, and again, when lifting the spindle away, saw a small vapor trail of smoke coming from the notch area. No ember.

I wasn't getting that little added effect yesterday? progress?
I feel like I'm 90%+ of the way there.

No cord slippage at all.

Doc (and others): was unable to switch to a different hearth wood this evening, maybe tomorrow? Otherwise, any other suggestions? :confused:

I'll try to put up a picture in a bit, show working end of the spindle and the hearth hole.
 
Hey Skunk,

When you see smoke, this is the signal to really start cranking on the bow. Keep going untill you have a lot of smoke or you pass out! If you have done it right slowly pull the spindle out of the socket and watch for a single trail of smoke coming off of the dust pile. This column of smoke usually signals the presence of an ember. Now wave your hand over it slowly at first to get oxygen to the ember. Don't blow on it. Too much velocity and moisture. If you have an ember it should start to glow or at least smoke more as you push air into it.

Now the trick is to carefully get it into your tinder bundle without dropping it. If you've done it right you generally have more time than you think to build the ember into a flame.

Oh... and if you do pass out, try to fall away from you setup..it's embarrassing waking up with the spindle stuck up your nose!
Have fun.
 
Mtnsct is right, the ember doesn't glow like charcoal. Once you transfer it to a tinder bundle, blow VERY gently. Now you should start to see a faint glowing. Be very careful with your baby at this point. You can extinguish it more easily that coaxing it into a flame!! Just keep blowing gently, and increase the force very slowly.

Keep up the great work Skunk!!
 
although I know nothing about this, I had to chime in. looking forward to the pics Skunk :D
 
Hey Skunk,

mtnsct pretty well nailed it. If you're getting that separate 'trail' of smoke, you probably have the coal except that it needs that extra oxygen to nourish it and help it increase in size.

There have been times that I've had that 'trail' of smoke, and I've started to fan it, the 'trail' died out, but I kept fanning, the 'trail' started up and I got that coal. In fact, there have been times I've said out loud, "I don't deserve that coal", but I got it anyway.

I agree with mtnsct about don't blow on it, especially if it's that fragile (read small), but I think we kind of part ways, a little bit, in that I fan it fairly vigorously, but not to the point of blowing the char away.

As far as, "Now the trick is to carefully get it into your tinder bundle without dropping it." he's absolutely correct that's why I always encourage people to use a coal extender - something like punky wood, true or false tinder fungus. You start the extender smouldering from your coal before you try to transfer it. Some coals, in particular those from Basswood and Cottonwood, are fairly fragile and easily break apart when transferring to the tinder bundle. The extender, on the other hand, can be thrown up into the air, fall to the ground and still be smouldering. Goodbye fragility. So, when you transfer to the tinder bundle, you transfer your coal and the extender.
But we're getting ahead of ourselves. Let's get the coal, first. I copied your post from part one and have yet to address it, but if you don't have Basswood or Cottonwood, stick with the Box Elder - it does work. I'll comment about the others in the old post, shortly.

Need more information on the undergarment adjustment. Or not. :(

As far as the spindle up your nose, it's not only embarassing, it also hurts.

BTW, as your technique improves and your successes increase, the effort required decreases dramatically.

Doc
 
Hey skunk, check out this site, best I have found.
Posted it in part 1 as well.
http://www.natureskills.com/bow_drill_fire_making.html



Several great and well labeled diagrams
bow_dr4.gif
 
Liam and others, thanks again.
As far as links go, I have scoured the web, read the sites, seen the pictures and sifted the info.

OK, let me get this straight, or make sure I have it straight:

Most websites talk heavily about the process of spinning, up to and including smoke, but not nearly as much about the output, the coal.

My understanding at this point:

The dark dust/punk created falls into the notch.
At some point the heat is great enough to cause combustion, errr, an ember to form. That Ember also forms in the notch, at the top of the Dust you have been creating.

There is a Leaf, peice of bark, tinder, or whatever below the fireboard, to catch the fledgling dust and ember, which is the means to transfer it to a tinder bundle, close by.

QUESTION: If the dust is falling down into the notch, to the base of the fireboard, is that OK? OR are we trying to keep it up closer to the top?
Does the ember stick with the hearth, or seperate and fall onto the Dust/Punk created? (Or both...I think the answer is it can happen either way).

I got through the construction and technique phase quickly, all the way up to creating lots of smoke, and now, that's where I am at.

Let's talk about the Notch, the Dust creation, the coal creation, ember, etc.

I've coaxed fire from an ember many times, like when you wake up in camp, and the fire has gone out, but you stir into the pile and find a little tiny coal you bring back to life with some wispy tinder? Done that many times.
I think I have the basic concept of "coaxing".
Use hand to fan the flame lightly, breathe contains too much moisture, all of that.

Let's talk about the Notch, the Dust creation, the coal creation, ember, etc.
That's where it is at now.

thanks again.
 
SkunkWerX said:
QUESTION: If the dust is falling down into the notch, to the base of the fireboard, is that OK? OR are we trying to keep it up closer to the top?
Click to expand...
You have to keep quite close to the top, so your board shouldn't be too thick, but not to thin or you'll end compressing your pile which is not advisable. Many books, manuals will give you suitable dimensions.

Does the ember stick with the hearth, or seperate and fall onto the Dust/Punk created? (Or both...I think the answer is it can happen either way).
Click to expand...
Hard to say, but I guess they mostly stick.

I got through the construction and technique phase quickly, all the way up to creating lots of smoke, and now, that's where I am at.
Click to expand...
Not to annoy you but getting smoke is pretty easy compared to gettong the ember. Generally problem is maintaining the "smoking period" (and slightly accelerating) for a long enough period without having the drill jumping away.

I've coaxed fire from an ember many times, like when you wake up in camp, and the fire has gone out, but you stir into the pile and find a little tiny coal you bring back to life with some wispy tinder? Done that many times. I think I have the basic concept of "coaxing". Use hand to fan the flame lightly, breathe contains too much moisture, all of that.
Click to expand...
yep, that's roughly what you do once you've got the ember.
 
Skunk,

I've gotten to about the same place you are at. Lots of smoke and just a pile of smoky brown dust to show for it! (Unlike you I walked away!) I recently watched Naked Into The Wilderness #2 - Fire & Cordage and seeing it really helped me understand better what was going on. If I'm correct, the 'dust' accumulates in/below your notch, ultimately until it clumps togetther and forms a small coal, or ember.

I'm gonna have to try this again. . . I'm inspired! :D

-- FLIX
 
FLIX said:
Skunk,

I've gotten to about the same place you are at. Lots of smoke and just a pile of smoky brown dust to show for it! (Unlike you I walked away!) I recently watched Naked Into The Wilderness #2 - Fire & Cordage and seeing it really helped me understand better what was going on. If I'm correct, the 'dust' accumulates in/below your notch, ultimately until it clumps togetther and forms a small coal, or ember.

I'm gonna have to try this again. . . I'm inspired! :D

-- FLIX
Click to expand...

Doc will be proud! :rolleyes:
I am inspiring people to make friction by fire. :thumbup:
 
I use tulip poplar for the hearth,about three quarters of an inch thick,settle the spindle before cutting the notch, which i make about a forth of the way into the socket.I try to make the notch kind of key hole shaped tapering from about .25 to half that.Im no pro but I just start slow until i get smoke,then speed up and ad alittle more pressure until i get really good smoke then give it all youve got, adding more pressure. I find that when the smoke kind of settles in around the notch and spindle i usually have a coal.

anyway,I hope my rambling helped!
 
lotoblades said:
I use tulip poplar for the hearth,about three quarters of an inch thick,settle the spindle before cutting the notch, which i make about a forth of the way into the socket.I try to make the notch kind of key hole shaped tapering from about .25 to half that.Im no pro but I just start slow until i get smoke,then speed up and ad alittle more pressure until i get really good smoke then give it all youve got, adding more pressure. I find that when the smoke kind of settles in around the notch and spindle i usually have a coal.

anyway,I hope my rambling helped!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the vote of confidnece with Poplar! And the description was a good one! :thumbup:

I took the night off. Damm cold out there tonight. Been feeding the woodstove.
Did collect some poplar, when I got home. Got a stout branch, but it may not be wide enough for a hearth, well, we'll see. I'll get back to it, maybe tomorrow.

thanks!
 
Skunk, you're inspiring me. I'm getting a lot of information from your posts, questions and answers given.

I got my parts together today, gave it a whirl, burned in the cup, got a little smoke...cut in the notch. From what I'm reading, my hearth wood, maple, may be too hard...we'll see.

Tomorrow I'm going to try for ignition, followed by liftoff...

Damn cold up here today too, 20 degrees and windy, 10 degrees right now.
 
Hey Coldwood, good deal. You get to take advantage of the learning curve!:thumbup:

yeah, pretty cold.

OK, I did just go out to the garage and give it a try.
I really think this time I had a good coal. Huge smoke. removed spindle, still good smoke, but, started looking for it and waving my hand a little, and could practically see it go out, only, didn't see a glow, just saw the smoke all of a sudden stop coming out of the notch.

yeah the maple may be suspect, if it's "hard" maple. or the hard part ofthe maple. I may cut another hearth using the softer outer portion, if need be.

It's about 20° down here too. Feeding the woodstove is my main purpose tonight.

**'m getting a lot of information from your posts, questions and answers given.**
Yeah the guys are really pitching in with all the good info and encouragement!
 
Quote-SkunkWerX:

OK, let me get this straight, or make sure I have it straight:

Most websites talk heavily about the process of spinning, up to and including smoke, but not nearly as much about the output, the coal.

My understanding at this point:

The dark dust/punk created falls into the notch.
At some point the heat is great enough to cause combustion, errr, an ember to form. That Ember also forms in the notch, at the top of the Dust you have been creating. Not necessarily at the top, although it can be.

There is a Leaf, piece of bark, tinder, or whatever below the fireboard, to catch the fledgling dust and ember, which is the means to transfer it to a tinder bundle, close by. Yes.

QUESTION: If the dust is falling down into the notch, to the base of the fireboard, is that OK? Yes, it will build up into a pile.

OR are we trying to keep it up closer to the top? This is not something to worry about. Once the ember starts and you fan it a bit it will increase in size including most/all of the char powder

Does the ember stick with the hearth, or seperate and fall onto the Dust/Punk created? (Or both...I think the answer is it can happen either way). Quite often the char can stick to the hearth. Two common methods of separating it from the hearth is to take a knife tip stick it between the char and the board and gently remove the hearth. The second method it to hold down the hearth securely (so it won't move very much) and smartly hit the hearth which causes the bond between the char and the hearth to separate and then you can gently remove the hearth.


I got through the construction and technique phase quickly, all the way up to creating lots of smoke, and now, that's where I am at.

Let's talk about the Notch, the Dust creation, the coal creation, ember, etc.

I've coaxed fire from an ember many times, like when you wake up in camp, and the fire has gone out, but you stir into the pile and find a little tiny coal you bring back to life with some wispy tinder? Done that many times.
I think I have the basic concept of "coaxing".
Use hand to fan the flame lightly, consider that I'm not there to watch you and understand what you mean by lightly, but I fan it pretty briskly

breath contains too much moisture, yes. all of that.

Doc
 
FLIX said:
I'm gonna have to try this again. . . I'm inspired! :D -- FLIX
Click to expand...

Maybe another quote for further inspiration?

"Knowledge is invisible and weighs not at all. Be mindful that in times of crisis if you can find shelter in the forest, rub sticks for fire and know which wild plants around you can be eaten you cannot easily be denied access to a home, hearth and a meal. All that is necessary is that we preserve wild places and our knowledge of them." (Ray Mears)

Doc
 
Coldwood said:
Skunk, you're inspiring me. I'm getting a lot of information from your posts, questions and answers given.

I got my parts together today, gave it a whirl, burned in the cup, got a little smoke...cut in the notch. From what I'm reading, my hearth wood, maple, may be too hard...we'll see.

Tomorrow I'm going to try for ignition, followed by liftoff...

Damn cold up here today too, 20 degrees and windy, 10 degrees right now.
Click to expand...

Coldwood, what species of Maple is it? If it's Manitoba Maple/Box Elder (Acer negundo) it works ok, but some of the Maples, like Sugar Maple (A. sacharrum - sp?) may be too hard. I haven't tried any Maples but A. negundo.

Doc
 
QUOTE=SkunkWerX:
OK, I did just go out to the garage and give it a try.
I really think this time I had a good coal. Huge smoke. removed spindle, still good smoke, but, started looking for it and waving my hand a little, don't wave it just a little, put some effort into it, and don't stop for at least 30 seconds after the smoke stops. I posted before, I've pulled coals out that had stopped smoking for a bit. Don't waste all that effort without a fight. and could practically see it go out, only, didn't see a glow, just saw the smoke all of a sudden stop coming out of the notch. Don't worry about a glow. Here's what happens. You see a wisp of smoke coming out of the pile. Maybe give the drill a few more spins just to help it along. Lay the bow and drill down quickly as you start to fan the char pile. Take care not to bang the hearth or otherwise disturb the char pile. The smoke may or may not quit. If it does, sometimes you can revive it - sometimes not. As you continue to fan it, the smoke will continue to increase. All of a sudden you'll see (and feel :D ) the glow. Fan it a bit more to increase the size of the glowing medium. Add or don't, a coal extender getting it to glow. Add the char powder and the coal extender to the tinder bundle (nest shape) and close the tinder about the glowing medium - not too tight and not too loose - experience here will determine proper amount. Start to blow slowly, at first, but continually. This does 2 things - first it increases the size of the glowing medium and second, it increases the temperature, like a bellows for a forge.Quite often, you will find you have to manipulate the tinder to keep the tinder material next to the glowing portion. Once again, experience the best teacher. Once the glowing portion is large enough, and hot enough, it will burst into flames. BTW, most people advise holding the tinder bundle above eye level to keep the smoke out of your face. I don't like this in case some burning bits fall into your eyes. To each, their own.

yeah the maple may be suspect, if it's "hard" maple. or the hard part ofthe maple. I may cut another hearth using the softer outer portion, if need be.

There's a lot of other stuff to learn, like 2-stick hearths, how to get a coal with damp wood, etc., but let's leave that until you (make that the 3 of you) get fire! :)

Doc
 
the kitchen floor works great
kitchenfloorworksgreat.gif


use all of the bow you can
useall.gif

ofthebow.gif


I like a starter hole
starterholeandnotch.gif


I also hold the bow like this, I can tighten the string if things start to slip
Iholdlikethis.gif


birch bark makes a nice catcher, but a piece of cereal box would work too
birchcatcher.gif
 
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