Bow Hunter Kills an Elephant

What makes me sick is the tone reflected in the SKY News reporter's story.

Congrats to the lady archer for a fine hunt and trophy!
 
Wow. This turned into an interesting discussion.
Having studied Media and Journalism, I know to take any story with a (Large) pinch of salt. Whether the story is true or had all the facts, the scenario was interesting and I wanted to get opinions from you learned guys. I don't hunt (Only fishing) and I didn't know if leaving an animal to die overnight (Again, how long it actually took is questionable) was standard practice. I'd been lead to believe that a quick kill was the best kill and that you shouldn't take a shot if you're not sure that the target won't drop quickly. That was the part that I found ethically questionable.
Culling to keep a population healthy has been done by man for years and I also understand that the money and meat goes to the local community. The hunting part I have no problem with.
 
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I have no problem with the lady and my hats off to her skill. Dannyboy made the point well. It doesn't say that the animal was not watched during the night or exact TOD. Howard Hill, Art young and others have done great things. Am I up to doing that type of hunt? Nope. A lot of big game has been found the next day after shooting.
 
Chinpo said:
I don't hunt (Only fishing) and I didn't know if leaving an animal to die overnight (Again, how long it actually took is questionable) was standard practice. I'd been lead to believe that a quick kill was the best kill and that you shouldn't take a shot if you're not sure that the target won't drop quickly. That was the part that I found ethically questionable.
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There exists a huge variable that is nearly impossible for a hunter to control. Good shot placement is paramount, yes. But the results of a good shot, animal to animal, can be very unpredictable. Time from shot to death is most often a case by case detail.

Being confident in the shot, maintaining good tracking and after the shot skills and following up with recovery is the ethical requirement.
It appears all requirements were met to a successful result.:thumbup:
 
Dannyboy Leather said:
I usually try to exercise caution (not always successful) when judging the ethics of a hunt that I know very little of. I am not one to trust the usual babble being spewed out by the liberal biased media. I can think of a couple of stories the media printed here locally, about some primitive equipped bowhunters, that was proven entirely false once all the facts were known. Of course, no retraction was printed in the local newspaper. Those journalists were clearly on a mission.

A few years ago, I was bowhunting here in my state, high in the Cascade Mountains. I was hunting up this mountain trail for elk when I run into a group of Sierra Club members (John Muir would turn in his grave). They asked me if I "fully intended on shooting an elk with that bow and arrow." Well, you can imagine what I was thinking, but I bit my lip and kindly made no response. They (a group of 14) pressed the issue further by challenging my morality and ethics. I told them they "had a right to their opinions but not here, to a legal hunter, who did not solicit their opinions". I kindly explained to them that Oregon has a "Hunters Harassment Law" prohibiting this type of encounter that we were now having. Obviously they didn't much care what the law had to say on the issue as they blocked my way down the trail.

At this point, rather than crack some heads, I tried reasoning with these poor uninformed folks by explaining some documented elk facts.

1. By the turn of the century, the elk were mostly hunted out and gone from the state of Oregon.

2. It was the *hunters* (such as the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation) who brought the elk herds back into Oregon - not the Oregon tax payers.

3. Hundreds of us Eastern Oregon ranchers and hunters are the ones who donate their time, money, and equipment to feed the elk during the harsh winters.

4. The purchase of elk hunting tags help to preserve the elk numbers by funding the management and research programs necessary for healthy herds.

5. They were informed that I use every part of that elk. We eat all the healthy lean meat. Tan the hides. Use the tendons (sinew) for a variety of projects. Process other parts for hide glue. Nothing is wasted.

I then proceeded to ask them what they had done to grow and protect the elk herds here in the Northwest..?? Mouths open, they offered no reply whatsoever. I then asked them (given all the information I had given them), what was so unethical about what ranchers and hunters are doing for the elk? Still, no reply (they were red-faced). Too, I told them that I noticed they were standing there in leather shoes and belts, and where do these items come from?? Isn't it cruel to kill cattle too? At that point, they mumbled a few words and headed back down the trail. Apparently I was a hopeless cause.

There is only one service road back into that mountain I was hunting on. They saw my truck when they parked their two vans further down the road. With my binoculars, I watched the group of 14 head back down the mountain, get into their vans, drive to the other side of my truck. The vans stopped, a gentleman got out of his van with a chainsaw. This guy proceeded to illegally drop several large and *living* cedar and fir trees across the road blocking my way out. They then disappeared (I couldn't make out their license numbers). It took me hours to clear the trees away that evening so I could leave.

I ask you, who was ethical in this matter? ;)
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A much better response for next time.. When they ask if you are hunting for elk, simply reply-"no, I am hunting for Sierra Club members... If you see any let me know!" There should be a season for that too. People would need 8-9 preference points to get one of those tags!
We have encountered them on trails when we are riding horseback in the wilderness. They think it is absolutely terrible to have horses on trails. Morons. I know I have already been told on this thread that we need to respect others opinions. But I draw the line with the Sierra Club.
 
It's perfectly all right to disrespect the opinions of people who won't respect yours.
 
hlee said:
As a bowhhunter I've watched deer die after being shot. My experience is that they run a ways, stop, lay down and die. The thing about dying from a arrow wound is that the animal dies by blood loss. The brain slowly fails to receive the oxygen that it needs to function. The animal, in effect, dies in its sleep. Broadheads are razor sharp, or should be. There should be relatively little pain as the razor sharp edges of the head cut the nerves rendering them unable to send pain singals to the brain.

It should be noted that except for the efforts of sport hunters, elephants are little more than walking meat to tribal africans. Walking meat that destroys farm land. While not reported in the article, the hunter must have paid a tidy sum of money to get a permit to hunt an elephant, money (very much needed) that goes to the village that sold the permit. Permits are issued by the state to the villages, that then sell them to sport hunters.

All those that are wringing their hands about the wanton loss of life of such a magnificent creature should realize that both the meat reecovered and the money paid are very much in need. No part of the elephant was likely wasted, and the permit fees are in dire need. You should also spend some time in a slaughter house to witness the painless deaths of cattle and pigs that are shipped to the supermarket.

While it likely took a while to occur, the elephat died relatively painlessly in its sleep.

Yeah, hitting an elephant from 12 yards is probably not that great of a feat. Getting to within 12 yards of an elephant within a herd of others and making the shot, knowing that elephants are some of the most dangerous game ever to be hunted, and not getting ones self killed. Now that is a feat. many gun hunters have lsot their lives to elephants. Doing one with a bow takes brass ones. BIG ONES!!
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I agree.
Elephants cause crop damage, doesn't say in the article if this one did. But the ones that do are usually shot until they stop moving.
The meat is needed.
The money is needed.
Money can't buy everything...but it can come close.
I'm a bowhunter and I can tell you after the shot, if not pressured, the animals lay down and fall to sleep and don't wake up. Thats what I think happened here. Plenty of folks shoot something late in the day and follow up the next morning. I have tracked ALOT of animals by flashlight and found them dead in the wee hours of the morning.
Yes, this was a stunt because of the bet.
Yes, she'll get kudos for killing an elephant.
I really don't see anything wrong with it.
I actually see things alot worse than this on TV now. Hunting shows are getting real hard to watch most of the time because of the "professional hunters" that are out there.
Did everybody hear about the world record Elk taken this year in Utah????
Guy bid on a Governors tag ($150K) and then an outfitter "found" him a record class bull. Final bill was over $200K the last that I heard. The "outfitter" had a team of trackers on this bull for 2 weeks until the hunter arrived in camp to go kill it.
All for the sake of getting something in the books!!!
 
DBL' now you know to carry a small digital camera to record your 'Sierra Club Kills'. Next time you meet a bunch of those clowns on a hunt take as many pictures as fast as you can snap of their faces. Then put your camera away deep in your clothes. If they ask what you were just doing tell them, "What? you guys did not see that Yellow Breasted Nutbuster in that tree?!" LOL! Now you have 'evidence for the local Rangers to prosecute the tree killers. Should be fun watching them hide out when their mugs are on the 6 oclock news. No job security in that!

I agree 100% with what you said, if not for outdoorsmen there would not be much in the way of critters to see. Most would have issues with population densities and end up starving or diseasing off IMO.
 
Bow Hunter Kills an Elephant.
This has been an interesting read , and for the record , I have been a hunter since my teens (although not a bow hunter). I was brought up that I had to eat anything I killed and had an obligation to make a clean kill with as little suffering as possible to the animal I hunted.
From the information supplied in the article - and it wasn't much -I've come to the following conclusions(and yes these are just my opinions on the subject,as everyone else has one too).
I totally disagree with the motive for this woman's hunt-on a bet that she couldn't draw the bow!! That was her motivation to hunt and kill one of Africa's Big Five-with a bow! In most countries of Africa that still allow hunting of the Big Five they require the use of a .375 H&H Magnum (as a minimum) caliber hunting rifle and your guide probably has something stouter to back you up.I don't know every countries laws regarding big game hunting but it seems the almighty dollar is the main parameter in Zimbabwe regarding it's wildlife.
This hunt should have never taken place.What is there to prove? It's almost common knowledge that almost every animal on this earth has been taken with a .22 LR, but does that make it the norm or acceptable? IMHO no.
I'll give her credit for having the nerve to sneak in amongst a herd of elephants and getting off a quick shot but I'd be willing to bet my last dollar that this was done at dusk, and after the shot, she dd'ed out of there back to the safety of some form of vehicle and got the hell outa Dodge.
Some questions need to be answered:
Why would a "guide" even allow her to try something that stupid?
Did he have enough insurance coverage to settle the inevitable lawsuit that would have been brought if she had been stomped and tusked to death in her attempt to be the first woman to kill an elephant with a bow?
Even after the fact that it was "now dark and too dangerous" to follow on foot, why didn't somebody with a scoped rifle(in a vehicle with lights of course) not put a couple of bullets into the brain of the elephant to finish the kill properly instead of leaving it to bleed out overnight?
It's incidents like this that provide fodder for all the anti-hunting zealots,and gives all humane hunters a bad image.
IMHO this woman closely missed a Darwin Award and for her next "challenge" I'll supply her with with my Busse Battle Mistress and put her in a pit with a tiger (my BF name tag) and I'll let her keep it if she survives:D
Dennis
 
Folks are quick to pass judgement with little to no regard for the customs, ethics or legalities of other societies. Its okay to have an opinion (even an uneducated one) but most of you are so oblivious to the way YOU are living your own lives that you can't see the multitude of unethical behaviour you contribute to, everyday. So please.... keep eating your storebought steaks, lamb chops, chicken... keep wearing your leather shoes, belts, coats... keep scraping your dinner plates into the garbage, emptying your waterbottles on the sidewalks, keeping your grass hydrated and manicured and don't forget to turn a blind eye to those homeless people begging for money on your way to MacDonalds. As long as we have the internet, television and newspapers we can adjust our moral filters to focus outside our own bubbles.

Excuse the rant.... it's 4 am and I can't get to sleep. Hey!!..... this was post# 999 for me!!!

Rick
 
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Magnussen said:
Folks are quick to pass judgement with little to no regard for the customs, ethics or legalities of other societies. Its okay to have an opinion (even an uneducated one) but most of you are so oblivious to the way YOU are living your own lives that you can't see the multitude of unethical behaviour you contribute to, everyday. So please.... keep eating your storebought steaks, lamb chops, chicken... keep wearing your leather shoes, belts, coats... keep scraping your dinner plates into the garbage, emptying your waterbottles on the sidewalks, keeping your grass hydrated and manicured and don't forget to turn a blind eye to those homeless people begging for money on your way to MacDonalds. As long as we have the internet, television and newspapers we can adjust our moral filters to focus outside our own bubbles.
Rick
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I tend to agree, but I'd still want to use a weapon which killed the animal as close to instantly as possible.
In a survival situation, then whatever; you gotta do what you gotta do.
But for sporting purposes, I'd match the weapon to the animal I was hunting.
Oh, and I always let the lawn get brown(hoped it would die so I wouldn't have to mow it:D), reuse my water bottles for about 3 months(just clean em out), and don't eat lamb, as I prefer to eat adult animals.
I DO ignore the begging homeless now though, as I always see the same damn ones again and again, and I got sick of seeing them drinking Listerine(LISTERINE!!!) after I'd given them some change.
 
Interesting read so far and viable comments. One note though. She would have payed for a permit ten to one. If the community got the meat or see the effects of her payment is another story dependent on where and by whomes authority. If she shot the elephant on a private game farm.....no money to the locals...maybe meat....

One thing I still struggle with grasping is to move between 30 od elephants. They keep moving and their smell is incredibly sensitive.
 
marthinus said:
She would have payed for a permit ten to one.
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Somebody would have paid, web sites mostly show a trophy cost of $12,500 in addition to outfitter and guide costs. It's a $40,000 to $60,000+ total undertaking.

At least with a bow you save on the cost of a rifle, unless you rent one. A classic Holland & Holland double barrel rifle in .500 only runs around $175,000 new.
 
Ptaltaica762 said:
Bow Hunter Kills an Elephant.
This has been an interesting read , and for the record , I have been a hunter since my teens (although not a bow hunter). I was brought up that I had to eat anything I killed and had an obligation to make a clean kill with as little suffering as possible to the animal I hunted.
From the information supplied in the article - and it wasn't much -I've come to the following conclusions(and yes these are just my opinions on the subject,as everyone else has one too).
I totally disagree with the motive for this woman's hunt-on a bet that she couldn't draw the bow!! That was her motivation to hunt and kill one of Africa's Big Five-with a bow! In most countries of Africa that still allow hunting of the Big Five they require the use of a .375 H&H Magnum (as a minimum) caliber hunting rifle and your guide probably has something stouter to back you up.I don't know every countries laws regarding big game hunting but it seems the almighty dollar is the main parameter in Zimbabwe regarding it's wildlife.
This hunt should have never taken place.What is there to prove? It's almost common knowledge that almost every animal on this earth has been taken with a .22 LR, but does that make it the norm or acceptable? IMHO no.
I'll give her credit for having the nerve to sneak in amongst a herd of elephants and getting off a quick shot but I'd be willing to bet my last dollar that this was done at dusk, and after the shot, she dd'ed out of there back to the safety of some form of vehicle and got the hell outa Dodge.
Some questions need to be answered:
Why would a "guide" even allow her to try something that stupid?
Did he have enough insurance coverage to settle the inevitable lawsuit that would have been brought if she had been stomped and tusked to death in her attempt to be the first woman to kill an elephant with a bow?
Even after the fact that it was "now dark and too dangerous" to follow on foot, why didn't somebody with a scoped rifle(in a vehicle with lights of course) not put a couple of bullets into the brain of the elephant to finish the kill properly instead of leaving it to bleed out overnight?
It's incidents like this that provide fodder for all the anti-hunting zealots,and gives all humane hunters a bad image.
IMHO this woman closely missed a Darwin Award and for her next "challenge" I'll supply her with with my Busse Battle Mistress and put her in a pit with a tiger (my BF name tag) and I'll let her keep it if she survives:D
Dennis
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To answer you question about them finishing it off with a rifle. Often times it is illegal to do because people would not make as much of an attempt at a good kill shot and would simlpy hit it in the ass then go shoot it with a rifle. The reason for hunting with a now is simply the challenge of it. The elephant did not suffer, he only went 500 yards so a large caliber rifle obviously was not needed and would have been no more effective in this case. She made a perfect shot. Job well done.
 
Ptaltaica762 said:
why didn't somebody with a scoped rifle(in a vehicle with lights of course) not put a couple of bullets into the brain
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Any shooting from a vehicle has been considered highly unethical since I believe the 1930's and is probably illegal as would be the use of lights. Certainly one would think a "Professional Hunter" would loose the license for allowing it now.
 
The elephant was DEAD when it collapsed!!

When an animal is hit by a broadheaded arrow it causes severe hemorrhaging, i.e. excessive bleeding. For an animal that size to travel 500 yards is nothing. And for it to collapse at the end, means it died there.

So said, she hit the animal at 12 yards, a low, angling up hit would mean LOTS of blood loss. She was shooting appropriate equipment and had plenty of pre-planning and preparation for the shot. The blood would have been pumping into the chest cavity and exiting at a rapid rate.

Also, when one shoots an animal it is best to leave it alone for a minimum of 30 minutes to make sure it has expired before attempting to get close, esp. when dealing with something dangerous.

So if you take the "slant" out of the story and get the facts back into it. It sounds like a well executed hunt with a proper finish. A nice close shot with a good shot placement and a downed animal within sight. A bowhunter couldn't ask for much more!
 
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