"Bowie" with brass strip along back spine

The picture of the Bowie from Mr. Brock is mine. I custom ordered it a few months ago.
I am not very happy about its' picture being up, I was enjoying thinking of it as being a one of a kind handmade knife. That was probably an illusion, but it was enjoyable nonetheless. Would you mind taking the pics down for me?

I would say that the idea of parrying and blade-catching additions to weapons has a very long history in Western weapons design. From rapiers to bowies, it's all been tried.
Whether or not it worked is not relevant to it's historical reality.
I would also like to say that Jim Bowie probably owned and gave away dozens of knives.
People havent changed much. As soon as Jim got famous, he probably had knives coming in the mail from all over.
People send Clint Eastwood knives in the mail all the time.
JP Moss sent a few knives to Clint over the decades and Clint liked his work so much, they became friends and eventually JP made the bowie used in the movie "Unforgiven."
I'd be surprised if there aren't 5 or 6 totally different knives that Jim Bowie himself wouldn't point to and say "Hey, thats my knife."
 
DannyinJapan said:
The picture of the Bowie from Mr. Brock is mine. I custom ordered it a few months ago.
I am not very happy about its' picture being up, I was enjoying thinking of it as being a one of a kind handmade knife. That was probably an illusion, but it was enjoyable nonetheless. Would you mind taking the pics down for me?
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No problem. Your knife is a copy of a Musso Bowie and that is almost identical to a knife I saw in a history museum in Texas so it isn't something new or one of kind other than it was hand made through a small forge as was the one I saw at the Museum that is older than or grandfathers put together. Nevertheless, I respect your request and I have taken down the image but don't be surprised if I post my knife when it is completed for the same reasons I explained above. Also, I did not see a picture of your knife until I presented an interest, with detailed description, of the type of knife I wished to have him manufacture for me. Afterward, it was just a matter of ordering one with a brass strip, type of steel for the blade, and blade finish as well. Sorry, but your knife is not a brand new design that is one of a kind. Somebody else beat us to it over 170 years ago. If you are ever in Austin, TX go to the Texas History Museum and on the second floor you will see that someone by the name of Robinson was carrying your knife (with brass strip) a very long time ago. So they say...
 
Anjin said:
They appear frequently on eBay. Of course, what you get is a gussied up Case version of the Carlson Marine Raider V-44 from World War II, Read Bagwell's book for a critique -- although he does say that it is one of the best designs available in that era. IOW, you can call it a Bowie if you wish.
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The knife went for $88.75. Eventually, the link will be dead along with the images so here is the item description from the Ebay page...

RARE FIND! Case XX (Lightning SS, 4 Dot, 1986) #1836 BOWIE in Original Box with papers. True Bowie with the brass parry strip. Case produced this heavy knife as a reproduction of their famous V-44 survival-bowie made during WWII. Overall length is 14 1/4" with a HEAVY 9 1/2" blade. Black handle is excellent with 3 large brass pins each side and a heavy Brass Crossguard. Excellent Jim Bowie etch on the blade. Thick black leather sheath. Knife is UNUSED, Unsharpened as from the factory. Box is also excellent with a few scuffs. Really super collector item!! Thank You.
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The model number is misleading as Texas gained Independence in 1836. IMO a "Bowie" today is just a big knife.
 
Culpeper said:
The model number is misleading as Texas gained Independence in 1836. IMO a "Bowie" today is just a big knife.
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Seems fair enough since no one knows for sure what any knife handled by Jim Bowie looked like. Knife literature and websites are full of speculation, some even informed.
 
"Bowie" and "Arkansas Toothpick" are synonymous.

Also, what I find interesting that some states during the 1830s were using the term "Bowie" to outlaw the type of knife. Arkansas for example made sure that if you killed anyone with a "Bowie" or "Arkansas Toothpick" type of knife that you were guilty of murder no matter what the circumstance. Here is a case from Tennessee based on a law in 1838 concerning the use of a "Bowie" knife. The act of 1838 made it illegal to sale or use a "Bowie". This is why I think a "Bowie" is just a big knife. The term was used during the time of Jim Bowie.

http://www.guncite.com/court/state/37tn495.html
 
Thanks for taking down the pic. I do appreciate it. IF you send me an email, I'll send you more pics of the knife.
It is sitting on my desk as I type.

I know it is a copy of the Musso, that's what I ordered sans the brass strip.
It's not just a copy, though. Dan makes his knives in the same way they were made back then. His knives are not stamped polished factory-perfect clones. They are realistic and period-accurate. His stuff is favored by reenactors. I have studied bowie knives a bit and I decided I liked the Musso the most. I have not found a good copy of the Musso out there, so I ordered one from Dan. Most Musso copies do not have the correct curvature in the blade nor the proper narrowing...
 
DannyinJapan said:
Thanks for taking down the pic. I do appreciate it. IF you send me an email, I'll send you more pics of the knife.
It is sitting on my desk as I type.

I know it is a copy of the Musso, that's what I ordered sans the brass strip.
It's not just a copy, though. Dan makes his knives in the same way they were made back then. His knives are not stamped polished factory-perfect clones. They are realistic and period-accurate. His stuff is favored by reenactors. I have studied bowie knives a bit and I decided I liked the Musso the most. I have not found a good copy of the Musso out there, so I ordered one from Dan. Most Musso copies do not have the correct curvature in the blade nor the proper narrowing...
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Those are the same reason I like Mr. Brock's forge. I'll send you my email address. Thanks. I should have broke of the rule of no taking pictures inside the museum but being a native Texan in that museum and taking pictures would have been sort of sacreligious.
 
pootsythesamurai said:
what is the correct curvature and narowing?
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Here is an image of what might be one of the originals...

Musso-308.jpg
 
Gotta revive this one again...

I always thought the bar was meant to protect the blade when used as a tool...a good bowie wasn't just for stabbing and cutting.
 
IIRC, the earliest documented Musso style brass back bowie knife was the one shown on the cover of Peterson’s American Knives. Many believe this style of knife to be fantasy knives that emerged after the Iron Mistress movie popularized the Bowie knife.

n2s
 
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not2sharp said:
IIRC, the earliest documented Musso style brass back bowie knife was the one shown on the cover of Peterson’s American Knives. Many believe this style of knife to be fantasy knives that emerged after the Iron Mistress movie popularized the Bowie knife.

n2s
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Glad for your post. Didn't have this in my collection. Found a used copy on Amazon, with a photo, and the jacket is in great condition. New, the book runs for nearly $500. The one I purchased was a 1st edition for only $100.

Many of the denials about the authenticity of the Musso claim that these knives originated in the 1970's. There's even a photo taken in London, 1972, of a known forgery. This book may not prove the knife is authentic, but it is certainly definitive proof that the knife existed prior to the 70's. More likely, the forgeries of the 70's were based on the appearance of this knife in this book.

The Iron Mistress appeared on TV 1952. The Bowie on the cover of the book appears to be the Sweet Bowie, and its appearance in 1959 almost certainly suggests it predates the Iron Mistress.

As for the brass backed knife, there is a lithograph published in 1901, in Chicago, showing a "backed" bowie knife. Of course you can't tell the material of the backing, but the very "idea" of a knife with backing is illustrated. There is also a Currier & Ives print (which for the life of me I can't lay my hands on right now) published in 1864 showing such a knife, again illustrating that the idea dates back that far. It is simply incorrect that such knives originated in the 1950's, as some claim.
 
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IRTexian said:
......As for the brass backed knife, there is a lithograph published in 1901, in Chicago, showing a "backed" bowie knife. Of course you can't tell the material of the backing, but the very "idea" of a knife with backing is illustrated. There is also a Currier & Ives print (which for the life of me I can't lay my hands on right now) published in 1864 showing such a knife, again illustrating that the idea dates back that far. It is simply incorrect that such knives originated in the 1950's, as some claim.
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Would this be considered a "brass backed" bowie?

It is probably way closer to the appearance of Bowie's sand bar knife than the Musso knife.

DSC01129.JPGDSC01128.JPG

n2s
 
not2sharp said:
Would this be considered a "brass backed" bowie?

It is probably way closer to the appearance of Bowie's sand bar knife than the Musso knife.

View attachment 1615733View attachment 1615734

n2s
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It is hard to discern, but I do seem to see a "backing" on the blade. By some definitions, yes the knife would be considered a "Bowie". So, if it is backed and the backing is brass, this knife would be considered a brass backed bowie. My own definition of a "bowie" is more discerning, but if the knife is not a "fake", it should be considered as further evidence that brass backing did appear on knives of the 19th century.
 
not2sharp said:
Would this be considered a "brass backed" bowie?

It is probably way closer to the appearance of Bowie's sand bar knife than the Musso knife.

View attachment 1615733View attachment 1615734

n2s
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In a thread titled "The Original Bowie Knife-Where Is It", from around 2000, there is a reference to a Bernard Levine and the comment to search his "forum" (they may have meant thread) on BladeForum.

I did a search and came up zilch. I gather he was a valuable source.

Do you, or anyone, have a link?

Also, on several old Forums, I find posts by CC Nolen (Chris Nolen of West Monroe, LA) dated back around 10 years ago.

Is he still posting anywhere? Again, I've searched and haven't found anything. I've been reluctant to contact him directly.
 
IRTexian said:
In a thread titled "The Original Bowie Knife-Where Is It", from around 2000, there is a reference to a Bernard Levine and the comment to search his "forum" (they may have meant thread) on BladeForum.

I did a search and came up zilch. I gather he was a valuable source.

Do you, or anyone, have a link?

Also, on several old Forums, I find posts by CC Nolen (Chris Nolen of West Monroe, LA) dated back around 10 years ago.

Is he still posting anywhere? Again, I've searched and haven't found anything. I've been reluctant to contact him directly.
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Are you looking for a specific Bernard Levine thread or are you looking for his subforum?
 
IRTexian said:
In a thread titled "The Original Bowie Knife-Where Is It", from around 2000, there is a reference to a Bernard Levine and the comment to search his "forum" (they may have meant thread) on BladeForum.

I did a search and came up zilch. I gather he was a valuable source.
Click to expand...
Bernard Levine is an eminent and respected knife expert, editor of Knife World, author of several books etc........

Bernard Levine's Knife Collecting & Identification

Moderated by Bernard Levine, "The Knife Expert"; author of Levine's Guide to Knives and their Values, Blade Magazine Correspondent (since 1974) and Knife World Editor (since 1978).
bladeforums.com bladeforums.com
 
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