Boye Dent?

i owned the mini manix and i wondered the same thing. i think its becuase it doesnt really need one. i used the knife in just about every variety of grip i could think of and never had a problem with it. its not like a thinner handled knife where your fingers will put pressure on a small area. hopefully someone else has a better answer... -CB
 
I've heard that if you grip a back lock knife tightly enough, the pressure from the skin of the palms can possibly depress the lock and release it while doing tough cutting. The dent is supposed to reduce the probability of this happening.

I don't think I've ever had a problem with a back lock, but the dent looks nice and makes it easy on the thumb to press down to close. All my opinion, of course.
 
I understand the purpose of the dent but I just wondered if the Chinook and Manix had stiffer springs that preclude the necessity of it.
 
The selection of which knives receive, and are spared, the Boye dent is a total mystery to me. Sometimes I swear Sal must just flip a coin. The Kopa, one of the least "tactical" of Spydercos is cursed with one, while the Chinook, designed by James Keating specifically to excel at "the back cut" is spared. If that's not grounds for a WTF? I don't know what is. :D

Paul
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My guess would be that the Dent would weaken the lock-strength rating on the Chinooks and Manixs, which are MBC (the highest) rated.;)

Regards,
3G
 
THG said:
How do you figure that?
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Just a guess. I can't figure out any other reason why the dent would be absent in those two giants (the Chinook and Manix), and Spyderco always has a reason for doing (or not doing) things.;)

Regards,
3G
 
3Guardsmen said:
Just a guess. I can't figure out any other reason why the dent would be absent in those two giants (the Chinook and Manix), and Spyderco always has a reason for doing (or not doing) things.;)

Regards,
3G
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When did the Boye Dents come around in Spyderco knives? Is it possible that those models are older than the Boye Dent? Because I could have sworn that the Sprint Run FG Manixes had the dents. Edit: No, it doesn't; nvm...
 
If you were to pick up the old designs sans Boye Dent and squeeze them in a gorilla grip (really, the only appropriate grip in a knife fight, in my not-so-humble opinion), you might notice the lock starting to give way. I could do that with my old SS Endura and SS Police. Can't do it with the Boye Dent equipped versions, but I could never do it with my Chinook. The lock was just too strong, so I guess Sal and friends decided it didn't need it.

But one thing is for sure: the presence of the dent does not, in any way, weaken the lock. I think it's a great idea for the knives that need it.

Just a guess.
 
THG said:
When did the Boye Dents come around in Spyderco knives? Is it possible that those models are older than the Boye Dent? Because I could have sworn that the Sprint Run FG Manixes had the dents. Edit: No, it doesn't; nvm...
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No, unforunately the Boye dents predate the Chinooks and Manixs (is Manii the proper plural of Manix?). I wish the Chinooks and Manixs did have the dents.

shangchi108 said:
If you were to pick up the old designs sans Boye Dent and squeeze them in a gorilla grip (really, the only appropriate grip in a knife fight, in my not-so-humble opinion), you might notice the lock starting to give way. I could do that with my old SS Endura and SS Police. Can't do it with the Boye Dent equipped versions, but I could never do it with my Chinook. The lock was just too strong, so I guess Sal and friends decided it didn't need it.

But one thing is for sure: the presence of the dent does not, in any way, weaken the lock. I think it's a great idea for the knives that need it.

Just a guess.
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I had the opposite experience. I have easily been able to move the lockbar on my late model Chinook I (which has S30V steel) in a hammer grip, that's a reason I've switched to a saber grip when practicing MBC with my Chinook. It doesn't come unlocked, but the lockbar moves towards opening, which scares me a little. I've been thinking of giving it an after-market Boye dent.

Regards,
3G
 
The CH3 lock button is not wide enough to need a dent. The dent is also more needed on thinner knives because the CH3 has the wide G10 grips they keep you from hitting the grip.
Sabre grip is definitely my favourite MBC grip. You risk spraining your thumb but you gain a lot of control over the blade
 
Unsub said:
The CH3 lock button is not wide enough to need a dent. The dent is also more needed on thinner knives because the CH3 has the wide G10 grips they keep you from hitting the grip.
Sabre grip is definitely my favourite MBC grip. You risk spraining your thumb but you gain a lot of control over the blade
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Good obesrvations, Unsub! I hadn't thought of that. Perhaps handle thickness (handle shape) is the reason they don't have or need the dent.:thumbup:

Regards,
3G
 
We got into the Boye dent after Michael Janich demonstrated some issues with accidental un-locking in some situations. They were not easily done, but possible. Safety is a very important area for us.

We found we can eliminate the dent if we greatly reduce the size of the lock well. It's still being tested.

There is another way to handle the question, by eliminating the well on the scales and just leaving a small well inside the liner.

we're still learning.

sal
 
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Sal, I can understand the theoretical benefit of the Boye dent as an "fix" for an existing knife with too deep a lock well. Where I have a bit more trouble is with the logic of designing brand new knives that require it. It would seem better to design the relationship between the parts so the "fix" would not be needed. Even more puzzling to me is the fact that on some knives with Boye dents, lock release occurs long before the dent "bottoms out" in the lock well, while others require it to be depressed below the scales/liners, as illustrated by the photo below.

compare_4_dents.jpg

In the case of the C83 Persian, the glint of metal you see is not the lock bar, it's the off-side liner. Now, that particular Persian is an extreme case, but none of my six unlock with anywhere near as much lockbar showing as the Police III, Endura, or even the Stretch II in that photo. The Persian, unfortunately for me, gets a "double whammy", the lock spring is also one of the stiffest on any Spyderco.

My other source of bafflement is the choice of which knives receive the dent. I would assume the situations where Mr. Janich found a "dentless" knife would unlock were SD related and somehow I don't see many using either a Jester or a Kopa that way, or any other where "gorilla gripping" would be.

Paul
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Sorry Sal,

Great as Spyderco is and the thinking and reasoning is usually of a higher calibre, the Boye Dent issue I have to agree with Paul.

The dent on gent's folders such as the Kiwi and Kopa....maybe Ladybug and any of the small to mid-size folders really baffles me as well.

On a visual design point of view, folders with such beautiful sinewy lines such as the Schempp Persians really would benefit from a dentless design. The locks on those are very strong in any case and the chance of unlocking those are slim to nil.

I vote for dentless designs on all folders bar the ones specifically designed for MBC/ SD
 
The Deacon said:
Even more puzzling to me is the fact that on some knives with Boye dents, lock release occurs long before the dent "bottoms out" in the lock well, while others require it to be depressed below the scales/liners, as illustrated by the photo below.

[
In the case of the C83 Persian, the glint of metal you see is not the lock bar, it's the off-side liner. Now, that particular Persian is an extreme case, but none of my six unlock with anywhere near as much lockbar showing as the Police III, Endura, or even the Stretch II in that photo. The Persian, unfortunately for me, gets a "double whammy", the lock spring is also one of the stiffest on any Spyderco.

Paul
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I'm guessing that there is a tollerance issue with all of those Persians. I would guess that they are making the catch or tooth of the lock to deep/long. To bad they don't have screws. On the others, you are not considering that the point of closing could happen sooner of there was a force applied to the blade.
 
oli said:
I'm guessing that there is a tollerance issue with all of those Persians. I would guess that they are making the catch or tooth of the lock to deep/long. To bad they don't have screws. On the others, you are not considering that the point of closing could happen sooner of there was a force applied to the blade.
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My guess is that the dents are added to the the lockbar by hand. My "evidence" for that is strictly circumstantial, but there are models (like the C83) where I have a sufficient number of specimens to detect relatively gross differences in the dent's depth, location, and orientation between them. As for the "others" am not sure what you are saying. I'm not sure I agree with your idea that pressure on the blade would change the release depth but if the blade released sooner, the distance between the bottom of the dent and the bottom of the lock well would be even greater. As for screws, don't think I'd ever monkey around with modifying lock engagement depth and they'd sure as hell ruin the looks of the knife.

Paul
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My Personal Website - - - - - - A Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting - - - - - - Kiwimania
Dead horses beaten, sacred cows tipped, chimeras hunted when time permits.
Spyderco Collector # 043 - - WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
It's easy to grin when your ship comes in and good fortune and fame are your lot, but the man worthwhile is the man who can smile with his shorts twsited up in a knot. - Morey Amsterdam
 
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