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please quote where I have said anything other than mini-Bugout. That’s what the ad was about. That’s what I have said in every post in this topic. I’ll wait for you to review and quote.
Brands to stay away from
- Thread starter Weasipoint
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I‘d prefer a company ensure they can stock their actual flagship production models before worrying about producing sprint runs. Maybe you like sprint runs better - OK.
I don’t know anything about ordered placed in 2018 or where Jeff Bezos comes into play?
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Did you read where I wrote that the Bugout is available in more corrosion resistant steels at the Custom Shop and the mini was coming soon?
Any comment on my counter regarding sprints or advertising or pandemic driven manufacturing schedules?
I’ve responded to the substance of your rant. There’s room for intelligent discourse but you keep coming back to one four letter word.
There’s not any point in hashing this out further. This thread was destined to become a pet peeve gripefest from the get-go anyway.
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I am in full support of a company (especially a small business, which most of these companies are) doing just about anything they need to in order to stays in business during this pandemic. No argument there.
To answer your question.
ESEE delayed a new model for well over a year to ensure they can meet demand for existing core models.
GEC is basically entirely sprint runs.
Spyderco (who I respect and like as a company) fell somewhere in between.
I prefer the ESEE model and have completely stopped buying GECs because of their model. Personal preference. Not asking you to agree.
Sounds like you don't understand how "things work". Dealers etc. order knives etc. for their lines years in advance. So that that spring run you didn't like isn't some sort of get rich quick scheme hatched in a bar a few weeks ago. It's been planned for a along time.
In the meantime though a huge material shortage along with shipping issues and lockdowns courtesy of a worldwide pandemic (that's still going on) has affected all those plans.
They've been left with a choice. Tell their dealers sorry we're going to drop the ball & make PM2s to stock in CO or follow up on their word; and if you care to think about it those knives that Spyderco lists and sell at full MAP make way more money for them since there is no middleman.
But instead folks demand that they want the participation trophy they're entitled too. If there are no PM2s they say they want that and conveniently ignore the "flagship" product lines like like Delicas or Endura that are in stock. It's not about getting a knife at all about complaining like the word's worst Karen. Just like the people complaining that Bezos should have used his money to pay their bills or solve whatever personal problems they have.
Just for fun; what "flagship production model" can't you buy?
000Robert
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Well, that's what I'm talking about, really. I just don't think you can deny that some very well known brands have a sort of imagery they portray in order to make people feel like "See, if you carry our products, this could be your life!" As an example, about a year ago, Gerber was pushing the "Pacific Northwest flannel, bearded, tattooed, outdoorsy, leaning against a classic motorbike at a mountainview location at dusk while looking out over the land" kinda thing. It was almost like they were trying to be The James Brand.
Sounds like the old, "Marlboro Man".
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BHQ did not place an order for lime green, M4 Para3 LW sprint run 3 years ago. Nobody did. The Para3 LW wasn’t even a thing 3 years ago. Just stop it.
Which is exactly what ESEE did and in my opinion that’s a better option. You disagree. Spyderco disagrees. That’s fine.
As I’ve stated, the PM2. Could I find it somewhere? Probably. Is it available at my preferred vendors. No. Zero are available from them. Is it available from Spyderco directly. Zero outside the Colorado Sprint run.
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If not being able to find a particular knife at your preferred dealer is the worst thing that's happening to you right now, you're one of the luckiest people on this planet.
As others have said, the entire supply chain, from raw materials to final assembly, has been majorly disrupted in this past year. Companies are fulfilling orders as they can, and sometimes that means a knife you don't want is made before the one you do.
As for advertising, you and anyone else on this forum are most likely not the target audience for those ads. They're targeted at regular people who like to be outside, whether it be hiking, camping, fishing or surfing. That's the whole point of the "lifestyle" advertising. It's aimed at people who do those things, or who aspire to do those things, and says "hey, you can use this knife while doing what you do" even if they had never thought of carrying a knife while doing that particular activity. If they were advertising directly to knife nuts like us, they would be talking about steel composition, ergonomics, handle material and action.
As others have said, the entire supply chain, from raw materials to final assembly, has been majorly disrupted in this past year. Companies are fulfilling orders as they can, and sometimes that means a knife you don't want is made before the one you do.
As for advertising, you and anyone else on this forum are most likely not the target audience for those ads. They're targeted at regular people who like to be outside, whether it be hiking, camping, fishing or surfing. That's the whole point of the "lifestyle" advertising. It's aimed at people who do those things, or who aspire to do those things, and says "hey, you can use this knife while doing what you do" even if they had never thought of carrying a knife while doing that particular activity. If they were advertising directly to knife nuts like us, they would be talking about steel composition, ergonomics, handle material and action.
Well there you go; don't want to actually buy a knife just want to complain about stuff. Good news right now is that if there was a 40 hour day & a 9 day week there would be still stuff waiting to be complained about. Good times!
000Robert
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The surfer has several knives listed as his edc. Including Benchmade’s H2O knife. You are trying too hard to be outraged.
I was not quoting you.I was not complaining...
000Robert
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It looked like you were including me with TradTrapper. My bad I guess.
I'd never do that to !you
But it is pretty funny since since it went from "there are no knives at all" to "they are no longer making the particular knife I need" to "the item I wish to purchase is not ins stock at my favorite retailer" . So the penny drop there is that they really are making and shipping those PM2s.
No moving the goalposts I'm sure but meantime at the day job in the NFL; Oh I know you ran that interception back 99 yards for a touchdown but I've just moved the uprights to Wilmington so there's still 200 6400 yards to go now.
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The para 3 lightweight came out about 2.5 years ago, so close enough. I pre-ordered mine when blade hq had the pre-order open, and got it in May of 2019. They were slow with it, as others had theirs 3 months or so before I got mine.
Jordan from DLT said they put orders in 2 years in advance, and Sal has corroborated that time frame. And Sal is not one to drop the ball when someone orders something. He sticks to the production schedule, and is honest about it.
That's also a reason why it seems there's never enough in a run. Dealers don't want to commit to a double sized run when they don't know if they will recoup their investment.
As for regular production models... Spyderco has been at capacity for a while, they can't do anything about it. They are going to expand though, again.
Anything you want to know about spyderco and their production, you can ask Sal directly in the spyderco forum here or on their own forums.
Re: knives and marketing:
Companies of all kinds have been marketing an image rather than substance for more than a century. Examples:
Coca-Cola never mentions the nuts and herbs and spices. Look at the ads: it's a "friendly" drink.
Beer is always served on the beach, isn't it? Coors Silver Bullet always displayed a most friendly group in their tv ads, kind of like "Cheers" in a bar. The message had nothing to do with grain or hops, it was: "you drink our beer and you'll never be lonely." Smart move, btw: an ad showing a guy sitting alone in a bar wouldn't seel much product.
Cars: among the worst examples. Ever see a car advertised as Model 657 with a such-and-such engine? You never will. Names are always associated with "cool" places like, e.g. Tucson or Yukon. Notice there is no GM Hoboken, no Ford Bayonne, no Chrysler East St. Louis. The idea is that you will "feel" like you're driving through wide-open spaces with the wind in your hair, even though your driving is limited to the suburbs of Cleveland.
Absolute worst: ladies' perfumes. I once dated somebody who went through training at Estee Lauder. The instructor explained that while scents actually are based on certain botanicals, they are marketed and sold exclusively on pitching to a specific market. Remember "Charlie" for women (look it up if you're not my age). The scent was not really different from others, but it was "the" perfume for young, hip, professional women, based on marketing. And it sold that way.
Marketing has been a cornerstone of American business at least since the 1920s, with some examples going back decades before that. Nabisco sold Uneeda Biscuits partially with a good product, but mostly with a brilliant name brand that captured the public's imagination: U-Need-A biscuit! Get it1 Corny now, but in 1890 a genius move. Not so successful competitors: Wanna Cracker, Taka Cracker (I'm not making this up).
I'm not suggesting anyone like or agree with this; I have my qualms. But it's no surprise when knife companies adopt a very basic business strategy.
Companies of all kinds have been marketing an image rather than substance for more than a century. Examples:
Coca-Cola never mentions the nuts and herbs and spices. Look at the ads: it's a "friendly" drink.
Beer is always served on the beach, isn't it? Coors Silver Bullet always displayed a most friendly group in their tv ads, kind of like "Cheers" in a bar. The message had nothing to do with grain or hops, it was: "you drink our beer and you'll never be lonely." Smart move, btw: an ad showing a guy sitting alone in a bar wouldn't seel much product.
Cars: among the worst examples. Ever see a car advertised as Model 657 with a such-and-such engine? You never will. Names are always associated with "cool" places like, e.g. Tucson or Yukon. Notice there is no GM Hoboken, no Ford Bayonne, no Chrysler East St. Louis. The idea is that you will "feel" like you're driving through wide-open spaces with the wind in your hair, even though your driving is limited to the suburbs of Cleveland.
Absolute worst: ladies' perfumes. I once dated somebody who went through training at Estee Lauder. The instructor explained that while scents actually are based on certain botanicals, they are marketed and sold exclusively on pitching to a specific market. Remember "Charlie" for women (look it up if you're not my age). The scent was not really different from others, but it was "the" perfume for young, hip, professional women, based on marketing. And it sold that way.
Marketing has been a cornerstone of American business at least since the 1920s, with some examples going back decades before that. Nabisco sold Uneeda Biscuits partially with a good product, but mostly with a brilliant name brand that captured the public's imagination: U-Need-A biscuit! Get it1 Corny now, but in 1890 a genius move. Not so successful competitors: Wanna Cracker, Taka Cracker (I'm not making this up).
I'm not suggesting anyone like or agree with this; I have my qualms. But it's no surprise when knife companies adopt a very basic business strategy.
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Of course they can. They can stop doing sprint runs and do 100% production runs.
Same way GEC could do runs of #15 for a year straight.
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