Breaking knives

How specifically do you break your knives, and what is this hypothetical situation that you need this toughness for. I have asked these questions over and over and all I get is prying boulders off my leg, right. Chris
 
A thin knife with a poor grind will cut worse than a thick knife with a good grind. For instance my Trailmasters are wicked slicers and they are 5/16" thick.
 
Second Try. First would not load.
I used to carry a .22 when I went in the woods. Then one day a gun nut asked me why? While explaining I realized that if I NEEDED a gun I needed more than a .22. Now I carry a .357. Still have never had to use it, Hope I never do. But if I need it, I need it.
Same for knives. If a SAK or Multi-tool will not do what you need, then you need a larger more sturdy knife. When I go on a general hike I do not carry big knives, axes, big saws. Too heavy. Same reason I do not carry a rifle (our area problems are Bears and Cougars and yes I know two people that have been attacked near my cabin).
I carry a strong 4-6" fixed blade knife. Currently it is either a BRKT Bravo1 or (if raining) a BRKT Sandstorm-A. Both are VERY sharp and adequately strong for batoning, etc. I really do not chop with a knife.
They are like my life jacket on my jet boat. Never needed it so far. Hope I never do. But IF I needed it, I would really need it to perform. I think it would be foolish to think I haven't used it yet, therefore I do not need it.
Ron Athay
 
runningboar said:
Exactly, you should use an axe, chisel, prybar or screwdriver depending on the task that you do to break your knife. Chris
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Some people have knives that can be used as almost all of them, they are thick enough to chop or baton, good enough steel to use as a prybar or a chisel etc. Some knives will do the jobs of those tools you described, but of course not as well. My SFNO is a big knife, it can chop/baton well, I feel no reason not to pry with it. I would use the area near the tip as a screwdriver(if I HAD too) and would feel confident in not loosing the tip. I have the edge thinner than that from Busse so it slices well and chops very well as it has some heft.

I have not had to use my SFNO as an axe but I have seen it do it, I have pryed with it so I know if I need it too it will. I have taken it with me on hikes along with just a pocket knife and a pistol, so if SHTF(hypothetically-for whatever reason) I know it could handle digging etc, etc. Its an expensive darn near bulletproof knife that I would trust not to fail me should I need it for whatever I may have to throw at it. No I dont trust my life to it...like many have said I trust my life to my abilities and what I have learned...but I do trust it not to fail me. I think thats more important.
 
runningboar said:
How specifically do you break your knives, and what is this hypothetical situation that you need this toughness for. I have asked these questions over and over and all I get is prying boulders off my leg, right. Chris
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Ok, I'll bite.

About 10 or 12 years ago, I took a friend into the Colorado Mountains to do some target shooting with my bow. As luck would have it, a couple of my arrows with field points got stuck into a stump. I had a Schrade Uncle Henry folder, which was a gift from a dear friend, and I tried my best to cut those arrows out, but ended up putting a little too much sideways pressure on the blade and snapped off about 1/2 inch at the tip. This was a pretty thin tip, so it's not as extreme as it sounds. I sent it back to the factory with a note explaining, offering to pay. They replaced the blade at no charge, which was very nice, but replaced it with a blade ground differently which I didn't care for. Oh well.

Anyway, the ease with which I snapped this knife surprised me. This was in the early to mid 90's, and I then heard of Cold Steel, and ended up getting a Master Hunter and SRK. Both have pried many arrows out of stumps at much greater pressures, and after thinning the edges on both out, they both cut as well, if not better, than the Schrade.

Since then, I've gone through a lot more than those 2 knives. If I need a hard use knife, it's generally for chopping wood (making walking sticks or prying wet wood apart which I've done many times), but I also carry a small fine cutter as well. They're all good, and I wouldn't want to be stuck with "just one knife", either kind.

They all have their uses.
 
I broke about 3/4" of the tip of a Schrade lock back once just by stabbing a cardboard box. I haven't bought but one schrade since. They seem to have problems with the tips breaking off.
 
runningboar said:
I have never broken a knife in my life and the only knives I have seen broken were being thrown, prying the lid off a paint can or other things you shouldn't use a knife for....
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Who says you shouldn't use your knife to pry off that paint can lid? I'd have to walk all the way down stairs to grab a screw driver - then the beer fridge will distract me and uhm... what was I doing again???

Knives are great because they are just so darn versatile. Really - who wants another highly specialized tool. Yeah the Phillips screwdriver is good at what it does - but lets face it, pretty single minded in its application. Knives can do many things and why shouldn't we keep it that way.

I recognize that manufacturers of knives might want to create a big list of all the do's and don'ts of knives (e.g. Buck's lovely LIMITED warranty description), but why do we have to follow those rules? Like Guyon said, some knife makers give wide berth in their warranty.

Maybe some people want treat their knives like princesses, but I sure don't.
 
Codger_64 said:
Digging is best done with a digging stick.
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Codger, I would have preferred prefer a shovel -- or a pick in the case in question - or several of each. But as for digging in sun-baked adobe clay with a crooked pine stick (no other wood available), I respectfully suggest that you -- like all of us -- are limited by your experiences. As for me, and my fellow team members, we wanted to get that fire out NOW. Fire out of control in the Sierra Nevada in August is pretty undesirable. Our sheath knives were what we had. We put the fire out while the $@1^&%!! who started the fire danced around goin' "Oh! Oh! Oh!" (He had already wasted his water by pouring it on the surface -- while the fire burned underground.) My 225Q and the other guy's Ka-Bars survived the experience.

And I hardly think the 225Q is "bullet-proof." In fact, I suspect any knife can be damaged pretty badly by some level of silliness -- or perceived need.

And in the end, everyone picks what makes them happy. 4" x 3/16" of A2 makes me happy at present. (If all I had was a beer bottle, that would be better than teeth.)
 
runningboar said:
I have said many times on this forum, feel free to research it, that wanting something in most cases is plenty of justification for buying it. I love custom expensive knives and loath cheap pieces of shit, so don't try to twist my words into I like only cheap knives.

What I don't like is people trying to convince someone that they need a big rough tough he man knife in the woods. Or any knife that cost less than 100 dollars is not worthy to "stake your life on" or "you might be willing to stake your life on cheap disposable knife but I certainly wouldn't" or "I only carry quality gear and custom knives".

If you want to only carry idiotic Ray Mears or Bear Grylls bushcraft knives that cost 500 dollars plus, that's awesome, I am sure that they will work great for whatever you want to do with them. But don't try to convince me that I NEED them or because my favorite knives cost less than a 100 dollars on EBAY and are made out of 1095 that they aren't up to the task or I must not know what I am talking about. Chris
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Who's trying to do all this convincing? :confused:

I wouldn't care if you chose to head out with Frosts cutlery or Dark Ops knives in your pack. :eek:

I know you wouldn't (you wouldn't, would you? :D), but the hyperbole here is to make a point: Your pack. Your choice.

My mother taught me some manners, and I don't badmouth someone else's tools, no matter what I think of them myself.

I expect the same courtesy. Don't knock my knife if you should think it's underbuilt and/or underpriced OR overbuilt and/or overpriced.

My pack. My choice. :D :thumbup:
 
Oh, and I'll pry a boulder off my leg if I durn well good and please. ;)
 
runningboar said:
How specifically do you break your knives, and what is this hypothetical situation that you need this toughness for. I have asked these questions over and over and all I get is prying boulders off my leg, right. Chris
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I do try to convince as I am an outdoor educator and have a personal resposibility to teach the public what works and what doesn't. Some are just ignorant or learning impaired however. By educating it also keeps me from a 3 am call to drag some sorry ass out of a bad situation. Many are not due to gear failures but some are, I try to proactivley mitigate these situations by passing on no BS experiences and knowledge, some listen some dont.

While trying to pry off a boulder is one thing and yes I would try it as Arron would have too if he'd had a tool to do it but thats besides the point.

The breaks:

2 blades snapped litterally in half one by limbing a dead frozen tree for firewood in winter. The other shattered into three pieces trying to split a frozen log covered in ice for a desperately needed fire.

Another blade broke an inch off the tip making it near useless for the job of chipping through 8 inches of ice to access water on a frozen lake all the whille trying to heat water for hot jello and keeping a hypothermic subject form exiting stage left.

A third blade bent to 90 degrees the first time I tried to pry some dead standing wood with it (to get the dry center) for a fire in the summer after 2 weeks of rain.

All blades were from various so called quality makers and steels, some over a $100. One was D2 and the others 1095.

So yes there are instances where you can snap a blade easily.

I was not in a survival situation in any of these events but rather Deep bush SAR training where weight and time and minimal gear is an issue as you have to hump it all and produce results fast and effecient.

This kind of torture was in training, I have seen worse conditions and abuse on missions, please imagine the abuse a panicky lost person would put a blade through.

Fact is there is no substitute for quality and only you can put that price on what your life is worth for all essential kit onr bring a good blade.

Its not knife snobbery, its just the best quality tools you can afford. This is not a hard concept to understand or is it.:confused:

I got enough to worry about, in that crap out there can kill me let alone worry about substandard gear.

If I am going to punch out of this torrid realm, it ain't going to be because of gear failure.

Its like the analogy; you can purchase a Chinese rifle knockoff and ammo and it will shoot pretty good at the range and cost a fraction of the real deal but will it perform filthy when TSHTF and do you trust it to do just that? If you do then any POS shit blade should work out just fine for you and deepen the gene pool for the rest of us to swim in.
Insert above, tires for the car or black market medications from Mexico or the shockingly cheapest bid for electrical work on your house etc etc.... This is common sense at its finest.

Murphy is enough of a bastard without serving it up for him.

Apparently others mileage varies greatly.To each his own.

Skam

Tired :eek:
 
Guyon said:
Who's trying to do all this convincing? :confused:


My mother taught me some manners, and I don't badmouth someone else's tools, no matter what I think of them myself.

I expect the same courtesy. Don't knock my knife if you should think it's underbuilt and/or underpriced OR overbuilt and/or overpriced.

My pack. My choice. :D :thumbup:
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I'll knock it all day long if I get a call at 3am to come get you cuz you messed with murphy and lost.

I have no manners when ppl put me stupidly at risk to comming home safely to my family. Accidents are accidents but forseable gear failure putting your life at risk is avoidable with some forthought and the willingness to learn from others.;)

Skam
 
OK, OK I give, you guys win, I knew you would when I started this thread. All you have to do is walk into any store that sells knives and look at what is in the rack to know who would win. 30 years ago there was no such thing as benchmades, spydercos, busses, really no such thing as a "tactical" knife. What there was was schrade, case, queen, and on the higher side randalls these knives were designed to be outdoors knives or as all of us said "hunting" knives. Then something happened in the early 80s and the design of knives started changing and things like tantos and butterfly knives and huge knives with saw teeth on the back became popular, this trend has refined but pretty much stayed on track, hell I can't even go into Wal Mart and buy a pocket knife, a stockman, muskrat, or copperhead. Part of the problem with my knives disappearing is what people do with them, there are fewer and fewer hunters and fisherman every year, people buy knives now not to whittle or clean a trout but so that if they wreck their car and are stuck inside they can hack their way out, or for personal defense, and the knives of today reflect that.

I offended several people and never meant to do that, Skammer you are right I can't learn because I don't want too. It makes me sad to see what was the most important thing to me in the world when I was a kid disappear. Old men that chew tobbacco and carry a pickbone muskrat in their pocket and whittle kids wooden knives and guns are disappearing forever.

Sniper, you are right those schrades ain't worth a shit and the tip breaks if you try to peel an apple with one, if you have any send them to me and I will dispose of them for you. Chris
 
the only knives that have broke for me as of late, are the ones made in China.
 
runningboar said:
OK, OK I give, you guys win, I knew you would when I started this thread. All you have to do is walk into any store that sells knives and look at what is in the rack to know who would win. 30 years ago there was no such thing as benchmades, spydercos, busses, really no such thing as a "tactical" knife. What there was was schrade, case, queen, and on the higher side randalls these knives were designed to be outdoors knives or as all of us said "hunting" knives. Then something happened in the early 80s and the design of knives started changing and things like tantos and butterfly knives and huge knives with saw teeth on the back became popular, this trend has refined but pretty much stayed on track, hell I can't even go into Wal Mart and buy a pocket knife, a stockman, muskrat, or copperhead. Part of the problem with my knives disappearing is what people do with them, there are fewer and fewer hunters and fisherman every year, people buy knives now not to whittle or clean a trout but so that if they wreck their car and are stuck inside they can hack their way out, or for personal defense, and the knives of today reflect that.

I offended several people and never meant to do that, Skammer you are right I can't learn because I don't want too. It makes me sad to see what was the most important thing to me in the world when I was a kid disappear. Old men that chew tobbacco and carry a pickbone muskrat in their pocket and whittle kids wooden knives and guns are disappearing forever.

Sniper, you are right those schrades ain't worth a shit and the tip breaks if you try to peel an apple with one, if you have any send them to me and I will dispose of them for you. Chris
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Chris, I think that traditional knives are alive and well. Now, some places like Schrade and Camillus have failed because of bad business models, and I hated to see both companies go. But look at the success of Canal Street Cutlery, made up of mostly old Schrade employees. Look at the success of Bark River. Mike Stewart doesn't make many "tactical" knives. Buck knives and Case knives are still alive and kicking, as is Queen. Ron Ryder has a successful business that sells only traditional knives (http://www.cuttersandcollectors.com/), and there is a thriving Traditional forum here on the boards. I find it a little strange that, while you lament the passing of traditional cutlery, I can't find a single post you've made in the Traditional forum when I do an Advanced Search. :confused:

Also, if you visit where I grew up, you'll see plenty of slipjoints in men's pockets, and a tactical folder will get you a funny look. I know. I carry a Spyderco Caly III. :p

As for the demise of hunters and fishermen (I am both), that goes with increased population and the accompanying decrease in huntable/fishable land. I see no way to change that. I can do my little part and encourage young people to hunt and fish, but I can't promise them a 100 acres to hunt or publicly accessible rivers to fish when they get older.

I like my Busses and my Spydercos, but I also have a lot of "traditional" knives--from Case to Queen to old Schrades--slipjoints, lockbacks, and fixed blades. I post over in Traditional a good bit. Where have you been? :D That forum has group ordered, the past two years, a Bladeforums slippie from Canal Street (similar to the NWA group order over here). Why don't you stop in sometime and say howdy? :thumbup:

Here's a Honk Falls slipjoint. Made in New York in the 1920s. Passed from my grandfather to my father to me. God willing, my son will have it one day. My son also has about four or five NIB Schrade stockman knives (US made) set back for him. Maybe seeing this one and knowing there are plenty of traditional knife nuts out there will make you feel a little better.

HF1.jpg


HF3.jpg
 
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