Breaking locks on these many famous knives-GREAT INFO..!!

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frank aka rage

Joined
Jan 16, 2000
Messages
37
Hello again people, sorry i havent posted in a while, but now i have some free time. Ok, yesterday, i was quite bored out of my mind, and i was looking over my knives, and it just sprung into my mind, the thought of lock designs, and which is truly the best, or will fare the best if given a certain test. All the knives below recieved the same test, this was clamping the blade in a vise, between nothing but the steel teeth on my vise, and then putting alot of weight on the handle. Let me first start off saying that i am 5'8in. tall, and weigh 216lbs. And this test was strictly for my own personal info, i know an exact weight wasnt observed, but in all honesty i must say i tried to give each knife the same amount of weight-or some knives that busted before alot of weight. I was standing, and put both hands in a one-over-the-other-format. And aplied pressure to the knives handle until, well, you'll see the results below.

KNIVES THAT WHERE TESTED.(Spyderco endura-new model with metal clip, and zytel handle, CRKT M16-dagger blade, w/zytel handle, BM710sbt axis lock, REKAT Carnivour-newer model w/release slide button on the handle, COLD STEEL tanto tip large voyager-4in blade, and a BM750 pinnacle/mono-lock-newer model, with thinner and refined lock bar.

ENDURA-this knife was horrible, it was the least strongest lock of all, i gave 2 weight thrusts with my own weight-it broke on the second thrust-the lock bar/cam cracked, and the pin that holds the lock spring bent severally.

CRKT M16-dagger blade/zytel handle-i honestly really liked this knife, and thought it would be much stronger-boy was i wrong, given the same test as the endura, this knife took more pressure, and about 3 weight thrusts, but i said, oh my god-this lock crumbled horribly, the whole lock bar bent out of shape, and bent the zytel scale so much, and the lock bar literally bent out of the handle.

BM Axis lock MODEL 710sbt-this lock was
totally killer, this lock is so damn strong, i gave it 5 hard weight thrusts-TAKE NOTICE THAT MY VISE IS ON A SMALL-BOLTED TO THE CONCRETE SOLID WOOD BENCH, AND THE VISE IS UP TO MY WAIST. Therefore i can jump slightly and bare all my weight on the knife. I really tried to make this fail, but it just would not budge-i next got a rubber malet/sledge hammer and struck the handle with alot of force-it did not budge.

REKAT Carnivour-this was an incredible knife, great lock, and the testing was very similair to the Axis lock's testing, with all my might, i could not get it to budge-even with the malet. I must say though, the rolling lock on the rekat did bend alot more then the axis lock did-while giving pressure with my weight-but it never failed, nor the axis lock.

COLD STEEL VOYAGER-this knife was stronger then the CRKT, and the Endura, but it took about twice the pressure as the CRKT did, but it failed, and very similair to the Endura's failure-but on the Voyager, the blades lock surface/cam cracked-the endura's spring/lock bar notch got sheared.

BM Pinnacle model 750-this knife is a winner, it took as much pressure as both the Rekat, and Axis, but it did bend slot more-the lock bar bent outwards, but never failed, and it withstood the rubber malet-this knife is very solid.

Upon closer inspection, the axis locks pivot pin was slightly bent, and the axis bar was dented about 1/16in, and the axis lock had some back and forth play to it, but was still able to function-this will be my tool box knife.
The REKAT's lock was also dented, but the dent was deeper, and the REKAT had alot more play-the pivot pin on this knife was bent considerably, and the knife doesn't pass the spine whack test-OH, YOU THOUGHT I FORGOT ABOUT THIS TEST, NO WAY. The rekats passes some whacks, then fails others, the axis lock passes all whack tests.

Now, the Pinnacle did probably the best job, it held strong, it passes the spine whack test every time, and guess what, it has zero back and forth play, although the pivot pin was bent slightly, this knife was the best in terms of "survive ability" but my choice for the best lock would be the Pinnacle, or the Axis.

I know i am a real jerk for doing such test to knives that are so great, but it was done for my own personal rants, and i though alot of yall would want this info. Know i have to get another Axis lock-there goes my paycheck, lol...

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"for future shall not bring freedom..but not the sight that man sees, harvest your freedom, and make a future..for no one is here to protect your fate, and tame your dreams-freedom, it's in the air..."
 
Ouch.
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Wow, I'm still shaking my head in disbelief... You did something that others have probably thought of, line 'em up and see what happens, but to actually go through with it is a whole different story.

That was an expensive test. Thanks for sacrificing.

 
Well, i don't mean to sound like a real rich- jerk, who can buy knives like it was nothing, i work hard for my money, and was brought up hard, and money was always tight, but in all honesty, over the 10+ years i've been collecting knives, i never seen anything wrong with testing-or even breaking a knife-in order to see what it's true colors are. I carry several knives for self defense, the area i work in is not the greatest. So i really want to know which knives will be dependable. The major, and oh i mean major down point to this is of coarse how expensive these knives are, ah, another Axis lock will set me back, darn, hehe.
 
Absolutely wonderful, useful information. I admire your willingness to put your knives to an extremely challenging test.

I, however, am not willing to send you my Sebenza to test.
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Seriously, good experiment. I am a little confused by one small point. Did you do the A T Barr spine whack test before proceeding to the vise on all the knives, or just the few you mentioned?

Thanks for the info, Walt
 
To me, what I get is that if BM did a 5.45" or longer Axis lock piece, that'd be my plaything RIGHT now.

As is, the REKAT lock is damned good and comes in a 5.45" blade.

So it wins, hands down
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.

Heluva test
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Jim
 
Hello again,

This is to Walt, yes, they all passed the spine whack test, i test all my knives, and the only knives that where still useful after the testing was the Axis lock-the Pinnacle, and the REKAT-although the carnivour did fail about 50% of the time while the spine whack test was done. Let me say that i do a nasty spine whack test, i always do it on my Formica kitchen table. Another thing, all these knives i've tested are really good, think about it, they never failed, they broke, and thats after i bared down on them, when you plunge a clogged toilet bowl, and you really press the plunger with your both hands, usually using your palm, and your other hand over the hand thats in contact with the wooden stick for the plunger. Well, thats pretty much the same technique i've done, but only the knives took a hell of a push. In my book, they are all user friendly, but still the Pinnacle and Axis fared the best, the REKAT is totally strong, but then again the axis and mono lock are still usable, the REKAT i will never carry.

 
Again, did the REKAT start failing the whack test before or after the vise clamping?

If before, I can understand your hesitation to carry any rolling lock, but if it was after, then I just can't - because that's a lot of abuse that a lock will typically never see.

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
 
Hooo, ya! Love it. Thanks Frank! Now go back on the medication. If we ever meet up at a show or something, I'll buy you a REKAT or Benchmade in appreciation!

 
Question:

Which way was the blade pointed when you were putting your weight on the handle? up or down? Were you testing to see if the knife would close on your hand (my assumption is yes) or something else?

As I'm typing this, I'm thinking I just answered my own question.

My two cents on the whole lock strength thing...
I find it highly unlikely that anyone, even the strongest person in the world, would be able to hang on to a knife undergoing sufficient strain to make the lock fail. I forget exact figures, but I seem to remember something that the pressures it would take to make a Rolling Lock fail would be something like 500 pounds at one inch from the pivot point (this is a figure just for estimate-- I honestly don't remember the exact number, but I remember it being pretty high). Now I work out a lot, and I've got really strong hands, but I'm pretty sure that if somehow that much pressure was put on a knife I was holding, my wrist would break, or my hand would simply fly off in protest.

My advice is don't do the whole Kergan (from highlander) stab them with your blade then lift them off the ground and throw them thing. I'd imagine that just about any non linerlock would be more than sufficient for a simply ducky knife fight.

I'm all in favor of the Axis Lock and the Rolling Lock (still waiting to get my first one of those) because of other reasons beyond lock strength, namely the ease of opening and closing the knife one-handed.

Anyway. I've said my piece.

chizpuf

 
Well, Frank, thanks a bunch for sacrificing your knives in order to inform us. I'm on a tight knife budget, but now I know what I'm going to save up for! I want an Axis Lock now.
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Or maybe a Pinnacle. I don't really know yet.
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-Chang the Asian Janitorial Apparatus
 
All knives passed the spine whack test before the breakage test, the endura, voyager, and m16 were completly broken after the test, and could not be closed, or otherwise used. The axis, rekat, and pinnacle are all awesome knives, my test proved that the axis and pinnacle were still usable-the pinnacle being in the best shape after the abusive test, but the rekat was a little hard to open, and it fails the spine whack test more then 50% of the time now. All knives were clamped in the vise edge down, i wanted to see how these knives would hold up to an extreme amount of weight before failing. A couple things to consider, i did apply weight to all knives slowly, it wasn't a sudden impact, my guess is that if i had a iron malet/sledge, and impacted the Endura, Voyager, and the M16-they would all fail the first shot. I did not strike the endura, voyager, and m16 w/the rubber malet, for they broke on very little pressure. The only reason i whacked the axis, rekat, and pinnacle with the rubber malet is because they all passed my weight test, when i mean weight test, i mean really thrusting your weight on the knives handle, literally while having both my hands on each knife, i would jump and then thrust, then repeat this many times, nor the rekat, axis, or pinnacle failed. Three great knives, by far the pinnacle in my favorite design, although i havent found one knife faster then my Axis locks. Well, let me stop typing, the blisters are killing me, glad i can give some info.

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"for future shall not bring freedom..but not the sight that man sees, harvest your freedom, and make a future..for no one is here to protect your fate, and tame your dreams-freedom, it's in the air..."
 
I oughta call DYFS on you...no way to treat your children.

Hey next time you want to reduce your inventory, send some my way, I'll take good care of them.
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I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that in the same test, a SS Endura would fare much better for a lockback. Zytel, as strong as it is, is still 'plastic' and can only take so much abuse. It's the tradeoff of it's light weight & slim profile. Even steel liners with G-10 scales would probably be a lot stronger.
 
Feel free to send me everything you trashed, they will be great for making templates and such for customizing.

Jake
 
Great work Frank! I was very disappointed in the M-16 i had. it failed the spline test not long after I purchased it! And i really thought it was a neat knife. I know you prefer the Axis lock which makes sense ,but I like my 2 Rekats; the Carnivour and Sifu. I trust both of them!
 
This is one of the things that makes BF so much fun. If a maker had done these tests, there would be a few doubting the truth of the results. This is a consumer doing this to knives he bought like any normal joe. Personally, I think he is crazy for destroying his knives like that and the tests was excessive, but he has that freedom. So I applaud him in his efforts and I really appreciate him sharing them with us.

Now, I wonder how many manufacturers will want to see the broken and even not broken locks?

Looks like we have a new level of lock testing, "The AKA-Rage Test."
 
Hey - GR8 stuff !!

Now - a photo section of the before-during-after of this test would make it "test of the month" for sure
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[This message has been edited by Blilious (edited 03-29-2000).]
 
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