Broke my BK2

granitestateofmind said:
It's not really a theory. The solid tang 9's break more often than the skeletonized 9's because there is a spot from the roll stamping that allows for stress risers. And .004% is not "empirical" by any stretch. The BK2 is a beast in any configuration, and I would say that Fritz was just unlucky, but he's not: he purchased a Becker. Which means that instead of breaking his knife and being SOL, he just has to wait a bit for the replacement. What other company/designer offers that sort of guarantee at the high value price point of the BK2? That's why I'll continue to buy (and use the hell out of) BK&T. Thank you, Ethan.
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Very well said.
 
This is only the second BK2 I have ever seen broken. Rumor has it, every time a BK2 is destroyed a unicorn must be sacrificed and we all know how rare those are.

Good on ya Mr. Becker for standing behind your product. I think I'd cry if my BK2 ever broke. I love that freaking knife, like in an unhealthy way.
 
The solid quality of these knives, plus great value/price plus seeing Mr. Becker jump in here...no wonder I'll be adding a 9 to my collection soon. At first I thought a couple would do, but now I want 'em all.
 
I hate to go against the grain here but it seems to me that the major cause of the broken knife is that it was being used for something that is not NORMALLY knife work.

Batoning with a knife as opposed to an ax or hatchet is a valuable bush craft but not something that you would do regularly when you have access to the proper tools. There are many other tools that are better suited to processing wood for a fire than any knife.

That said, the 2 is clearly a very stout blade and would probably do the job in a contingency situation where the proper tools were not to hand but our topic starter stated that this is his normal tool for 5" and under wood processing.

Even if we find out that there was a problem with the heat treat or some such manufacturing defect, I don't think that would endorse continuing to use the wrong tool for the job at hand.

TG
 
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Yeah, I'm thinking there may have been an issue with that particular knife. Still, it probably wouldn't hurt to remove slightly less material on the handle cutouts for the these knives. I know weight is always an issue but for knives with a reputation for durability, it would be worth adding a small bit of weight to increase durability. Just my opinion.

Or maybe come out with a line of knives called the Becker HU (Hard Use) line. Make completely bomb-proof knives instead of usually bomb-proof knives. Just to throw this out there, I love the Becker knives. I think they are the coolest and toughest knives I've owned and used to date. I just need to get more of them, dammit. That way I can test them ALL.

Survivormind
 
Fair advice TG. But isn't that advice only valid if the knife in question wasn't designed from the beginning with such intentions? The KA-BAR USMC, Buck 119 or Cold Steel Shanghai Shadow, I can see them not being designed with batoning in mind. But the Becker series is an entirely different animal in design, and was built from the ground up for extremely hard use that would break other lesser knives.

They're basically the Ruger Blackhawk series of the knife world, and they were the SAAs that put Colt and Smith & Wesson revolvers to shame at the time.
 
I hear you Charlie but absent word from the man himself that he designed the knife to split wood, I still contend that batoning is a contingency operation for any knife.

I was taught that an knife is a cutting tool, not a pry bar (I've proved that to myself by breaking tips off), screw driver (more broken tips) or hammer. Granted I've done ALL those things with various knives and some of them suffered for it. I did it knowing that the knife could and possibly would (and did) fail.

I'd put batoning in the category of expending the life of the knife. I won't be doing it except for when it's really needed (absent training situations and even then only done lightly to learn technique).

TG
 
TG,

I firmly believe in the usefulness of large knives when it comes to splitting wood, especially the 1/4" thick ones that seem to be (many are touted as being) designed for it. There are a great many people in this world that will simply chop a shin or foot off with a tomahawk or other tool designed to be more effective in cross cutting wood. I actually prefer a tomahawk but also use one every week of my life. There is a certain amount of thinking that one must use when using one and if you aren't careful and haven't trained yourself to think in this way, you are going to end up seriously hurt if not short a limb or dead.

Case in point; I had a friend of mine using my tomahawk to limb many trees. I keep the damn thing nearly razor sharp and had I not been there (despite all of his very high intelligence, not being sarcastic on this), he probably would have killed himself.

Crosscutting with a tomahawk or other ax-like tool is much easier than batoning with a large knife. True. Splitting wood with a tomahawk or other small ax-like tool is decently easy. True. Batoning with a large knife with a 1/4" thick blade is far more easy for a reasonably unskilled person than using a tomahawk or hatchet. True.

There is definitely a market for thick knives that are intended to be used batoning. Trust me, my father taught me that knives are to be used with a certain amount of care and while splitting log after log with a BK2, my conscience was still screaming at me so I can understand where you are coming from. The logic persists though. It's simply safer for most people and realistically speaking, I can split wood easier with my wife's BK2 than I can with my hawk. She always laughs when I go get it.

Survivormind
 
tg4360 said:
I hear you Charlie but absent word from the man himself that he designed the knife to split wood, I still contend that batoning is a contingency operation for any knife.
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So... what exactly is a knife like the Ontario RTAK II designed to do then? It's pretty big for skinning an animal, and awfully unwieldy for detail work when a smaller knife like the Mora would do better.

I was taught that an knife is a cutting tool, not a pry bar (I've proved that to myself by breaking tips off), screw driver (more broken tips) or hammer. Granted I've done ALL those things with various knives and some of them suffered for it. I did it knowing that the knife could and possibly would (and did) fail.
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I read this, and this video immediately came to mind.

[video=youtube;QSuZxLT8_iY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSuZxLT8_iY[/video]

It took some utter brutality, far beyond what some of us would ever consider doing, to break that one. Batoning wood is one thing, but batoning your way through a car?
 
Charlie_K said:
So... what exactly is a knife like the Ontario RTAK II designed to do then? It's pretty big for skinning an animal, and awfully unwieldy for detail work when a smaller knife like the Mora would do better.



I read this, and this video immediately came to mind.

[video=youtube;QSuZxLT8_iY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSuZxLT8_iY[/video]

It took some utter brutality, far beyond what some of us would ever consider doing, to break that one. Batoning wood is one thing, but batoning your way through a car?
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Just cause you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD. I can break a board with head, however my head tells me that I SHOULDN'T cause there will be a bloody broken mess if I do.
 
Good point could and should are two different animals all together. I do something's i shouldn't such as baton with my beckers and at such time that they break which I fully expect as they are not the proper tool for the job I will not me upset or displeased as they have surpassed my expectations. Typically I use a splitting maul or my hydraulic log splitter however for some small stuff around the house or for small kindling in the woods I will use a knife
 
Chameleonbear said:
Just cause you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD. I can break a board with head, however my head tells me that I SHOULDN'T cause there will be a bloody broken mess if I do.
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So Ethan Becker was wrong in his video, detailing the durability of his creation and how it can cut through a car?
 
Charlie_K said:
So Ethan Becker was wrong in his video, detailing the durability of his creation and how it can cut through a car?
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no not wrong there is a vid where he says test the limits of you're gear then never push it anywhere near that limit in the field!!! good advice I think!! its on you tube in a four part interview he did with Adam from E2E
 
All of this information is good and all. But it still doesn't answer a simple question.

Knives like the Ontario RTAK II, the ESEE Junglas, the BK2 and BK9, and other similar models are all considerable in both size and weight. If they weren't built durable with the intent of being used for batoning through wood, then what's the logical justification for their size and weight?
 
To baton or not to baton is really not the question, me thinks....... Being rational in what you baton Is the answer..... I baton with my SAK Rucksack when dealing with real small stuff and my Eleven is not around my neck but I am damn delicat when I do....... I do NOT baton my Sixteen through a 4in bolt of knotty beech and, frankly, With any piece of beech I prefer hydraulics....... Something to think about is that in the climbing community if you take a hard fall or two or three you retire the rope...... I am suggesting, I guess, that the whole batonning thing is relatively new and we are all still trying to figure it out...... I never batonned so much as a twig when I was a kid (God WILL strike you DEAD if you do THAT to that knife)and was so delighted when I found out about this incredibly safer way to make more accurate splits that I went severely overboard with it...... It is so easy to read a bolt and accurately exploit it's weaknesses...No chasing the pieces all over camp, etc......Early on I did some really STUPID stuff that still requires a couple of brews to weasel the story out of me, I have been lucky enough to have never broken a blade unless I was deliberately trying to do so ( leave us not talk about my teen years, thank you very much!).......My good friend Phil Gibbs, a distinguished elder statesman of the knife tribe, always describes himself as a student of cutlery and I think his point is, that no matter how long we study the blade we will always be just trying to "figure it all out"........ I have no real idea at what point residual stresses, built up over time, overcome a single pice of steel's defenses and cause it to surrender and fail....Did, in this instance , by some fluke get the same kind of harmonics that cause blade failure when a pointy piece of steel is thrown....Who knows???......I want to know,dammit, I WANT to know.......(btw, any student engineers looking for a masters thesis idea??)......

I can only say about THIS particular blade is that It should not have failed, in theory, but, it did, and forty years of mangling metal has taught me that very piece of steel is in some way unique.........

When we cut the Omni up it was a lot of fun and when Clich did those terrible things to that poor innocent lawn mower it was hilarious but, I strongly suggest, save the Omni bashing, lawnmower molesting and knotty beech for the back yard and take a low mileage blade into the wilderness........

All best....

Ethan
 
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I just don't understand why manufactures try to cut corners. Make a solid full tang blade and up the price by a few dollars. It's seems to me at least that manufacturers are trying to save a little steel and it isn't worth the rep of a failed design. I have a old boy scout knife that has a full tang that I prefer to carry out in the woods than my Ka-bars and Ontario's knifes. Thanks warrior for posting the pic.
 
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