BUCK 110 B&C is misleading

skyhorse said:
I wouldn't feel too bad Matt,having an extra 110 around is a good thing.I can see why you thought it may have been something different by the Avid designation,we're just not used to the fairly new grading system for a classic model like the 110.
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I guess we live and learn, and your right, having another Buck around is always a plus.

Dave, What do I owe you for being the bouncer at the door...;)
 
That one's on the house Matt. I just get a bit weary of some folks incessant Buck bashing.
 
Plumberdv said:
I just get a bit weary of some folks incessant Buck bashing.
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+1 :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

I have a decent filing system and note keeping with the Bucks I own and I figure 99.4% of those have no issues...and I own a lot of Buck knives. The few that slipped through and were sold to me had minor issues that were easy fixes.

I do appreciate this thread Matt because it never even entered my mind about Buck's Select, Avid or Pro rating system when it came to a 110. Like I said before...I always bought a 110 taking handle, bolster and steel material in mind and the rating system just wasn't part of that equation.
 
I always thought the different levels were the three different shifts at the Buck factory. As I work on daylight, first shift, in my factory job my products are of course classified in the "Pro" level. Off shifts would be less experienced and justly labeled "Select" and "Avid" for second and third shift accordingly.:D
 
I hope Buck is thinking about abandoning their strange grading system.

:barf:
 
Plumberdv said:
That one's on the house Matt. I just get a bit weary of some folks incessant Buck bashing.
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I hear ya'.

I'm especially weary of threads bashing Buck about misleading marketing and packaging. <cough, cough, ahem> :D
 
Anyone have suggestions for a different grading system?

There seems to be feelings from some that the current one is no good, but I've seen no suggestions made about how it should be corrected. What do you think would be an improvement?
 
I thought the grading system worked fine for knives like the Vantage, the main one I would buy using that grading system for comparison.

Matt has brought to light the fact that there are 110 Avids and I'm guessing the Paperstone 110 might be their Select Series, so I guess maybe any 110 with upgraded steel might be in the Pro Series?? Again, I just never thought of the 110 fitting into that grading system.
 
Stumps said:
I thought the grading system worked fine for knives like the Vantage, the main one I would buy using that grading system for comparison.

Matt has brought to light the fact that there are 110 Avids and I'm guessing the Paperstone 110 might be their Select Series, so I guess maybe any 110 with upgraded steel might be in the Pro Series?? Again, I just never thought of the 110 fitting into that grading system.
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You're correct about that. The 110 isn't the only one that doesn't have a "Pro" level, none of the 100 series (except for the B&C models) have anything but an "Avid" label, not even the ones with the "upgraded" handle material and brass guard and pommel.
 
A grading system is negative in that it gives the impression that some knives may be of cheap construction.

A Buck knife should be nothing but the best--ONE grade.

We know that special steels, etc. mean higher prices and may have certain advantages......we don't need grades.

(!)
 
I like the grading system just fine.

I think any confusion that results stems from (to my eyes) is somewhat sloppy product line and product model naming conventions.

There are product model numbers such as 110, 112, 501, 119.

There are product model names such as Vantage, Ranger, Woodsman.

There are product families/series such as Bantam, Chairman, Bucklite Max, Ecolite.

And now there are levels: Select, Avid, Pro.

Note that family/series names and product names get blurred. Is Vantage the name of a single product or a family of products? I dunno.

Things get doubly complicated when the names of some product (or product families) incorporate the level in their "product name" such as Vantage Pro or ErgoHunter Select.

My sense is that modern manufacturing capabilities give Buck the ability to produce many, many, many more variants of a single basic design than ever before. IMO, this is leading to an explosion of often closely related knives, many sharing the same blade design. And as a result, they are dealing with a naming problem that simply outstrips the old tradition of model numbers stamped on blades.

It's a hard problem. I would suggest that Matt's confusion was based on his experience with knives like the Vantage Avid (a newer approach to naming, often but not always associated with upgraded steel) and then having those expectations not met when he saw a Buck 110.
 
BG42EDGE said:
A grading system is negative in that it gives the impression that some knives may be of cheap construction.

A Buck knife should be nothing but the best--ONE grade.

We know that special steels, etc. mean higher prices and may have certain advantages......we don't need grades.

(!)
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In fact some are of cheaper construction. I don't believe that anyone would argue that the Bucklite 426 for instance is the equal, quality wise, of the 110. Same size, same blade but with a plastic handle and much cheaper to produce and to sell.
 
Without getting all "Pirsig" on this, what is quality?

If quality means durable, then I agree with BG42 in the sense that all Buck knives should be equally durable in terms of their construction.

If quality means desirable or prettier materials, then I agree with Plumbrdv that there are (and should be) Bucks at different levels of bling.
 
I didn't say "cheaper"--I said CHEAP......in the sense of CHEAP--meaning CHEESY or JUNKY or POOR.

In other words, Buck's goofy grading system will lead some to believe that their lowest rated knives might be junk.

This could be a marketing ploy to sell more of the higher-priced knives that have a better profit margin, but......to me it detracts from the overall reputation of Buck in that they seem to be admitting that they sell some low-quality knives.

That's all I meant.

Buck has never shown any reluctance to annoy their customers with quirky marketing ideas, so I doubt that they'll care a bit about what ANYBODY says on this forum--but we try, anyhow.

:D

P.S. I think this crap probably all got started with some guilt about the knives made in China and a need for a way to separate them out from the rest of the line.

Again.......quirky and unnecessary.
 
I think there is truth being spoken here. I think there is confusion in the names of products. If in one category (vantage Line), Avid means you have an upgraded steel and handle material, that same classification (Avid) should follow suit to all Buck products. I know that the definitions say what they are supposed to mean, but who really reads those any way. You read what the product you are interested in has to offer. I pick up an Vantage "Avid" and it had all the bells and whistles , Avid sticks in my head as an up graded product. It's confusing for most people. Most people don't sit around and read Blade Forums for clarification either.
 
I usually buy the knife for what it is, don't really care what they put on the package.
The grading system, good or bad, is meaningless to me personally.
 
Avid means "Having an ardent desire or unbounded craving; greedy."

How the hell does that apply to a knife anyway???? Who comes up with this crap? Do they speak English?

Maybe they could go........ kingdom, phylum/division, class, order, family, genus, species?

Maybe steal some 60s car names: Barracuda, GTO, Cutlass, Camaro, Charger, Mustang, Road Runner......

:D
 
On a good note, I took the 110 out of the package and it was rock solid. It locked up tight and I was pleased. The wood was nice and grainy with browns and blacks, and the brass gleamed.

I still absolutely hate, hate, hate the nylon sheath that came with it, I would spend the extra $10 on the knife if it came with the leather sheath. That one will go in the garbage...
 
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