Buck 420HC w/ BOS heat treat. How does it compare?

[Velitrius]

Buck's 420HC is a tough, highly stain-resistant steel that will take a very fine edge with little effort. It's good enough for millions of people (knife nerds excepted ).

Gotta agree with Ed on this one. Tough, easy to sharpen to a very good edge, and incredibly affordable.

Got a little Bucklite Max that serves admirably. Field dresses game just fine.

Are there better choices out there? Sure there are, and knife nerds can point them all out if you wish.

 

[TheEdge01]

Ok, Bos 420hc is still 420hc which is a low end steel in terms of edge retention. The “special “ Bos heat treat boosts it’s performance a notch or two above other 420hc blades. Keep in mind that Bos heat treated S30V blades are available also. Personally, I would put Bos heat treated 420hc in the same category as 8cr13mov or maybe a notch above.
Does it hold a light to S30V or CPM154, no, not in the same ballpark. Like is said, it is still a lower grade steel, it just performs a little better.

 

[tyyreaun]

Was expecting a link to the Cedric & Ada steel test by now...

Ask and ye shall receive:

Yes, the Paul Bos heat treat is magical stuff that gets ~50% more cuts compared to regular 420HC. Still, though, 50% more cuts on a bad steel gives you a marginally less bad steel.

Note also that Buck makes some 420HC knives in China that don't get the Bos treatment, and they suffer as a result.

https://www.everydaycommentary.com/...17/7/7/cedric-and-adas-steel-test-and-results this one?
I can't really believe that 440C clocks in below 420HC in this test though, as well as M4 below LC200N.

There are tons of variables involved other than the steel. A poorly heat treated M4 will definitely underperform an optimally treated lesser steel. Note that link is over a year old - Pete's refined his testing approach since then. In particular, M4 performs much better when given a "toothy" (low grit) finish.

One of his viewers organized all his test results in a Google Sheet, and keeps it updated. That's the best place to get the latest data.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...yUHhUmDLAP1hJ1dN_0q5G4tug/edit#gid=1607644856

A toothy M4 at 15 DPS is getting 700 cuts, one of the best results thus far on a non-specialty steel (e.g., Maxamet or REX 121).

 

[TheEdge01]

If you used 420hc and a whole host of other "better" steels until they were all blunt, and then put them under a microscope to check edge damage how would it stack up then?

The reason why I ask is because I watched a Cliff Stamp video where he compares 12c27 with two high carbide steels and they both chipped and rolled, the 12c27 did not.

I believe Condor still makes some machetes in 420hc, are there any companies that make machetes in S30v?

Usually tough steels like 1085 or 1095 are used in blades designed for chopping because the blades tend to roll rather than chip. I don’t know of any company that uses S30V in machetes. If someone else does please chime in.

 

[TheEdge01]

I prefer sharpening a little more often to paying twice as much for what is ultimately just a hand tool.

It is a hand tool, but some folks take pleasure in premium grade items. Kind of like buying Dewalt vs Skil, both do the job but the level of quality speaks for itself. This is why I prefer Benchmade over a gas station knife that costs a couple dollars. The gas station knife will probably get the job done, but I just appreciate quality items and have been blessed to own a few.

 

[Yorkshire Boy]

Usually tough steels like 1085 or 1095 are used in blades designed for chopping because the blades tend to roll rather than chip. I don’t know of any company that uses S30V in machetes. If someone else does please chime in.

So the whole thing about other more expensive steels blowing 420hc out of the water really depends on what you are doing with it.

 

[TheEdge01]

So the whole thing about other more expensive steels blowing 420hc out of the water really depends on what you are doing with it.

It does to a point, I own a couple Buck knives with 420hc and really like them. 420hc lacks in edge retention but is really tough, easy to sharpen, and has high corrosion resistance. Higher grade steels come at a cost, but if someone just needs a decent blade for edc to use from time to time, 420hc is just fine.

 

[Revolverrodger]

S30v is to 420hc what an iphone 10 is to a flip up phone.
Before the iphone we did everything we needed with the flip up phone but clever marketing made us switch over to the smartphones...

Supersteels are very cool but not really necessary

 

[Fanglekai]

So the whole thing about other more expensive steels blowing 420hc out of the water really depends on what you are doing with it.

Of course. If you cut rope then rope cutting tests are relevant. If you cut materials with different properties then those tests may not be relevant anymore. A knife for slicing sashimi has different desirable attributes than a knife for cutting cardboard. Obviously a test involving slicing sashimi isn't going to tell us much or anything about cutting cardboard or rope and vice versa. The testing needs to be relevant for the use case. Just because a steel isn't ideal for rope cutting doesn't make it useless.

 

[Reitwagen]

I've heard about this knife or that "holding an edge" long before anyone uttered the words "super steel." Then as now, I wonder why so many people are so worried about sharpening a knife once in a while. If I use my 112 enough in a work day, I'll have to sharpen it. I have a diamond hone in the truck, it takes about a minute, I'm okay with that.

 

[Mo2]

Does the BOS heat treat on Buck's 420HC make it a competitor to the likes of S30V and CPM-154 in regard to edge retention?

Is the BOS heat treat something special?

No. Not even close. It is absolutely a great heat treatment on some budget steel though.

 

[knarfeng]

https://www.everydaycommentary.com/...17/7/7/cedric-and-adas-steel-test-and-results this one?

I can't really believe that 440C clocks in below 420HC in this test though, as well as M4 below LC200N.

It doesn't.
The test method is bogus. They neither measure nor control the hardness.
Cutting tests are only valid to compare alloys if the alloys are all at the same hardness.

 

[John_0917]

Bos 420HC reminds me of the old F150 SVT lightning...it would go about as fast as you could make an F150 go...but it’s still an F150! There is a point where you can only get so much out of a given item, on the plus side 420HC has excellent stain resistance.

 

[Mo2]

It doesn't.
The test method is bogus. They neither measure nor control the hardness.
Cutting tests are only valid to compare alloys if the alloys are all at the same hardness.

You can have two completely different heat treatments and get the same hardness. One could be very poor and give way different results.

I don't think it's bogus at all... Just not what you want it to be. It's just data...its not absolute and many variables .. But it's a piece of the puzzle. People make their own interpretation of the data and that also becomes another variable.

 

[knarfeng]

You can have two completely different heat treatments and get the same hardness. One could be very poor and give way different results.

I don't think it's bogus at all... Just not what you want it to be. It's just data...its not absolute and many variables .. But it's a piece of the puzzle. People make their own interpretation of the data and that also becomes another variable.

Any "data" that shows 420HC outperforming 440C is bogus.

 

[Mo2]

Any "data" that shows 420HC outperforming 440C is bogus.

That 440c was a ganzo. It's a crap ht vs boss ht. No competition. I'd love to see a good cryo 440c ht. If I get the cash some day I'll send him one. But regardless of that it won't matter to you. But it's something I've wanted to see more data on.

 

[jbmonkey]

I'm a bit smitten with the 124 Frontiersman (good size , thick blade , full tang etc). But it's only available in 420HC. Thus my curiosity for said steel.

it will do fine, for what it is.... but the hollow grind doesnt help for heavy chopping, imho. I use mine as a big knife not a chopper. might do okay, but I got knives with better steels and better grinds for heavy chopping.

 

[knarfeng]

That 440c was a ganzo. It's a crap ht vs boss ht. No competition. I'd love to see a good cryo 440c ht. If I get the cash some day I'll send him one. But regardless of that it won't matter to you. But it's something I've wanted to see more data on.

Then he should have annotated it as such, so that people such as the person on the first page who first quoted that "testing", are not confused. As it is, the "tester" is showing that Buck 420HC holds an edge better than 440C, which we all know is utter nonsense. Posting nonsense does not help anyone.

 

[Bigfattyt]

Another factor that greatly affects cutting tests is steel geometry... beyond just edge angle. Thicker behind the edge, thicker spine, steeper or shallower primary grind angle...

 

[strategy9]

Does the BOS heat treat on Buck's 420HC make it a competitor to the likes of S30V and CPM-154 in regard to edge retention?

Is the BOS heat treat something special?

Yes Bos HT is something special... every good heat treat is, like getting a souffle' to raise just right, but no; it is not going to match a "well heat treated" s30v, s35v, 154cm, even 440c in edge retention.... it will hold a solid edge (for the steel alloy) however, and be tough as nails and more rust resistant then many "higher end" alloys out there. Bos maximizes the efficiency of his HT's, and as such it does still have its strengths. Guy earned his reputation through years of quality work anchored on the backbone of Buck's 420hc