Buck 420HC w/ BOS heat treat. How does it compare?

I saw that same cliff stamp video where he compared a svord peasant to otk edc cutting rope....the otk cut longer because it micro chipped the edge...which leads me to wonder:

A) how many of y'all are using a honing steel to regain your edge on these 420 blades?

B)for the super steel folks is it even wise to use a honing rod on these types of steels? I would think that would make micro chipping worse especially on a new rough honing steel.
 
knarfeng said:
Then he should have annotated it as such, so that people such as the person on the first page who first quoted that "testing", are not confused. As it is, the "tester" is showing that Buck 420HC holds an edge better than 440C, which we all know is utter nonsense. Posting nonsense does not help anyone.
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it's really up to the viewer to know. He can't know every hrc or ht involved in every model knife. He's open about this and even notes that In a video or two about his procedures. He referenced Ankersons tests that actually takes hrc ratings and openly recommends other testers data as well.

I mean to be so meticulous, you'd never get something done and spend even more time for such little gain. It's already greatly appreciated that he's put all this time onto it. I mean I really appreciate Ankerson's work alot too. And cliff stamp and many of the Russians that do this too. But anyway I'm not trying to convince you of anything, I understand your request, but look at his perspective too. In any case in a perfect world you'd be 100% correct. But there is no perfect world. I'm just glad I can interpret this data along with other information from other tests to help me visualize the steel a little better.

To base an opinion on just one knifes data is not idea and I'm fairly certain most people should know this. Sadly not everyone is going to be so smart. More data or more knowledge on the subject will be needed to change that perspective perhaps. Larrin is doing a fantastic job at the knowledge half.
 
strategy9 said:
Yes Bos HT is something special... every good heat treat is, like getting a souffle' to raise just right, but no; it is not going to match a "well heat treated" s30v, s35v, 154cm, even 440c in edge retention.... it will hold a solid edge (for the steel alloy) however, and be tough as nails and more rust resistant then many "higher end" alloys out there. Bos maximizes the efficiency of his HT's, and as such it does still have its strengths. Guy earned his reputation through years of quality work anchored on the backbone of Buck's 420hc
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Very true
 
My perspective is "not to disseminate nonsense in the guise of useful information".
In this instance, "Don't pretend to do valid testing, ignore a major variable, then publish that 420HC holds an edge better than 440C."
 
knarfeng said:
My perspective is "not to disseminate nonsense in the guise of useful information".
In this instance, "Don't pretend to do valid testing, ignore a major variable, then publish that 420HC holds an edge better than 440C."
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Major? Edge angle seems to be the major variable in edge retention. And he's saying ganzos 440c. He didn't say any other 440c. He's not comparing every knife in 440c.
 
If you like the knife buy it and see how it preforms in your situations that you would use it for.If you do not like like sell it on the exchange.I have been very pleased with every Buck pocketknife I have ever owned
 
Wolverine666 said:
I'm a bit smitten with the 124 Frontiersman (good size , thick blade , full tang etc). But it's only available in 420HC. Thus my curiosity for said steel.
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I say go for it. Buck's heat treat is good enough that you'll forget it's 420HC. And it's a pleasure to sharpen. Also, I feel the price is more than fair, so why not give it a shot?
 
Wolverine666 said:
I'm a bit smitten with the 124 Frontiersman (good size , thick blade , full tang etc). But it's only available in 420HC. Thus my curiosity for said steel.
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That's a nice one but I've had my eye on the 120 General for a while... what a beast!

I have to admit I'm not much of a steel geek. I can appreciate the newer premium steels but to be honest ease of sharpening is high on my list too. I like Buck's 420HC: it's a dream to sharpen, highly resistant to corrosion, and the edge retention is okay. I don't mind doing quick touch ups more frequently versus sharpening something like S90V less frequently. That's not to say I'd prefer 420HC over other premium steels, but it has its benefits. That said, I love my S30V custom Buck 110!

The way some people talk about the BOS 420HC on the Buck subforum you'd think it is magical and operates outside of the laws of physics. It's not amazing as far as steels go but it is definitely an improved 420HC, and I would not hesitate to by a Buck knife because it is 420HC. Try it and see how you like it; millions like Buck, you aren't going to be disappointed. It's like not buying an Opinel because it isn't CPM-20CV.
 
Mo2 said:
Major? Edge angle seems to be the major variable in edge retention. And he's saying ganzos 440c. He didn't say any other 440c. He's not comparing every knife in 440c.
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Most people think "440C is 440C" just like they think "440A is 440A" or "D2 is D2", etc. etc..
Most people don't know there can be or is a difference in the same blade steels between one brand of knife and another.

I don't know if edge angle is the major variable concerning edge retention.
I know the edge geometry has a great deal to do with how well a blade slices or cuts various materials.
I also know that the edge on a harder blade (higher RC) generally lasts longer than the edge on a softer (lower RC) blade, all else being equal.
Naturally the harder blade is more difficult to sharpen when it needs it, as well.
 
Lodd said:
I say go for it. Buck's heat treat is good enough that you'll forget it's 420HC. And it's a pleasure to sharpen. Also, I feel the price is more than fair, so why not give it a shot?
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I actually owned a 124 before. Never used it. Got it as a gift and I just let it sit in the box untouched. So I sold it. Now it looks appealing to me when I see it online.

I'm looking to beef up my fixed blade collection. So I'm also looking at a couple Bark Rivers (Bravo 1.5 and Marauder) and also the Spyderco Darn Dao. I want them all.
 
Buck make very good, affordable knives. But, as knarfeng knarfeng says, the Bos HT does not produce miracles. I own several Buck knives, and my first ever locking folder was a 110. Great knife and I am very much attached to it - loads of happy memories ingrained. Still, I don’t take it out much these days, I must admit.
 
Another thing to add is that Bos has been around so long that others have imitated him. There is similar carbon content steel that performs comparably, as far as I can tell. Victorinox has a pretty good ht on their budget sak’s, gerber, Kershaw and other in the us have made 420hc that comes close to bos’. He did an amazing job with his procedure for (relatively soft) s30v and 154cm that will slice as deeply as others’ with a higher hardness(as far as I have seen.) Good 440c is much tougher to sharpen, and will hold an edge much longer than any 420hc, as knarfeng already established.
 
LG&M said:
This thread makes me want to buy a new Buck knife.
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Their custom knives are pretty nice albeit pricey. I bought a custom 110 with nickel bolsters and buckeye burl scales in S30V and it's a great knife. Still, I don't carry this around as I used to carry my old 110, mostly because I have lighter EDC knives that are just more practical.
 
strategy9 said:
Yes Bos HT is something special... every good heat treat is, like getting a souffle' to raise just right, but no; it is not going to match a "well heat treated" s30v, s35v, 154cm, even 440c in edge retention.... it will hold a solid edge (for the steel alloy) however, and be tough as nails and more rust resistant then many "higher end" alloys out there. Bos maximizes the efficiency of his HT's, and as such it does still have its strengths. Guy earned his reputation through years of quality work anchored on the backbone of Buck's 420hc
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Paul Bos retired a few years ago. It's "Buck" heat treat now but I believe Buck has rights to the name.
 
brownshoe said:
Paul Bos retired a few years ago. It's "Buck" heat treat now but I believe Buck has rights to the name.
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True. They carry it on in the same way, as far as I am aware. Bottom line is they know how to get the very best out of 420hc. Thing is, the very best 420hc is not equal, nor anywhere near equal, to many other knife steels. It’s just fine and we all used it for years, or at least some of us older people did, but times change.
 
Exactly. Bos get the most out of the steel. Check out a 110 with 420HC. American made, Brass, Coco bola. Up till this year could be had for 28 dollars. Theres the benefit of 420HC. Decent enough for most people everyday use. Or you can get S30V, S90V, BG42, D2, S35VN, Damascus for more exciting options.
 
Wolverine666 said:
I'm a bit smitten with the 124 Frontiersman (good size , thick blade , full tang etc). But it's only available in 420HC. Thus my curiosity for said steel.
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Its not like it is tin foil. If you like the knife then the steel is perfectly adequate for usage. You won’t be like “this knife was a waste of money.” Just pretend the year is 1980 and 420hc is a super steel.

Also you may actually enjoy its good qualities. Like how tough it is. It actually feels good to get a steel super sharp in a matter of 2 minutes on the stones too. Maybe you can add a little pouch to the front of the sheath and carry a little ceramic sharpener around with the knife.

Whatever the case it is a beautiful knife.
 
Mo2 said:
Major? Edge angle seems to be the major variable in edge retention. And he's saying ganzos 440c. He didn't say any other 440c. He's not comparing every knife in 440c.
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"edge angle" is not a function of the steel. It's a function of the blade.
We were comparing alloy performance. To do that, you have to hold both the edge angle and the hardness constant. Otherwise the effects due to alloy composition get masked by the other variables.
 
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