Buck blade steel

their has to be a reason I guess there aren't many metallurgists out there. God bless
 
Yes jun, there is. Buck switched from 425 to 420 because the former was more wearing on tooling and stock cost. The vanadium and molybdenum elements probably did it. Then there were some manufactoring differences in the steels which showed up when they were mirror polished. DM
 
Good Day. I'm a newbie to knives just this last summer, and have been reading a lot of various blade steel articles and charts. There is a huge literature on this, and it's interesting to read. I'm wondering about this Buck manufacturing change, and what is the impact (good or bad) on the users? Are knowledgeable knife folk okay with this? Do you think it is a good change, and that Buck knives are now an improved product?

I've not read much about the 425M steel. But the most interesting description I've read on the 420HC steel is listed on the bestpocketknifetoday.com web page: http://bestpocketknifetoday.com/discovering-the-best-knife-steel/ The paragraph states:

420HC Generally considered the king of the 420 steels, 420HC is similar to 420 steel but with increased levels of carbon (HC stands for High Carbon) which makes the steel harder. Still considered a lower-mid range steel but the more competent manufacturers (e.g. Buck) can really bring out the best in this affordable steel using quality heat treatments. That results in better edge retention and resistance to corrosion. In fact, this is one of the most corrosion resistant steels out there, despite it’s low cost.
Click to expand...

This description seems to contain mostly pluses about this steel type. Anyway, please take my brief comments with a huge grain of salt. I'm a very new "newbie" simply eager to learn more about knives. Have a great day.


David Martin said:
Yes jun, there is. Buck switched from 425 to 420 because the former was more wearing on tooling and stock cost. The vanadium and molybdenum elements probably did it. Then there were some manufactoring differences in the steels which showed up when they were mirror polished. DM
Click to expand...
 
"Consumer Demands" is what drives changes in products and industries. Do they demand higher quality? Do they demand lower costs? Do they demand both? There are infinite more "demands" but these two are usually the top of all lists.

How do you improve quality and lower (or maintain cost)? Improving manufacturing by automation or simplifying processes saves costs. Those cost savings can either be passed to the consumer in dollars, or applied to upgraded materials for higher perceived quality.

I don't know Buck's reason for changing from 440c to 420hc; but I expect is has something to do with those two demands. Higher quality in one's eye, may be a sacrifice to another, so there's no keeping everyone happy, all of the time. Is a knife that is easier to sharpen an upgrade over one that's very difficult? Perhaps easier maintenance is, at least in some people's minds, an upgrade. Is more rust resistant blade an upgrade over a blade that is more susceptible to spotting? I would believe it is.

Perhaps it's no coincidence that Buck uses 420HC versus 440, S30V, AUS8 or anything else as their base steel. Just maybe... 420HC is the pedestrian user upgrade from 440, that is coincidentally easier on Buck's equipment, and comes at a less expensive cost that allows Buck to keep these fine knives affordable.

420HC seems to be a win-win. Manufacturer maintains a reasonable margin and the average consumer gets a quality knife they can use and maintain.

There are upgraded steels out there for the "advanced knife user" too...
 
420 is a basic steel. Easy to sharpen & a good stainless, holds a ok edge. I see it used in commercial knives at meat markets, deli's and bakery's. Of course this switch allowed Buck to produce more knives. DM
 
Hi,Thanks David it sounds correct, I'm pretty sure they quit 440C because of fineblanking in 1981, it was the 425M to 420HC I didn't know about,Thanks again George God bless
 
Appreciate all your responses. I'm on another forum, and I chat there with a person (Geddinight), who is also on BF. He really likes Bucks, and he introduced me to Buck knives and to the company. And he also pointed me to look at BF, and said there were a lot of very knowledgeable folk here. He was right.

Anyway, I like the Buck company's CS stance and product warranty. I've only purchased one Buck so far, and am looking to add another to my small, just-starting knife collection. Thanks again, and have a great day!
 
Appreciate the Welcome, as well your comments on the blade steel, DM.

My next thread read is one I've just found, and am thoroughly enjoying it, comment-by-comment. It is a thread filled with many great photos and comments of knife usage as happens in "Farm Life." From what I'm reading so far, it looks like you're the "tractor" guiding the harvest. Enjoying it, and might stop by there, too. I'm originally a city dweller (edge of Chicago), and have enjoyed different locations of rural living over the years -- central Iowa, southern WI, now in MO. The sharing in "Farm Life" has been cool...will finish it pretty soon. Thanks again, and take care.

David Martin said:
Thanks boz, and welcome to the Buck Forum. DM
Click to expand...
 
I have several Buck folders, including a brass and ironwood adorned Ranger. After whittling, camping chores, trimming modeling plastic, and terminating cab tire (HD extension cord cable) I've made the following observations about Buck's 420HC and their knives in general:

-It sharpens easily
-It will take a pretty good edge
-It's very corrosion resistant
-Excellent fit and finish, especially on the Ranger
-Abysmal edge retention for a knife that costs more than $20

I've also noticed something about the discussion about edge retention. You'll see people that have old Bucks made from 440c say stuff like 'my old buck could make it through X deer before noticeably dulling. My new Buck won't make it through one deer'. Proponents of 420HC will just say 'it's great' without giving context.
 
MarfanTheMartian said:
I have several Buck folders, including a brass and ironwood adorned Ranger. After whittling, camping chores, trimming modeling plastic, and terminating cab tire (HD extension cord cable) I've made the following observations about Buck's 420HC and their knives in general:

-It sharpens easily
-It will take a pretty good edge
-It's very corrosion resistant
-Excellent fit and finish, especially on the Ranger
-Abysmal edge retention for a knife that costs more than $20

I've also noticed something about the discussion about edge retention. You'll see people that have old Bucks made from 440c say stuff like 'my old buck could make it through X deer before noticeably dulling. My new Buck won't make it through one deer'. Proponents of 420HC will just say 'it's great' without giving context.
Click to expand...

Is the edge retention "abysmal" after any particular use? I presume terminating the cable means your cutting wire of some sort? With regards to context, could you provide some?
 
I am glad to see someone else doesn't understand what "terminating cab tire'' means... I am also glad to see you (Marfan) visiting the Buck Forum. Welcome. I can give you plenty of context but I'll wait and see how your first 10 posts go. Could be the sharpening. DM
 
Badhammer, I don't remember how many cable ends I terminated before my ranger went dull, but I got more done with my $12 Mora craftline Q than my $60 Buck.

I completely gave up on whittling or making fire sticks with a buck and I completely gave up on using it for trimming plastic modeling pieces. I'm actually using a cutco paring knife for that now because the edge retention is far superior to the buck bantams my son and I tried to use.

I think your question is insincere, and you'll likely dismiss everything I'm saying without considering it, but I know what my experience has been.
 
Last edited:
uh huh, I mention a direct sale brand and all of a sudden I'm a shill and everything I've said is invalid? Is that what you're getting at?

Ya no. I married in to a set. Personally I'd never buy them. But does one of their paring knives hold an edge much longer than a Buck Bantam when trimming modeling pieces? Yes. That's my experience.
 
MarfanTheMartian said:
Badhammer, I don't remember how many cable ends I terminated before my ranger went dull, but I got more done with my $12 Mora craftline Q than my $60 Buck.

I completely gave up on whittling or making fire sticks with a buck and I completely gave up on using it for trimming plastic modeling pieces. I'm actually using a cutco paring knife for that now because the edge retention is far superior to the buck bantams my son and I tried to use.

I think your question is insincere, and you'll likely dismiss everything I'm saying without considering it, but I know what my experience has been.
Click to expand...

I'm quite sincere and was simply asking for some detail. It sounds like you use your knives more for non traditional cutting tasks than traditional. Perhaps the difference in bevels is making more of a difference than brand. Personally I might use one of the folding box cutter designs or maybe even a pair of wire cutters rather than a Buck 112.
 
You mentioned the Cutco steel and I gave a discussion on it. Some of the Camullis made Buck's have used that steel. It should cut and perform the same. DM
 
Last edited:
A lot depends on the heat treat, and Buck's recipe for 420HC is reputedly the best in the business. Good, tough, stain-resistant steel that takes a very fine edge. That said, there are better steels but those are usually tougher to sharpen, which can be a challenge for a whole lot of people (millions, if you go by sales), most of whom are quite satisfied with Buck's basic steel. I'm going to order a 112 in S30V in a couple of days. And I love my BassPro 110 in CPM154.
 
All I will say is that I miss the old 440C. The 420HC is not awful, but no one should expect this steel to be a wonder steel. Let's be realistic.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top