Buck blade steel

BuckShack said:
That's what I heard too. But I see S30V as a regular offering in the custom shop and limited runs of 5160, CPM 154, BG42 etc. from time to time. I figured some of these are as hard or harder than 440C but I really don't know.
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I'm not sure either. I can't recall if it was the BCCI slippy in BG42 or another offering but I think Joe Houser posted that it was the last of the BG42 and Buck wouldn't be using that steel any more. Actually, now that I think about it, it was the DP 110 in BG42 that SK Blades came out with last December. That's supposedly the last blade Buck made in BG42. I love the steel. I guess it's probably tied with ATS34 and 440c as my favorite Steel.

Not sure why I like ATS34 so much. It's basically the Japanese version of 154cm but I'd rather have the ATS. Just a quirk of mine I guess
 
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To answer your question George there was a specific manufacturer that made 425 Modified which was called Cyclops Steel.Just as Latrobe is the manufacturer of 420HC.Cyclops Steel went under in the early 90's so the steel was discontinued. Buck turned to Latrobe as a provider of 420HC for a fine blanking alternative.

My opinion on 425M?
Well the steel exists today as an improved or MkII version on the original composition called N680 by Bohler.425M took a few more licks to sharpen over 420HC but still field serviceable and took a razor edge.425M was an interesting stainless-fine grained like a 420 Series stainless yet noticeably more wear resistant from a high amount of molybdenum making it more relative to the 440 Series.It was a like 440A in edge life but a litter faster sharpening with the sharpness quality of 420HC.

I never heard of Buck having trouble blanking this steel in comparison to 440C.It would be worth it to see Buck have someone resurrect this steel or pay a few more dollars to have N680 brought in for a few years to see how users like it.
 
I much prefer 420HC as Buck's 440C was a b*tch to sharpen. I wore out a bunch of carborundum hones trying to put an edge on that stuff (that was before diamond hones were commonly available). In CATRA tests 420HC out-performed 440C, I believe, maybe one reason for the switch. The newer steels like S30V, CPM154 (BassPro 110) D2 and 5160 are far better than 440C and it would be great to see those offered on more Buck knives.
 
Martian Troll. I got out my telescope and looked at the stars towards Mars. I spotted this little guy sabotaging this Buck thread. I noticed he was standing alone. I got a pic of him before he scurried back under the rock where he lives.
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Frotier76 said:
To answer your question George there was a specific manufacturer that made 425 Modified which was called Cyclops Steel.Just as Latrobe is the manufacturer of 420HC.Cyclops Steel went under in the early 90's so the steel was discontinued. Buck turned to Latrobe as a provider of 420HC for a fine blanking alternative.

My opinion on 425M?
Well the steel exists today as an improved or MkII version on the original composition called N680 by Bohler.425M took a few more licks to sharpen over 420HC but still field serviceable and took a razor edge.425M was an interesting stainless-fine grained like a 420 Series stainless yet noticeably more wear resistant from a high amount of molybdenum making it more relative to the 440 Series.It was a like 440A in edge life but a litter faster sharpening with the sharpness quality of 420HC.

I never heard of Buck having trouble blanking this steel in comparison to 440C.It would be worth it to see Buck have someone resurrect this steel or pay a few more dollars to have N680 brought in for a few years to see how users like it.
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If you look at post #3 in the thread linked below there is a quote from Joe Houser regarding 440c and the wear on their equipment.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...uck-110-Performance?highlight=Buck+440c+steel
 
I actually really like Bucks 420hc. I find it, along with well made knives in 12c27 to be some of my favorite steels used in production knives. Low carbide volume means high edge stability at low angles. Plus it is reasonable to sharpen, making a good working knife. If I hit some grit/metal/whatever I'm going to dull my knife regardless of the blade steel. That traumatic damage is then easier to repair on 420hc or 12c27. These steels also have great rust resistance, and high toughness. Even if everything else was equal between a knife with 420hc/12c27 and steels in a different class like cpm-m4 or whatever I would usually reach for the knife with the "lower" class steel. Then there's the fact that these knives are often very affordable. $10-$30 gets you a lot of quality knives with these steels. Even the beautiful 110 can be had in this price range!

If someone is having trouble with Bucks 420hc losing it's edge after a couple cuts and readily concludes the edge retention is "abysmal," especially on wood/plastic then I would say at least one of the following is going on. There could be unseen grit/abrasive material in the medium being cut. The sharpening technique may be inadequate (burr, fatigued steel, not fully apexing the edge, poor initial sharpness). Or maybe something was done wrong at the factory regarding heat treat/grinding. Heat treat problems are unlikely, since these low carbide stainless steels have been around for awhile and the heat treat method is usually down pat. In all the Buck, Mora, Victorinox, Wustof, ect knives I have had I have never seen a heat treat problem and I don't really hear about them either. I could see getting a lemon, but objectively finding all of Buck's 420hc across various knives/models poor compared to similar steels from other manufacturers would be unlikely. I also don't think you should see much difference between Bucks 420hc and Mora's 12c27 unless you are doing very controlled cutting and recording a lot of data. Even then, I reckon they will probably be about the same.
 
Guys I like Buck knives a great deal and I will not carry a 420hc for EDC because of the Martians complaints but it sounds like he and I do similar jobs, I have come to prefer the disposable razor folders for work. I really rarely even buy Buck knives that aren't S30V unless it's one that I'm not really buying for duty. The Momentum I've been carrying for EDC is S30V and I've been very happy with the blade steel a little annoyed at the assisted opening however. This year's Christmas purchases for my boys I picked up 3 Paklite Skinners in blue and 3 of the Open Season Moose Skinners in S35V those Moose skinners are an impressive knife. I'm sure the boys will get a lifetime of enjoyment out of them. Had those not made it onto my Christmas radar this year I'm sure I would of gotten them the Open Season Boning knives in S30V those would be some workhorses for game processing. Guess there's always next year.
 
Kansaswoodguy said:
Guys I like Buck knives a great deal and I will not carry a 420hc for EDC because of the Martians complaints but it sounds like he and I do similar jobs, I have come to prefer the disposable razor folders for work. I really rarely even buy Buck knives that aren't S30V unless it's one that I'm not really buying for duty. The Momentum I've been carrying for EDC is S30V and I've been very happy with the blade steel a little annoyed at the assisted opening however. This year's Christmas purchases for my boys I picked up 3 Paklite Skinners in blue and 3 of the Open Season Moose Skinners in S35V those Moose skinners are an impressive knife. I'm sure the boys will get a lifetime of enjoyment out of them. Had those not made it onto my Christmas radar this year I'm sure I would of gotten them the Open Season Boning knives in S30V those would be some workhorses for game processing. Guess there's always next year.
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I could see why s30v may be more suited to your uses than 420hc, but Martian seems to find very similar knife steels to 420hc far and away superior across the board. There is nothing in steel composition, blade geo, heat treat, ect to account for this.

If he was having problems with one knife it might be a qc issue, but he insists buck's 420hc writ large isnt nearly as good as Cutco or Mora stainless, when the difference between the steels should be difficult to tell in general use without controlled testing.
 
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Maybe it's me but there has been a run of negatives posted lately. Most are by names I don't recognize.:confused:
 
I used a 4 dot 110 for years on small game and deer,did well enough,no complaints... I did butcher a couple of deer this year with my 118 D2 knives,they definitely hold and edge better and we're easy to touch up with a carbide stone 1200 grit until to many bone touches... I used 1 D2 and did 1 deer and another hind quarter before it would not touch back up quickly... takes time to resharpen them though,using CS-HD silicon carbide hand stones...
 
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I agree, 425M is a good step up in edge retention from 420. I thought it was from those elements mentioned and more chromium & it has vanadium which contributes toward this. Buck offered this steel in all their knives for 10 years. Hence, a model with it is not hard to find. DM
 
Badhammer said:
I'm not sure either. I can't recall if it was the BCCI slippy in BG42 or another offering but I think Joe Houser posted that it was the last of the BG42 and Buck wouldn't be using that steel any more. Actually, now that I think about it, it was the DP 110 in BG42 that SK Blades came out with last December. That's supposedly the last blade Buck made in BG42. I love the steel. I guess it's probably tied with ATS34 and 440c as my favorite Steel.

Not sure why I like ATS34 so much. It's basically the Japanese version of 154cm but I'd rather have the ATS. Just a quirk of mine I guess
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I was able to pick up a DP 110 in BG42 by SK Blades when they were available. It's the only knife I have with this steel and with it's limited availability I've been afraid to throw it into my rotation to see if it's as good as people have said. I probably will eventually.

I wouldn't mind one with ATS34.
 
Alberta Ed said:
I much prefer 420HC as Buck's 440C was a b*tch to sharpen. I wore out a bunch of carborundum hones trying to put an edge on that stuff (that was before diamond hones were commonly available). In CATRA tests 420HC out-performed 440C, I believe, maybe one reason for the switch. The newer steels like S30V, CPM154 (BassPro 110) D2 and 5160 are far better than 440C and it would be great to see those offered on more Buck knives.
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I've been a fan of 5160 since it was introduced in a 110 by Copper & Clad. I've carried mine pretty much. It seems to be easy to sharpen, gets a nice edge and while I have not run it though it's paces fully, it has kept it's edge well.

It's interesting to hear that 5160 is as a better steel than 440C.

Does anyone else have an opinion where 5160 might fall in line with the likes of S30V, CPM154, 440C, 425M and 420HC in particular?
 
BuckShack said:
I've been a fan of 5160 since it was introduced in a 110 by Copper & Clad. I've carried mine pretty much. It seems to be easy to sharpen, gets a nice edge and while I have not run it though it's paces fully, it has kept it's edge well.

It's interesting to hear that 5160 is as a better steel than 440C.

Does anyone else have an opinion where 5160 might fall in line with the likes of S30V, CPM154, 440C, 425M and 420HC in particular?
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5160, 420hc, and 425m are all going to be very similar steels at a similar Rockwell wrt edge retention. 5160 will be tougher, and is not stainless.

With quality heat treats 440c and cpm154 will be very similar to each other. These steels are higher carbide than the previous group. Sometimes the 440c label is used a little loosely and/or it is underhardened more often than cpm154.

S30v is higher carbide still and typically comes a few hrc higher in production knives.

Whether or not one of these steels is "better" than another depends on your uses.
 
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See now I'd say to someone if they didn't like 420HC and wanted to skip trying the edge retention of several stainless steels in the chain...to just get a knife in 1095 Carbon Steel.People looking for the traits of quick sharpening,great edge definition,and just overall much better edge retention to different kinds of materials while keeping it low cost at the sacrifice of rust resistance.Nothing wrong with premium steels but there's so many and also more to pick at than just inexpensive stainless steels.420HC isn't diamond grade stuff but as an average person and a hunting steel it's a moderate performer in my book.To me in beats using a Chinese steel that seems to dull quicker than 420HC(regardless of it's composition) and takes longer to sharpen from being very impure or badly heat treated.
 
This topic has morphed in to something of a better discussion on knife steels. With some legitimate knowledge / experience going forward.
It's been my experience that when 440C is taken up to 59rc it cuts right with S30V & 154cm. CPM154 will cut longer (100 more cuts on 1/2" sisal rope). Which is not a lot so, they do group together well. Still, we're only cutting and that doesn't tell us results like a Charpy test, how difficult it is to sharpen after dulling, how stain resistant, ect.. One
should notice solid, consistent performance out of any of these level steels. For everyday cutting we steel snobs don't really need the latest whiz bang in vogue steel. It's a rope or an apple and hardened steel will cut it. No problems. Besides, the grind profile and sound heat treat will really enhance steel performance over the type of steel. DM
 
49ereric said:
I used a 4 dot 110 for years on small game and deer,did well enough,no complaints... I did butcher a couple of deer this year with my 118 D2 knives,they definitely hold and edge better and we're easy to touch up with a carbide stone 1200 grit until to many bone touches... I used 1 D2 and did 1 deer and another hind quarter before it would not touch back up quickly... takes time to resharpen them though,using CS-HD silicon carbide hand stones...
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^^^^Nice real world use.

I did the same with a Paklite Elite boner in S30v this year. I processed one deer in its entirety from start to finish. When finished I was still able to shave hair from my arm. I was very very impressed and have not touched up the blade at all. With any luck me or one of the boys will get another deer before the close of our gun season on this coming Sunday and I'm going to use the same knife on that one as well.
 
Actually, now that I think about it, it was the Drop Point 110 in BG42 that SK Blades came out with last December. That's supposedly the last blade Buck made in BG42.

I hope that's not the case. But I also remember SK Blades said they used the last of the Buck D2 steel also.
 
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