Buck lock strength

[MT_Pokt]

Interestingly, if watch closely as the Gerber fails in the first video it looks like their cable slipped past the end of the lock and destroyed the plastic handle. If that's the case, technically the lock didn't fail but their test equipment did.

 

[Makael]

Interestingly, if watch closely as the Gerber fails in the first video it looks like their cable slipped past the end of the lock and destroyed the plastic handle. If that's the case, technically the lock didn't fail but their test equipment did.

I agree.lockbacks are tough.

 

[TAH]

What's funny is, the main reason Buck added a lock was simply so the blade wouldn't accidently close when cleaning game. Little over cautious there, Buck? :thumbup:

 

[jbmonkey]

What's funny is, the main reason Buck added a lock was simply so the blade wouldn't accidently close when cleaning game. Little over cautious there, Buck? :thumbup:

better to have it over engineered and still at a affordable cost to us user/consumers, than not.

 

[TAH]

better to have it over engineered and still at a affordable cost to us user/consumers, than not.

Most definitely! :thumbup:

 

[pinnah]

Just a reminder from an engineer...

Doing well in testing for one failure mode doesn't predict success in other failure modes.

These videos are about resisting strong closing forces. I really never do this unless I've managed to get a knife stuck somehow (being stupid to begin with).

They don't predict the locks ability to stay closed during impacts or sudden releases of cutting energy.

The former has a bearing on bashing in car hoods, batoning and spine-wacking. Of these, batoning is the only thing I do with a knife (including some folders) but I don't do with a lock back. Sudden impacts can cause the lock bar to rise up momentarily, thus releasing the lock. (The advance made by the triad lock is that the stop pin prevents impacts on the blade from being transmitted to the lock bar. IMO, this is a real, legitimate advance.)

The latter can happen when cutting branches or saplings. Large cutting (opening) forces push the blade up and thus press the front of the lock bar up. If a lock back has any play in the system, you can usually feel this if you leave your thumb on the spine as you cut. When you suddenly pop through the the branch, the blade deloads like a sling shot or bow being released. On loose lockbacks, this can happen faster than the lockbar can spring back to its locked position. I've not had this happen but I've read numerous accounts on various forums of people having lock backs (of various manufacturers) close accidentally during this kind of cut. This is particularly dangerous to the fingers as there is no time to react and the blade is closing on the fingers.

Unlike putting strong closing forces on a knife or putting impacts on the knife, I actually make cuts in branches fairly regularly. I tend to not trust lock backs that have developed noticeable vertical play as I consider them prone to the sling-shot type failure. I imagine they would still test well on the weighted closing test though.

 

[jbmonkey]

Just a reminder from an engineer...

Doing well in testing for one failure mode doesn't predict success in other failure modes.

These videos are about resisting strong closing forces. I really never do this unless I've managed to get a knife stuck somehow (being stupid to begin with).

They don't predict the locks ability to stay closed during impacts or sudden releases of cutting energy.

The former has a bearing on bashing in car hoods, batoning and spine-wacking. Of these, batoning is the only thing I do with a knife (including some folders) but I don't do with a lock back. Sudden impacts can cause the lock bar to rise up momentarily, thus releasing the lock. (The advance made by the triad lock is that the stop pin prevents impacts on the blade from being transmitted to the lock bar. IMO, this is a real, legitimate advance.)

The latter can happen when cutting branches or saplings. Large cutting (opening) forces push the blade up and thus press the front of the lock bar up. If a lock back has any play in the system, you can usually feel this if you leave your thumb on the spine as you cut. When you suddenly pop through the the branch, the blade deloads like a sling shot or bow being released. On loose lockbacks, this can happen faster than the lockbar can spring back to its locked position. I've not had this happen but I've read numerous accounts on various forums of people having lock backs (of various manufacturers) close accidentally during this kind of cut. This is particularly dangerous to the fingers as there is no time to react and the blade is closing on the fingers.

Unlike putting strong closing forces on a knife or putting impacts on the knife, I actually make cuts in branches fairly regularly. I tend to not trust lock backs that have developed noticeable vertical play as I consider them prone to the sling-shot type failure. I imagine they would still test well on the weighted closing test though.

yeah but mostly its due to folks unocking the knife themselves from their grip and hand pressure applied than the.shock force. that would be a tremoudous force to.unlock the knife.

 

[pinnah]

yeah but mostly its due to folks unocking the knife themselves from their grip and hand pressure applied than the.shock force. that would be a tremoudous force to.unlock the knife.

How could hand pressure while cutting cause a 110 or 112 to open?

 

[jbmonkey]

How could hand pressure while cutting cause a 110 or 112 to open?

easy. ever seen how some hold knives and lean their hand pressure or heel of theor hand on the back of the scales by the lock release.

since we are asking and learning.....how could cutting a branch unlock it. done it thousand of times on many back locks including 110s and 112s never had one sling shot open once through the cut? i just dont understand this unless a tremendous amount of force was applied and the back lock was leaned towards unlock on making it easier to unlock in general.

 

[DocT]

Just a reminder from an engineer...

Doing well in testing for one failure mode doesn't predict success in other failure modes.

These videos are about resisting strong closing forces. I really never do this unless I've managed to get a knife stuck somehow (being stupid to begin with).

They don't predict the locks ability to stay closed during impacts or sudden releases of cutting energy.

The former has a bearing on bashing in car hoods, batoning and spine-wacking. Of these, batoning is the only thing I do with a knife (including some folders) but I don't do with a lock back. Sudden impacts can cause the lock bar to rise up momentarily, thus releasing the lock. (The advance made by the triad lock is that the stop pin prevents impacts on the blade from being transmitted to the lock bar. IMO, this is a real, legitimate advance.)

The latter can happen when cutting branches or saplings. Large cutting (opening) forces push the blade up and thus press the front of the lock bar up. If a lock back has any play in the system, you can usually feel this if you leave your thumb on the spine as you cut. When you suddenly pop through the the branch, the blade deloads like a sling shot or bow being released. On loose lockbacks, this can happen faster than the lockbar can spring back to its locked position. I've not had this happen but I've read numerous accounts on various forums of people having lock backs (of various manufacturers) close accidentally during this kind of cut. This is particularly dangerous to the fingers as there is no time to react and the blade is closing on the fingers.

Unlike putting strong closing forces on a knife or putting impacts on the knife, I actually make cuts in branches fairly regularly. I tend to not trust lock backs that have developed noticeable vertical play as I consider them prone to the sling-shot type failure. I imagine they would still test well on the weighted closing test though.

In my younger days I cut a lot of branches and small saplings with my lock backs. I have had an issue. I never stabbed a truck hood with one, or anything silly. But I have done some hard work on our ranch and of all the lock types, the lock back was the most reliable and the strongest that we found. Of course, this assumes a quality lock back because a cheap one will easily fail. However, liner locks are the worst.

That test BladeHQ did the Gerber's lock did not fail. The plastic handle broke. There is a second test video by they where they test only Spyderco knives and they use a wench with a force gauge. They tested 2 Delicas, a light use lock back and both broke the blades at the tang but the locks held, and this after significant force.

The Triad lock with that stop pin is certainly a good advance in lock design, but let's not forget that it is a lock back design.

 

[Old Hunter]

For me I use the Buck 110 as a "Folding Hunter" - looks plenty strong enough for that use. It's in an emergency that gear gets sacrificed by pushing it beyond it's design limitations - that is the nature of unpredictable situations - I'd still bet on a 110 over most other folders. OH

 

[pinnah]

easy. ever seen how some hold knives and lean their hand pressure or heel of theor hand on the back of the scales by the lock release.


since we are asking and learning.....how could cutting a branch unlock it. done it thousand of times on many back locks including 110s and 112s never had one sling shot open once through the cut? i just dont understand this unless a tremendous amount of force was applied and the back lock was leaned towards unlock on making it easier to unlock in general.

Nice picture of a clear 110 in this thread. Helps explain what can happen.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/840686-Transparent-or-clear-folding-knife-handles-Yea-or-nea

Lock rock has severs causes including worn pivot pins, worn lock bar pins, or a worn blade/lockbar interface. Regardless, two things happen under hard cutting with a lock back that has rock.

First, the opening force on the blade forces the front of the lock bar up.

Second, the blade pivots further around than it is designed to do, lowering the lock catch on the blade relative to the catch on lock bar.

When both of these happen, we have the possibility of the lock catches effectively disengaged from one another. When the cutting force on the blade is released instantly, as in cutting through a branch, the catch on the blade can pivot around faster than it can be captured by the lockbar.

I've only talked 2 people in my life who've reported this kind of accidental closing. I trust one and have no idea on the other, but it's certainly possible with the kickback design if it's worn down.

I'll never own a ColdSteel but the triad lock stops both of these causes. The blade can't rotate back (unless the stop pin is worn or bent) and the blade can't force the lock bar up under hard cutting or impacts.

I've moved lockbars with my grip on mid locks like the Slimline/Spitfire but never on a traditional lockback.

 

[jbmonkey]

Nice picture of a clear 110 in this thread. Helps explain what can happen.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...ent-or-clear-folding-knife-handles-Yea-or-nea

Lock rock has severs causes including worn pivot pins, worn lock bar pins, or a worn blade/lockbar interface. Regardless, two things happen under hard cutting with a lock back that has rock.

First, the opening force on the blade forces the front of the lock bar up.

Second, the blade pivots further around than it is designed to do, lowering the lock catch on the blade relative to the catch on lock bar.

When both of these happen, we have the possibility of the lock catches effectively disengaged from one another. When the cutting force on the blade is released instantly, as in cutting through a branch, the catch on the blade can pivot around faster than it can be captured by the lockbar.

I've only talked 2 people in my life who've reported this kind of accidental closing. I trust one and have no idea on the other, but it's certainly possible with the kickback design if it's worn down.

I'll never own a ColdSteel but the triad lock stops both of these causes. The blade can't rotate back (unless the stop pin is worn or bent) and the blade can't force the lock bar up under hard cutting or impacts.

I've moved lockbars with my grip on mid locks like the Slimline/Spitfire but never on a traditional lockback.

good info, thanks. so basically youre talking a wore componet /lock knife doing this. not a new and properly fucntioning one, correct?

 

[Makael]

For me I use the Buck 110 as a "Folding Hunter" - looks plenty strong enough for that use. It's in an emergency that gear gets sacrificed by pushing it beyond it's design limitations - that is the nature of unpredictable situations - I'd still bet on a 110 over most other folders. OH

I agree.

 

[pinnah]

good info, thanks. so basically youre talking a wore componet /lock knife doing this. not a new and properly fucntioning one, correct?

Yes, exactly.

I retire a lock back when I can feel the lockbar lift noticeably when doing heavy cutting. Ive not owned a traditional 110 or 112 with noticeable lock rock. But I've several lock backs develop bad rock, including a few Bucks.

 

[scottyj]

From the jungles of Vietnam to the yards of San Quentin. The buck 110 has withstood the test of time.

Dude I love this. :thumbup:

 

[Makael]

Dude I love this. :thumbup:

Ditto :thumbup:

 

[Xr6x]

Anyone who brought a 110 to the Jungles of Vietnam during War time, God rest there souls , by the time you fumble around with a folding sheath knife it would be over.






I would also think it's to heavy to hide in the only place that you might get one into San Quentin. Sorry for being real 🙄

 

[TAH]

Anyone who brought a 110 to the Jungles of Vietnam during War time, God rest there souls , by the time you fumble around with a folding sheath knife it would be over.

I'll bet the soldiers carrying a 110 were also carrying a 119.

 

[jec88]

Is there any simple way to take out "lock rock" on a hard used 110? I've picked up some hard used 110s along the way and a few have that.

I have found a simple way to take out any side to side wiggle in less than a minute that seems to work better than the old phone book method and if you don't own a vice. I just wrap the front bolster in a wash cloth and I have a large C-clamp and I just snug it up. If they are going to have any side to side wiggle, they usually do when the knife is closed too. I just snug and when I don't feel any more wiggle while clamping in the closed position, give it one more snug and all side to side is gone in an old wore out 110...........I"m still trying to figure out the up and down wiggle aside from taking one apart.
But you can tighten out any side to side on an old 110 quicker than you can locate the right torx size on a modern screw together knife.