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Buck!!! What were you thinking?
- Thread starter TonyC
- Start date
textoothpk
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"Personally I like Taiwan, cause they are flying the big middle finger at communist China."
In fact, Taiwan is being very careful NOT to fly the big middle finger at the hungry and massive country of 'Red China'.
I agree with the previous posters request for disclosure... letting us know what is made where. 'OffShore', as Remington is using in their advertising for lower end knives is not good enough. And 'International' doesn't cut it either.
In fact, Taiwan is being very careful NOT to fly the big middle finger at the hungry and massive country of 'Red China'.
I agree with the previous posters request for disclosure... letting us know what is made where. 'OffShore', as Remington is using in their advertising for lower end knives is not good enough. And 'International' doesn't cut it either.
My experience with "foreign made" Buck Knives is the Diamondback 4.25, made in Taiwan, and the new "exclusive" 'Buck Knives Deer Hunter Collectible' available at Wal*Mart, made in China.
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/prod...e=21&dept=4125&path=0:4125:120218:4141:121603
I'm not so certain that Buck Knives, alone, is making the decision to produce and import knives from Taiwan and China. In my opinion, Buck Knives' biggest customer, Wal*Mart, is helping Buck to make that decision, because, apparently, Wal*Mart's selected/chosen price range for Buck knives runs between $19.95 to $25, and not too many Buck Knives, made in America, fit into that range.
I've checked out almost two hundred web sites through a "Buck Diamondback 4.25" search at Google, and none of them, not even the Buck Knives web site, mentioned that the Buck Diamondback knife is either imported or made in Taiwan. One site,
http://www.hardhatusa.com/itemdetail.asp?itemid=B-471-BK
even advertises the Buck Diamondback as "Made in U.S.A."
There are going to be alot of people buying a Buck knife during this holiday season, and I think that alot are going to be disappointed to see either "China" or "Taiwan" stamped into the blade, when Buck has such a history of being 'Made In America.' I wish that we could turn back the tide and let Buck Knives charge what they need to, for quality-made American knives, so that none have to be produced overseas, but I worry that cheap prices, rather than great quality from an outstanding manufacturer, is becoming the predominate determining factor.
GeoThorn
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/prod...e=21&dept=4125&path=0:4125:120218:4141:121603
I'm not so certain that Buck Knives, alone, is making the decision to produce and import knives from Taiwan and China. In my opinion, Buck Knives' biggest customer, Wal*Mart, is helping Buck to make that decision, because, apparently, Wal*Mart's selected/chosen price range for Buck knives runs between $19.95 to $25, and not too many Buck Knives, made in America, fit into that range.
I've checked out almost two hundred web sites through a "Buck Diamondback 4.25" search at Google, and none of them, not even the Buck Knives web site, mentioned that the Buck Diamondback knife is either imported or made in Taiwan. One site,
http://www.hardhatusa.com/itemdetail.asp?itemid=B-471-BK
even advertises the Buck Diamondback as "Made in U.S.A."
There are going to be alot of people buying a Buck knife during this holiday season, and I think that alot are going to be disappointed to see either "China" or "Taiwan" stamped into the blade, when Buck has such a history of being 'Made In America.' I wish that we could turn back the tide and let Buck Knives charge what they need to, for quality-made American knives, so that none have to be produced overseas, but I worry that cheap prices, rather than great quality from an outstanding manufacturer, is becoming the predominate determining factor.
GeoThorn
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- Dec 4, 2004
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I hate to see anything that is made with pride here go overseas wherever. 
I know that people dont care as much as they used too, which to me is sad. I dont want buck to look as bad as HD does. And I certinaly dont like the fact the China Mart may be the leading the cause on this. Why does Target (French owned company) proudly display products made in the US while China Mart does not...
I know its not my company, I am only a consumer, CJ and Chuck seem like great people, in the end it is there decision. I just lost my job because the company I worked for made "BAD" decisions and went bankrupt.
Steve
I know that people dont care as much as they used too, which to me is sad. I dont want buck to look as bad as HD does. And I certinaly dont like the fact the China Mart may be the leading the cause on this. Why does Target (French owned company) proudly display products made in the US while China Mart does not...
I know its not my company, I am only a consumer, CJ and Chuck seem like great people, in the end it is there decision. I just lost my job because the company I worked for made "BAD" decisions and went bankrupt.
Steve
Every Offshore knife comes through my QA dept and is held to the same high standards that we hold our own production. We work proactivly directly with our factories to teach them how to make our knives. We do everything possible to ensure that no matter what the country of Origen, you will get a great product.
Jeff Hubbard
QA Supervisor
Jeff Hubbard
QA Supervisor
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fashionbiff said:
I just wanted to clarify this after reading J Hubbard's post. I did not mean to imply that buck would hit the skids and close. I just feel that "made not in the usa" stamped on a blade is going turn people off. And being honest it does not give me good feeling. But thats me, I dont see a problem with display boxes and sheaths but the knife better be made here. JMO
ALL my knives are made in the USA. That is the way I like it. I dont buy "foreign" made knives of any type, period. As for Buck making some overseas, I dont have a problem with it, I just wont buy the foreign made ones. I would however, like to see Buck make it more apparent which models are made here and which in Taiwan. Benchmade has a "Red Label" line which are imported. Buck should do something similar.
Gypsy9590 hit the nail right on the head. People who are willing to pay extra for "American Made" seem to be the minority.
Id also like to see a trend of using more American steel to make the blades.
Gypsy9590 hit the nail right on the head. People who are willing to pay extra for "American Made" seem to be the minority.
Id also like to see a trend of using more American steel to make the blades.
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2003
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I like the idea of listing in the catalog where they are made. I will pass it along.
guy g
Gold Member
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- Oct 22, 2000
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I was kinda the same way until I got my first Diamondback. The 'taiwan' on the blade stopped me short. But both knives have worked well. Despite Josh's claims I can say with confidence the foriegn made knives do not have the same heat treat as the EL Cajon made.The Mentors take and hold a better edge. I have also liked good Japanese made knives and tried these without problem.
The DB's make a good knife for a younger person to learn knifecraft.
The DB's make a good knife for a younger person to learn knifecraft.
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- Mar 7, 2002
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=======================================GC said:
*Victorinox Executive...should qualify...carry everyday for the handy tools and the keyring but I frequently lament the fact that the blades don't hold an edge. I don't even consider it a "real knife".
Maybe it's just me, but I don't think German-made or even Japan-made knives carry the same "stigma" as Tiawan, China, or Pakistan but this could change over time -- Many of us remember a time we wouldn't consider driving a car made overseas!! (Many still don't, but look at what's on the highways in the U.S.A.)
My main complaint to Buck here in the Forum is not indicating in the Catalog which ones are Imported so the buyer is informed. I think it only fair they do that and expect they will in the future.
Nothing holds an edge like a Buck !!!!
Since I'm a relative knife novice, my curiosity often gets the better of me. Does a knife's inability to hold an edge mean that there has been a lesser heat treatment done upon that blade, than another?guy g said:
Maybe one thing that isn't checked in the QA department is the heat treatment of imported Buck Knives? I mean, there's only so much that a Quality Assurance Department can check, you know? I can't see them taking every imported knife out of it's packaging and checking every knife's Rockwell hardness. That's something that probably occurs along the line in the production process at the El Cajon facility, and soon in Post Falls, but maybe not in Taiwan.J Hubbard said:
I'm still glad that I bought a couple of the "Made in Taiwan" Diamondbacks, because, being a relative knive novice, I can use as much practise as possible in 'knifecraft.' Nothing like an easily dulled knife to more often practise one's sharpening technique.
"Inspected in America" unfortunately isn't "Made in America."
GeoThorn
guy g
Gold Member
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Geothorn. good question... there are several factoers involved in edge holding. Steel, edge geometry, and heat treating to start. Buck has said the blades are all 420HC. The blades are also ground with the Edge 2000, so the only thing left is the heat treating process.
This may be a stretch, but it is based on my actual experiences with these knives doing similar tasks.
And I'm sure they check the numbers on the heat treat as part of QC, so there may be some factor in this we are not seeing.
All in all it is a suprise to us that Buck is out sourcing knives, but the price consumers are eating them up. If buck had been doing this for many models over a few years, we would be used to it.
Gotta go to Texas, be back monday night.
This may be a stretch, but it is based on my actual experiences with these knives doing similar tasks.
And I'm sure they check the numbers on the heat treat as part of QC, so there may be some factor in this we are not seeing.
All in all it is a suprise to us that Buck is out sourcing knives, but the price consumers are eating them up. If buck had been doing this for many models over a few years, we would be used to it.
Gotta go to Texas, be back monday night.
I don't have a problem with imported knives. Especially if Buck stands behind them.
But I wish all knife catalogs openly stated where each model is made. Overlooking this issue has the potential to create many suprised and disappointed customers. It's not the issue of importing or sub-contracting knives, it's a PR issue. Buyers aren't going to get what they expected, and many aren't going to like it.
Buck should have done more too to distinguish their American knives from the imports. The best solution would be a new sub-brand name, BuckMade, Buck International, or something like that for the imports. Gerber used "Gerber International" for some contracted knives, and Puma has the "Puma IP" brand for non-German knives.
I'd like to add Japan to someone else's list of countries that make good-quality knives. AG Russell has many of his knives made in Japan, and the quality is excellent. Soque River was a short-lived knive company from Japan - excellent stuff. Gerber had many knives made in Japan, including the Silver Knight line. Great little knives.
Best Wishes,
Bob
OT, motorcycles
Automobile companies have to provide a country of origin spec sheet on every car, showing the percentages of parts from each country. Motorcycle manufacturers do not, so it's difficult to say exactly how much of a Harley Davidson or Honda is actually from the US. Some people say Honda motorcycles built at the American plant have more US-made parts than Harley Davidson, others say that's crap. But it is a fact that no major motorcycle brand meets the legal requirements to label their products "Made in the USA."
I propose a new compromise label for American-made motorcycles, "Quality Imported Parts Proudly Snapped Together In the USA."
But I wish all knife catalogs openly stated where each model is made. Overlooking this issue has the potential to create many suprised and disappointed customers. It's not the issue of importing or sub-contracting knives, it's a PR issue. Buyers aren't going to get what they expected, and many aren't going to like it.
Buck should have done more too to distinguish their American knives from the imports. The best solution would be a new sub-brand name, BuckMade, Buck International, or something like that for the imports. Gerber used "Gerber International" for some contracted knives, and Puma has the "Puma IP" brand for non-German knives.
I'd like to add Japan to someone else's list of countries that make good-quality knives. AG Russell has many of his knives made in Japan, and the quality is excellent. Soque River was a short-lived knive company from Japan - excellent stuff. Gerber had many knives made in Japan, including the Silver Knight line. Great little knives.
Best Wishes,
Bob
OT, motorcycles
Automobile companies have to provide a country of origin spec sheet on every car, showing the percentages of parts from each country. Motorcycle manufacturers do not, so it's difficult to say exactly how much of a Harley Davidson or Honda is actually from the US. Some people say Honda motorcycles built at the American plant have more US-made parts than Harley Davidson, others say that's crap. But it is a fact that no major motorcycle brand meets the legal requirements to label their products "Made in the USA."
I propose a new compromise label for American-made motorcycles, "Quality Imported Parts Proudly Snapped Together In the USA."
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- 305
guy g said:
I never claimed they had the same heat treat.
I work in a plant where we make products for the USA. Want to see our bosses shite themselves tell them the QA guys from the states are coming from an Audit! What we make for the US is validated by the FDA and they are sticklers!
(We use another word for them, damn are they strict)
If it's being sold to US Citizens it had better be top class or we won't be selling there ever again!
At a guess Buck are no less strict,and probably more so as they care about what they make and sell. From what I've seen the FDA are doing a job and working for Buck may be a vocation!
If Joe and the boys stand over Taiwanese steel, then that's good enough for me! American or foreign,if it's Buck it is quality you can trust in my experience!
(We use another word for them, damn are they strict)
If it's being sold to US Citizens it had better be top class or we won't be selling there ever again!
At a guess Buck are no less strict,and probably more so as they care about what they make and sell. From what I've seen the FDA are doing a job and working for Buck may be a vocation!
If Joe and the boys stand over Taiwanese steel, then that's good enough for me! American or foreign,if it's Buck it is quality you can trust in my experience!