I have a Buck 303 that is sharpened on one side of the blade only. Several years ago I bought a 303 in a bubble pack, couldn't find any boxed knives at the time, and didn't realize until after I had opened it and used it that it was made in China. Is it possible that the China made knives might be sharpened on one side or is that a grind not listed?
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Buck's grinds
- Thread starter David Martin
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David Martin
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Good points Doc & Joe. Thank you for these insights.
Joe N. Welcome. I've not heard of that grind occurring. There are some Buck collectors here with vast experience with those models and I'll direct their attention toward your comment. Thanks, DM
Joe N. Welcome. I've not heard of that grind occurring. There are some Buck collectors here with vast experience with those models and I'll direct their attention toward your comment. Thanks, DM
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David,
Thank you for this thread.
Cate
Thank you for this thread.
Cate
David Martin
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Cate, thanks for this. I try to think up topics for discussion. Especially during our 'winter hours'. Sometimes I think I bomb out and other times interest is shown. So, your comment helps. DM
P.S.
Snowing here.
P.S.
Snowing here.
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David,
You're welcome.
My husband and I may add a few more Buck fixed blade knives to the one list with our Buck kitchen knives.
The other night, it got below zero again.
I am thankful for a warm house, good food, etc.
Take care.
Cate
David Martin
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That's cold. I don't think I'd fair well living in a tent in that weather. So, I'm thankful too. DM
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Doc T,
You have a heat wave!
Side note here.
My husband went to the range on his day off. I was going to go with him but decided not to since my arthritis was a pain in the butt, eerrr, hands!
Anyway, he cleaned his carry gun. He cleaned his bedside gun.
He shot and it was so cold that when he went to pick up his BRASS out of the snow, it was stuck pretty HARD in it. So he put his leather gloves on to pick it all up.
He was planning on shooting about 200 rounds and he only shot about 25 rounds on that day. And he usually can take ice cold weather since he is part 'polar bear'.
The range is not that far from our house in town but it was about 10 degrees colder out there.
http://www.wmfg.org/
http://www.wmfga.org/
I was kind of shocked that he decided to come home early after shooting so little. But I know how he is about his quality brass. The handguns performed flawlessly. He shot well as usual. He said that he only saw about 3 people out there on the ice and crusty snow.
Back to knives...
Cate
You have a heat wave!
Side note here.
My husband went to the range on his day off. I was going to go with him but decided not to since my arthritis was a pain in the butt, eerrr, hands!
Anyway, he cleaned his carry gun. He cleaned his bedside gun.
He shot and it was so cold that when he went to pick up his BRASS out of the snow, it was stuck pretty HARD in it. So he put his leather gloves on to pick it all up.
He was planning on shooting about 200 rounds and he only shot about 25 rounds on that day. And he usually can take ice cold weather since he is part 'polar bear'.
The range is not that far from our house in town but it was about 10 degrees colder out there.
http://www.wmfg.org/
http://www.wmfga.org/
I was kind of shocked that he decided to come home early after shooting so little. But I know how he is about his quality brass. The handguns performed flawlessly. He shot well as usual. He said that he only saw about 3 people out there on the ice and crusty snow.
Back to knives...
Cate
David,
Thanks again for starting this thread. In the convex family of grinds, I distinguish between 3 variants. The first is the fully convex grind, usually but not always down to a zero edge. This would be like your diagram F. Opinels and most Bark Rivers would examples of this type of grind.
At the other extreme, is the so-called Scandi grind in which there is a sharp, crisp transition to the angled primary bevel and the primary bevel extends to the apex with no micro bevel. The Mora knives are an example of this. The idea being that you sharpen them by putting the entire flat bevel on the stone, almost like a double sided chisel.
In between is what I call a sabre grind, although I readily admit that this may not be the right or common usage. Like the scandi grind, there is a definite transition or shoulder to the grind. Much different than the continious curve of a pure convex grind. But, while definite, the transition is rounded or convexed. In this way, I see this as a convexed scandi or perhaps as a convex grind with a definite shoulder.
Here is my grandfathers unbranded fixed blade dated to the late 50s, in all probabily an import from Japan. You can see the shoulder line pretty clearly but it is also very much rounded and not to be confused with a pure scandi grind like you will find on a Mora.
Grandpas Knife by Pinnah, on Flickr
I've tried in vain to find pictures of the earliest Buck fixed blades that I've seen here on this forum. But the ones I recall seeing remind me of my Grandfather's knife, as well as older American fixed blades from the 70s, 60s and 50s like those from Schrade-Walden, Marbles and Western.
BF member Thomas Linton posts regularly to the Traditional forum and he argues quite persuasively that the current "Scandi" grind (like you see on Moras) is a result of Mora and others trying to meet the misguided perspectives of British consumers. Thomas argues that actual traditional Scandanavian knives tend to be more what I'm referring to as as (convexed) sabre grind with a well rounded transition that develops naturally when you work the blade on the stone.
I find a (convexed) sabre grind to be wonderful for working wood. Yes, they split effectively (the grind is closely related to traditional splitting froes) but more importantly, they make good controlled shavings, as the wider, rounded apes allows for easy control of the cutting angle in the wood (for me, anyway). They also slice better than a pure scandi since they lack that abrupt sharp and friction producing shoulder.
I would be interesting to see Buck revive the old grinds, IMO. And made in the US.
Thanks again for starting this thread. In the convex family of grinds, I distinguish between 3 variants. The first is the fully convex grind, usually but not always down to a zero edge. This would be like your diagram F. Opinels and most Bark Rivers would examples of this type of grind.
At the other extreme, is the so-called Scandi grind in which there is a sharp, crisp transition to the angled primary bevel and the primary bevel extends to the apex with no micro bevel. The Mora knives are an example of this. The idea being that you sharpen them by putting the entire flat bevel on the stone, almost like a double sided chisel.
In between is what I call a sabre grind, although I readily admit that this may not be the right or common usage. Like the scandi grind, there is a definite transition or shoulder to the grind. Much different than the continious curve of a pure convex grind. But, while definite, the transition is rounded or convexed. In this way, I see this as a convexed scandi or perhaps as a convex grind with a definite shoulder.
Here is my grandfathers unbranded fixed blade dated to the late 50s, in all probabily an import from Japan. You can see the shoulder line pretty clearly but it is also very much rounded and not to be confused with a pure scandi grind like you will find on a Mora.
Grandpas Knife by Pinnah, on FlickrI've tried in vain to find pictures of the earliest Buck fixed blades that I've seen here on this forum. But the ones I recall seeing remind me of my Grandfather's knife, as well as older American fixed blades from the 70s, 60s and 50s like those from Schrade-Walden, Marbles and Western.
BF member Thomas Linton posts regularly to the Traditional forum and he argues quite persuasively that the current "Scandi" grind (like you see on Moras) is a result of Mora and others trying to meet the misguided perspectives of British consumers. Thomas argues that actual traditional Scandanavian knives tend to be more what I'm referring to as as (convexed) sabre grind with a well rounded transition that develops naturally when you work the blade on the stone.
I find a (convexed) sabre grind to be wonderful for working wood. Yes, they split effectively (the grind is closely related to traditional splitting froes) but more importantly, they make good controlled shavings, as the wider, rounded apes allows for easy control of the cutting angle in the wood (for me, anyway). They also slice better than a pure scandi since they lack that abrupt sharp and friction producing shoulder.
I would be interesting to see Buck revive the old grinds, IMO. And made in the US.
David Martin
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That looks just like a Harry Morseth knife. Which is a early custom knife maker of the 1930's. He and Webster Marble's were making knives at the same time (cira 1905). Both used similar grinds. Harry's genius was the safety sheath and use of laminated steel. Marble's was the safety axe, match safe, and many more inventions. I think one influenced the other to some degree. When I look at their grinds I scratch my head thinking, 'how could that work'. I've used a 1950's Marble's on a fat hog and it was a effort to make it work. Where as the full flat grind and full hollow grind cut circles around the thick convex edge. Even Buck's edge 2000 works good. It's evident those early makers were concerned about preventing edge damage from the rigors of outdoor use. Should they be making knives today they would have a good following of malleters. But skinners shapes changes for the better in the 70's. Those earlier knives probably could shave wood fine. DM
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David Martin
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The early knives of the 30's-50's of various makers look a lot alike with thick spines, straight sides all the way down to a 1/4" convex bevel forming the edge. Were in vogue for that era. Other than a little difference in the Fuller groove they look much alike. I have Kbar, Pal, Marbles, and others. Their grinds are close. I think that was the accepted style for a knife. DM
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Bob Loveless was making knives for Abercrombie & Fitch in 1954 and a few years later brought out a full hollow ground blade. Creating much talk in the knife world. Some against it. So, history on grinds in the making, met with resistance. I bet Al Buck was watching these developments. Your welcome, DM
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I should never make statements based on my memory. I found my old knife, a 303 from 1989, and it is actually a flat grind. If you look down on the spine of the knife, the left side is rounded toward the tip but the right side is a sharp angle making that side seem flat. After a close inspection both sides have the same taper but the rounding on the right side, at least to me, gives the appearance of an angle in relation to the spine. The sharp edge on the right side, again to me, makes that side seem flat or 90 degrees to the spine. I don't know if the attached picture will show what I am talking about or not.
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Kinda OT - but I've noticed that swedge (correct?) on mine as well and assume it's for liner rub prevention? Since it's on the nail nick side, can't be for rub on the other blades. And I just looked at 98 303 I had laying on the dresser and it's the same. And this is with the new 3 spring design that alleviated the krinking needed to fit three blades.
Sorry for the hijack David. Back to regular programming.
Sorry for the hijack David. Back to regular programming.
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Swedges are standard blade grindings. Or stampings how ever they were formed. They are found on 300 series most often in the bigger and older models. The blade and grind people can discuss there purpose, I just always assumed they assisted in puncturing something with the tip of the blade. You do know, knives can be used to stab something that's not a grizzly or man. I have always found the dangerous thick skinned tomato to be a fearsome challenge....ha
300
300
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So 300 - you're saying in this instance it's just the aesthetics Buck went with for their blade design.
Like we kinda touched on earlier in this thread, sometimes one may not take into consideration that in the times these knives were first designed and made, the knife role was likely much more utilitarian and used for more of your day to day tasks/living that we may not today use a knife for. If that makes sense. So design was more task driven, than eye appeal as perhaps a bit more now.
Life was harder and people used more tools in their daily routine than now, where much of what we do now is automated or some kind of technology does it for us. But given how far we have come, why do I always still manage to cut myself all the time. Lol. I used to love listening to my Grandpa telling tales of life on the farm, plowing behind two mules and still be able to roll a cigarette with one hand so he didn't have to stop. Or my mother talking about saving the radio battery for two days so she could listen to Lone Ranger in Saturday morning.
But I'm afraid I've really went off topic and into the ditch on this one. I blame the moderator for this time though.
Like we kinda touched on earlier in this thread, sometimes one may not take into consideration that in the times these knives were first designed and made, the knife role was likely much more utilitarian and used for more of your day to day tasks/living that we may not today use a knife for. If that makes sense.
So design was more task driven, than eye appeal as perhaps a bit more now.Life was harder and people used more tools in their daily routine than now, where much of what we do now is automated or some kind of technology does it for us. But given how far we have come, why do I always still manage to cut myself all the time. Lol. I used to love listening to my Grandpa telling tales of life on the farm, plowing behind two mules and still be able to roll a cigarette with one hand so he didn't have to stop. Or my mother talking about saving the radio battery for two days so she could listen to Lone Ranger in Saturday morning.
But I'm afraid I've really went off topic and into the ditch on this one. I blame the moderator for this time though.
I find that cutting performance depends on what's being cut. My grandfather's knife and the old Marble's you refer to have grinds that are similar to traditional Scandanavian blades (as Thomas Linton has shown on the traditional forum) and that grind is convexed sabre grind, not a pure so-called Scandi grind (like on a new Mora). I agree, these don't slice as well as full flat and they don't cut meat as well as a hollow grind. But I find they work wood much, much better and by this I mean making controlled shavings not battoning. (I love your term "malleting" by the way. Hilarious.)
I've done a fair bit of reading on the history of Nordic skiing in the US. It grew up around lumbering communities in the northeast and northern Midwest where Scandinavian immigrants worked. Given that Marbles is from the northern Midwest and given that the grind used on the early Marbles were the same as traditional Scandanavian knives, I wonder if there was a direct connection. I'm speculating.
Regardless, the convexed sabre grind is an excellent wood working grind.
David, this is awesome. I've been wondering how the hollow grind become so popular. This is so incredibly helpful.
Feeding this into Google led me to a thread on Knifeforums with an interesting comment from Mike Stewart, owner of Bark River Knives.
http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/printpost.php?tid/868338/
I actually think this is a bit overstated. I like hollow grinds just a tick more for meat. They're very easy to touch up due to the thinness behind the edge.
Still, the Stewart's claim about Loveless using a hollow grind just for looks in order to sell more knives is interesting. It suggests that fashion drives design as much or more than function.
I would think the US market has room for US made convexed sabre grind (or convexed grind) in the spirit of the old Marbles and current Bark Rivers, only at a lower price point. I think it would be excellent to see Buck come out with convexed sabre ground versions of some of their 100 series knives. Maybe call them the heritage versions, since they would be reminiscent of the originals.
Anyway, thanks for the great thread.