Bucks of China

http://web.archive.org/web/20070818182123/www.buckknives.com/manufacturing.php

"All knives are manufactured to Buck's exacting specifications. As we have expanded our domestic manufacturing capabilities, we have also sought foreign manufacturing assistance with some product models. This enables us to maintain a high level of production, cost efficiencies, broad product selection and pricing, and steady delivery with our active product line and also devote appropriate resources to new product development. Each knife model has an individual page on our web site, where you can see an image of the knife and read about its features. An American flag signifies that the knife is manufactured domestically."
Thank you for locating that; clearly you are correct and an explanation was provided on the old website. I can understand why I missed it (seeking information about products, I foolishly looked in the "Product" section) but don't understand why Google didn't locate it. I probably made some type of mistake in configuring the search.

It's printed right on all packaging, clear as day. "If" this is such an important issue to you, why would you not look for it?
Country of origin is not "printed on all packaging, clear as day." Country of origin is printed on the bottom of the box. Country of origin is not noted on the "Product Warranty Registration." Country of origin is not noted on the plastic bag containing the knife. And really, it shouldn't be--there is no need for country of origin to be printed anywhere on the packaging other than the box. Where people can see it without searching.

As I've written before, country of origin was not an issue until quality was. At time of purchase, I had the information I was seeking when I saw the words "BUCK KNIVES." Any reason I might have for skepticism about the quality of knives made in China is due solely to my experience with ChinaBucks.

The price point alone should indicate to any intelligent person, that it's an import.
Price point is not a reliable indication of import or domestic manufacture due to vagaries of the marketplace. A number of people have posted purchases of 110s at prices in the $25-35 range. Last month I saw 309s being sold for $20. I paid around $22 for the 382. This doesn't mean the 110 and 309 are imports, or that the 382 is of domestic production, but rather that where and when you purchase a knife can play a large role in pricing.

OK, that's interesting, because I am actually holding the two knives I used for the photos in that thread right here and now, and you are wrong.

1. "BucK" is the same size on both knives.
2. The model number is LARGER on the Import.
3. "China" on the import is in a LARGER font than the "U.S.A." on the domestic knife. (Wow, they suck at hiding that "China" don't they.

Since the fonts on the imports are larger, there might be your answer?
In an earlier posting, you made the claim, "3. Stamps ALL products with the country of origin, in the same size lettering used for both import and domestic markings." Using as an example photos you posted, I showed this was incorrect. In another example, I wrote that on the knives I measured the size difference was also present but the domestic manufactured knife had larger font. As they were not mentioned in your original claim, I did not address size of "BUCK" font, or the size of font used for the model number.

I suspect that the size of font used has little meaning, and depends more on the vintage of the knife, or which stamps are available when the stamping is designed, or are standard in the factory where the knife is produced. My only concern about font size--and the reason I took the knives in and measured the font--is to disprove the claim made by some that there isn't room to mark import knives in the same manner as domestically-produced knives. If there is room to mark one country of origin, there is room to mark the other, if the manufacturer chose to.

Did you ever establish that the knife you sent in, and repeatedly attempted to hijack other peoples threads about ever made it to Buck? Things do get lost in the mail, last time you mentioned it in the Buck forum, you said you had checked the tracking numbers, what are they?

You don't really expect me to provide that information at the request of someone who repeatedly engages in ad hominem attacks do you?

Per USPS, the knife arrived at Buck. The information was provided to Buck in a letter sent about 8 weeks later asking if it was still there or had been shipped and perhaps lost in the mail, and I have no reason to believe the letter was not received.

Plenty of people get above and beyond from Bucks customer service all the time, whether they are BCCI or not. I just joined last month, so I guess when I sent in a 301 for warranty work in 2005 and got prompt quality service, I knew the secret handshake?
I received excellent service from the customer service department on the knife I sent in back around 1990, and I write that despite the fact that they were unable to repair the knife under warranty. But that was 1990, and 2005, not today. My current experience suggests that customer service of today's BKI is not what it once was.

That's all any of us can do, is speak to our own direct experience. Yours is virtually 100% the opposite of myself and most others who have talked about them here. I've owned and handled literally over 100 models from the import line, and seen maybe 4 or 5 that were bad. For 1 person to have several that were "all" defective, seems statistically unlikely.

I admittedly have a small data set (n=4), with a 75% defect rate; I'm reasonably certain that is a statistical anomoly. Rounding off your numbers, you seem to have a defect rate of probably <4%. I suspect the numbers on a large (>10,000) sample would be even smaller than the rate you found.

None of which invalidates our respective experiences. Statistically-unlikely things happen all the time; in the absence of data from a sample large enough to be generalized, we each tend to give weight to our own experiences.

I guess this is the crux of these type threads that I find so humorous.

Grown adults that purchase a product that in todays market, the price alone should have told any thinking person, that it's an import, or handle it in a store and never bother to look at the packaging to learn something that they claim has great importance to them, and was clearly printed right on it, then proceed to go on a rampage screaming, the manufacturer/retail store/online dealer/boogeyman "deceived" me!!!!!!!

If the issue of where a knife is made is that important to you, then take the time and small amount of effort to find it out before you purchase it. Access to this forum alone was all you needed.

I find the strawman arguments and ad hominem attacks employed by Buck's advocates equally amusing; it seems it would be easier to avoid all the hard feelings (and customers lost to Buck).
 
Using as an example photos you posted, I showed this was incorrect.

Actually no you did not, look at my pictures again.

They show that the "China" stamp is larger than the "U.S.A." stamp


Look at the "CHINA"
Comparison6Sheepsfoot.jpg


Now look at the "U.S.A."
Comparison7Main.jpg


I'm sitting here with both knives again, the "CHINA" is almost twice as big when they are side by side.
 
You don't really expect me to provide that information at the request of someone who repeatedly engages in ad hominem attacks do you?

Nobody has attacked you, try to remain calm please.

It's just simple tracking numbers, what's the danger?
 
Country of origin is not "printed on all packaging, clear as day." Country of origin is printed on the bottom of the box.

It is printed on the packaging of every single imported Buck knife, either on the bar code label for boxes, or the product insert for clamshell packages.

Wasn't hard to find at all.
 
In post #28 in this thread, you wrote:
3. Stamps ALL products with the country of origin, in the same size lettering used for both import and domestic markings.
This was your claim, not mine. I referenced your photos in another thread to show this was incorrect, and my own measurements of font on two Buck slipjoints which also showed a difference in size, with the smaller font being found on the import. In response you wrote:
OK, that's interesting, because I am actually holding the two knives I used for the photos in that thread right here and now, and you are wrong.

1. "BucK" is the same size on both knives.
2. The model number is LARGER on the Import.
3. "China" on the import is in a LARGER font than the "U.S.A." on the domestic knife. (Wow, they suck at hiding that "China" don't they.
I made no claims about the size of the "BUCK" stamping. I made no claims about the size of the model number stamping. I made no claims that Buck was "hiding that China." I simply showed that you were incorrect in asserting that Buck used the same size lettering for both import and domestic models. I also commented on what I found when I actually measured the font size on a 301 and a 382. I further commented that if Buck used the same size font on both models, they could mark them in the same way (i.e., all marks on the same blade) unless there is some other reason to not do so.

And now you once again claim I was wrong. While I am willing to continue the discussion, and am more than willing to be shown that I am wrong (I like learning, even from my mistakes), I'm not sure in which statement you are claiming I was incorrect.

Are you returning to your earlier assertion that Buck "Stamps ALL products with the country of origin, in the same size lettering used for both import and domestic markings"?

Are you claiming to have measured the font on the same knives I measured, and to have different results?

Or are you now claiming that it would not be possible for Buck to use the same size font and mark imported and domestic knives in the same manner?
 
Are you claiming to have measured the font on the same knives I measured, and to have different results?

OK, just so it's perfectly clear.

I was initially wrong when I thought they were the same size, when I examined them closer today, I found that the "CHINA" on the imports is in fact larger than the "U.S.A." on the domestic knives. Not smaller as you claimed.

And yes, I checked not only 301's against 371's, but several domestic models against several imported models, including a 382.

The "CHINA" stamp is larger in every case.
 
EDIT:That last one was a little to snarky on my part, so I'm gonna chill.

I guess we just need to agree to disagree on this one Cup'.
 
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Looking the knife over the fit and finish are fine opens smooth all in all for the money I am happy but just don't care to the one word (China.) I would rather pay the extra frieght and get something made in America by Americans.

I'm the same way. I trust that if Buck says their China-made knives are of Buck quality, they're of Buck quality. And I trust that Buck will honor their warranty on their Chinese knives as with on any other Buck knife. And I know these do get some good reviews here on the forums. But I'm just not going to buy a Buck knife that says "China" on it. Ever. He11, everything else in my world says China on it, leave my pocketknife alone! :grumpy:
 
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