Building a vibratory tumbler... (nope, probably buying one instead)

PT Doc said:
I meant after the customer received it. I think there are a lot of green scotch brite pads on sponges and that at least leaves consistent scratches. you might want to see hour the scotch brite effects the finished product. it would be weird to have a kitchen knife that congress with a warning to not use a certain sponge that is in many kitchens.
Click to expand...

Hey mate!
I think a satin finish would show scratches from a scotchbrite a LOT more than a stonewash finish would. The idea of the stonewash finish is to really be able to hide minor scratches and such, so I think it should be fine.

Bear in mind that's all supposition for the moment as I haven't actually tested a blade with that finish yet.
-Aaron
 
So I've had a poll posted in the general knife forum asking about stonewashed kitchen blades for over 12 hours now. I've had 20 respondents, around 65 percent say they'd buy a kitchen knife with a stonewash finish. I also chatted with a few friends who are (or have been) professional cooks/chefs and they all said they liked the look of a finer stonewash, so I think it's a go on the kitchen knife front.

With that in mind I'll be buying a used Mr Deburr unit directly from C&M topline, a 3 cubic foot model along with full charges of 3 different types of media: plastic (for finishing aluminum), ceramic w/ abrasive (for finishing steel) and porcelain (for polishing steel). The whole thing ain't cheap, but I think it's likely the most future-proof way of proceeding!

I'll likely have to strip the crappy laminate flooring out of my workshop in order to be able to mount it right to the cement, but that was something I was going to have to do anyway at some point!

Thanks to everyone for the advice and feedback, it's greatly appreciated! Looking forward to getting the machine!
 
aarongough said:
... I'll be buying a used Mr Deburr unit directly from C&M topline, a 3 cubic foot model along with full charges of 3 different types of media: plastic (for finishing aluminum), ceramic w/ abrasive (for finishing steel) and porcelain (for polishing steel).
Click to expand...

Good luck! Let us know how it works.
 
Frank Niro said:
I certainly believe you are going the right way in buying the unit .Frank
Click to expand...

Good to hear! Thanks Frank.

P.Brewster said:
Good luck! Let us know how it works.
Click to expand...

Certainly will do! Will post photos and such too as I go through the process of working out best to use it.

629hugo said:
Aaron--this is what the pros use. I have used them in some of the machinery I design as an engineer. There are several versions of oscillation mounts from lovejoy/rosta. You can buy them from Motion industries. If you find the right ones they should run about $60 per mount.

http://www.lovejoy-inc.com/products/rubber-suspension/anti-vibration-mounts.aspx
Click to expand...

I was just going to use hockey pucks :) Those look much more serious! I will have a look through their stuff, thanks!
 
Frank Niro said:
I certainly believe you are going the right way in buying the unit .Frank
Click to expand...

Good to hear! Thanks Frank.

P.Brewster said:
Good luck! Let us know how it works.
Click to expand...

Certainly will do! Will post photos and such too as I go through the process of working out best to use it.

629hugo said:
Aaron--this is what the pros use. I have used them in some of the machinery I design as an engineer. There are several versions of oscillation mounts from lovejoy/rosta. You can buy them from Motion industries. If you find the right ones they should run about $60 per mount.

http://www.lovejoy-inc.com/products/rubber-suspension/anti-vibration-mounts.aspx
Click to expand...

I was just going to use hockey pucks :) Those look much more serious! I will have a look through their stuff, thanks!
 
BenR.T. said:
You might check these out Aaaron, I know several knifemakers that use them and like them. It will probably be the one I get, when I get a bigger/better one.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200439935_200439935
Click to expand...

Hmm, yeah I remember seeing those a while back but I had forgotten about them! That size is actually pretty much perfect, whereas the machine from C&M would definitely be larger than I'd need...

That said the lack of reviews on the machine, and fact it's made in china doesn't fill me with reassurance. I really appreciate the link to that as it's definitely a good option! I will have a think about it tonight.

I'm trying really hard to do the whole 'buy once, cry once' thing recently, as opposed to buying less expensive tools. I've had that bite me a few times so now I'm trying to buy stuff as though I'll never be able to buy again, not sure if that makes sense.
 
aarongough said:
I'm trying really hard to do the whole 'buy once, cry once' thing recently, as opposed to buying less expensive tools. I've had that bite me a few times so now I'm trying to buy stuff as though I'll never be able to buy again, not sure if that makes sense.
Click to expand...

That makes perfect sense. I think most guys go through it at some point or another. I'm in the process of replacing a lot of my hand tools with pro quality gear.

The hard part is knowing what is better than inexpensive. I've found that "you get what you pay for" isn't often enough the case to even utter the saying. That's why threads like these are so valuable.
 
PT Doc said:
I meant after the customer received it. I think there are a lot of green scotch brite pads on sponges and that at least leaves consistent scratches. you might want to see hour the scotch brite effects the finished product. it would be weird to have a kitchen knife that congress with a warning to not use a certain sponge that is in many kitchens.
Click to expand...

That's a really interesting point... I'm currently favoring fairly basic hand-satin finishes (600 grit) on kitchen knives, partly because it's just a nice-looking and "custom" looking way to finish a working knife, but specifically because if you wipe them clean length-wise with a common "scrubby pad", it doesn't foul up the looks too much... any new scratches from the pad tend to blend right in.

Belt finishes are obviously easier for us to make, but boy howdy... they start looking real bad real fast once you get to scouring them clean after letting foodstuffs dry on the surface overnight... which is going to happen, no matter how much we advise against it. I'm very interested to see how tumbled finishes stand up to that kind of cleaning.

If a knife doesn't fit the clients' existing habits, skills and equipment for maintaining it, sooner or later problems will arise... probably sooner. Anticipating that is a very important part of our job.

Fascinating thread, gentlemen. :thumbup:
 
Last edited:
Tumbled finish look great.

But you better have all the scratches out of that blade. Some think using a tumbled finish will be a good way to shortcut removing a scratches....it is not.

What you will get is one or two scratches on a nicely tumbled finished blade that will not come out with tumbling....so you get to start all over again and take it back to the grinder to remove a couple of scratches...then back into the tumbler.

For a knife blade be sure it is totally pristine and then tumble. If you try to use tumbling as a short cut you will find out it will take you much longer
 
AVigil said:
Tumbled finish look great.

But you better have all the scratches out of that blade. Some think using a tumbled finish will be a good way to shortcut removing a scratches....it is not.

What you will get is one or two scratches on a nicely tumbled finished blade that will not come out with tumbling....so you get to start all over again and take it back to the grinder to remove a couple of scratches...then back into the tumbler.

For a knife blade be sure it is totally pristine and then tumble. If you try to use tumbling as a short cut you will find out it will take you much longer
Click to expand...

That's fine, I'm still planning to hand-finish before tumbling, I just imagine that I won't have to go to such a high grit, 220 or 400 should be fine from what I've read.

For me it's really not about getting a shortcut, If it works out to be the same amount of time, but I get a finish that wears better for my customers then that's a win for me! If it's faster then that's a bonus, but overall I'm fairly happy with the majority of my process as it stands.
 
Omega Leather Works said:
That makes perfect sense. I think most guys go through it at some point or another. I'm in the process of replacing a lot of my hand tools with pro quality gear.

The hard part is knowing what is better than inexpensive. I've found that "you get what you pay for" isn't often enough the case to even utter the saying. That's why threads like these are so valuable.
Click to expand...

Yeah, sometimes knowing whether the money will be well spent is very hard without actually buying the thing... My lathe and mill were a good case of this, love the mill, really hate the lathe.

james terrio said:
That's a really interesting point... I'm currently favoring fairly basic hand-satin finishes (600 grit) on kitchen knives, partly because it's just a nice-looking and "custom" looking way to finish a working knife, but specifically because if you wipe them clean length-wise with a common "scrubby pad", it doesn't foul up the looks too much... any new scratches from the pad tend to blend right in.

Belt finishes are obviously easier for us to make, but boy howdy... they start looking real bad real fast once you get to scouring them clean after letting foodstuffs dry on the surface overnight... which is going to happen, no matter how much we advise against it. I'm very interested to see how tumbled finishes stand up to that kind of cleaning.

If a knife doesn't fit the clients' existing habits, skills and equipment for maintaining it, sooner or later problems will arise... probably sooner. Anticipating that is a very important part of our job.

Fascinating thread, gentlemen. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

I hadn't quite thought about it that way! I will make sure to tumble one for use in my kitchen and we'll see how it goes!
 
Just an additional comment.

Finishing and burnishing media can be changed to get a progressively finer finish. Depending on the media type and the item being tumbled, it can end up a bright and smooth finish. My small magnetic pin tumbler leaves a bright polished finish on smaller parts.

The magnetic tumblers used to be very expensive, but import units have dropped the price a lot. A 6" bowl size ( would do most folder blades) is under $400 now. The larger 10-12" models are below $800.

Of course there are still industrial units;
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MAGNETIC-TU...521?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c7c9418f1
Same size in a less industrial model;
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-MAGNETI...989?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51b9128a4d
or...get completely insane;
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Earth-Chain...994?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53f5cf9e6a

Note - eBay links are for example of types of tumblers.
 
bladsmth said:
Just an additional comment.

Finishing and burnishing media can be changed to get a progressively finer finish. Depending on the media type and the item being tumbled, it can end up a bright and smooth finish. My small magnetic pin tumbler leaves a bright polished finish on smaller parts.

The magnetic tumblers used to be very expensive, but import units have dropped the price a lot. A 6" bowl size ( would do most folder blades) is under $400 now. The larger 10-12" models are below $800.

Of course there are still industrial units;
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MAGNETIC-TU...521?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c7c9418f1
Same size in a less industrial model;
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-MAGNETI...989?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51b9128a4d
or...get completely insane;
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Earth-Chain...994?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53f5cf9e6a

Note - eBay links are for example of types of tumblers.
Click to expand...

Those look pretty fancy!

I actually changed which media I decided to buy. Originally I was going to get some pastic media in addition to the ceramic, but I decided to drop the pastic in exchange for another type of Ceramic media. The stuff I ended up getting should give me a good range of options in terms of different finishes I can apply, from the normal 'galvanized' looking stonewash, to a consistent matte finish, to a burnished finish.

Here's what I'm getting:

150lb of 7/8x3/8" Ceramic Angle Cut Tri-Star, SF grade (coarsest)
150lb of 3/8x3/8" Ceramic Angle Cut Triangle, M grade (middle)
160lb of 3/16x3/8" Porcelain Angle-Cut Cylinder, burnishing grade (finest, no abrasive)

That lot should give me quite a range of options in terms of final finishes I think!
 
Last edited:
SF is second to coarsest. In some sizes they have DF. When you're trying to get an anti glare finish (not shiny) on steels like D2 and Elmax that is HRC 60+ and ~15% carbide by volume you need very aggressive media or it just rubs (washes) the corners off.

I don't think you're going to use the burnishing grade very much. Most of the materials you're working with will burnish (and shine up) pretty well with the middle grade.

I use DF 90% of the time and occasionally dope it with silicon carbide grit to get a wiggle on.


edit to add:

Depending on your steel you can lace your fluids to force a patina.

You have to use fluids to keep your media clean or it won't cut right. I used to use old coolant from my sump but I went ahead and got their soap and it works well.

If your bowl doesn't have a drain, add one.
 
Last edited:
Nathan the Machinist said:
SF is second to coarsest. In some sizes they have DF. When you're trying to get an anti glare finish (not shiny) on steels like D2 and Elmax that is HRC 60+ and ~15% carbide by volume you need very aggressive media or it just rubs (washes) the corners off.

I don't think you're going to use the burnishing grade very much. Most of the materials you're working with will burnish (and shine up) pretty well with the middle grade.

I use DF 90% of the time and occasionally dope it with silicon carbide grit to get a wiggle on.


edit to add:

Depending on your steel you can lace your fluids to force a patina.

You have to use fluids to keep your media clean or it won't cut right. I used to use old coolant from my sump but I went ahead and got their soap and it works well.

If your bowl doesn't have a drain, add one.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info Nathan! Interesting that you use the coarsest grit so much! I'm very interested to see the matte finish that the 3/8x3/8" M media puts on. I'm hoping that in combination with the burnishing media will be my go-to for smoother finishes on kitchen knives. We'll see.

Funny that you mention lacing the fluids. One of the things I want to try is running vinegar with the compound instead of water in order to darken the finish up a bit. As I understand it you can also make the burnishing media more aggressive by using it in a fluid that's capable of etching the workpiece... The etching works with the smooth media to wear away the surface very finely. Not sure if vinegar will be aggressive enough to darken up A2 though, have never actually tried that as I have Ferric Chloride on hand.

I'm looking forward to trying lots of different things! I have a few hardened reject blades that I'll be finishing again and again in order to see what's possible with the different media. Will definitely be posting photos of the process as I go.
 
Aaron, I wasn't going to say anything But I tried this a few years ago on a couple of kitchen knives and both the chefs who bought them sent them back for a refinish. this was on my 52100 gyoto's. they both said that the satin finish worked better for the reasons stated above. they could clean with a scrubby and it didn't perceptibly change the look of the finish. while on the tumbled finish it did. when I got the knives back they were both nearly satin finished from cleaning.

Just passing along my experience.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top