Bullet proof steel that keeps and edge forever

INFI is super tough, stainless in my experience (satin, I have never had staining or rust issues, even when swimming with it, or canoeing for days when wet). It holds a decent edge for a goodly amount of time. Not the highest edge retention, but does very well in rough use.

There are other steels out there that are great for toughness and have higher edge retnetion than INFI as well, but worse stain resistance.

I am not an expert on super steels, but have used INFI hard with great results.
 
The indeed was to the quest. ;) so from what i have read cpm 3v and infi are the best. Is there anything that beats it for toughness and edge retention?
 
james terrio said:
3V's moderate amount of carbon (.8%) is mostly tied up with the iron and molybdenum and vanadium carbides, leaving much of the 7.5% chromium free to add stain-resistance....
When properly HT'd, 3V has similar "semi-stainless" properties as D2 and also similar wear-resistance... but it's much, much tougher. That extra toughness not only helps the whole blade resist breakage, but increases overall edge-retention by preventing chip-out on thin edges.
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Thanks James!! That explains a lot of what I'd seen.
 
BrandonEDC said:
I was a little dramatic about the requirements. The post is asking for help finding a steel that would pass abuse/destruction tests better then others. And secondly would stay sharp longer then most steels. And again stain resistant is a pluss. I have heard infi os pretty bad ass bit that its not much different from cpm 3v so thats where i am now. What is better?
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The best I've used IMO is CPM-M4. This is a non-stainless steel but it doesn't corrode as easily as some other carbon steels. And it holds an edge VERY well. I normally test edge retention by slicing up pizza boxes. I save a lot of the boxes we get just for edge retention testing. This works well because we like pizza. :) Anyway, I absolutely love M4. It takes a super keen edge and holds it as well as any steel I've used. I'm not super experienced with a lot of different steels though. I believe CPM-M4 is used in cutting and chopping competitions. Another thing to consider is the heat treat. The M4 I've used has been on Spyderco knives. Most traditional pocket knives I've seen don't have the really good blade steels. I like D2 on Queen knives and I just got a GEC with 1095 carbon steel. These two are pretty good but not as good at edge retention as some other steels. Even stainless steels. In my experience Spyderco uses the best blade steels as any production knife company. ZDP-189, S30V, CTS-XHP, VG-10 as well as many others. Some of these (especially ZDP-189) can be hard to sharpen if you don't have a good set of stones. By good I mean they cut well and have been kept in good shape. When I started buying knives with better quality blade steels I found my 20 year old Arkansas stones that I had never cleaned wouldn't sharpen them. Since then I've learned how to maintain good quality sharpening stones. :)

Another important issue regarding edge retention is making sure there are no really small burrs on the edge after sharpening. They can snap off during use leaving the edge cutting poorly. Also, IMO it's not a good idea to use a sharpening steel with trailing strokes with the intention of "straightening" an edge. By this I mean taking an edge that has "rolled" then, using trailing strokes to "straighten" the rolled edge what we really do is straighten folded steel back straight. This makes it VERY weak just like folding a top on a Coke can back and forth until it snaps off. Then during normal cutting use the weakened steel can snap off leaving the edge dull. So without getting long winded about the sharpening job sometimes a "not so great" sharpening job can mean even a good blade steel won't have the edge retention it is capable of. Also, by doing a very good sharpening job you can get better edge retention from the not so super blade steels. So if you get a knife with CPM-M4 with a good heat treat and get the edge sharpened with a keen edge and no burrs you'll have a great cutting knife that will stay sharp longer than most. This is just my opinion though and others may disagree.

Jack
 
I hear someone recently melted down the One Ring of Power, see if you can get a piece of that ;)

But seriously any of the current crop of super steels such as M390, Elmax, CPM s90v, CTS 204P, CPM M4, CPM 3V, CPM 15v, CPM s110v, etc... will probably be the best material you can get ahold of on the current market. My question is are you using steel choice as a reason to narrow down knives to look at? or are you trying to decide what steel to request a custom maker to use?
 
The question is for my knowledge in top steels that meet the requirements listed. For bushcraft knives and survival purposes.
 
Even good ole 52100 works well for a bush/camp/survival knife if it's cared for IMO... :thumbup:

One that I have in 52100; superb design & performance by Waterstoneblades.

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james terrio said:
I've been waiting years for someone to put a 1095 (or any other simple carbon steel) blade against one of mine in 3V for edge-holding, rough use, abuse, and destruction testing. No takers so far. ;)
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I doubt that there will ever be any....
 
Not a single suggestion of M390!? If you want a reasonably attainable steel, then you can get Elmax if you want high toughness, a little less edge retention, and superb corrosion resistance. M390 has slightly higher edge retention with a little less toughness, but similar corrosion resistance.

If you want max toughness, edge retention, and corrosion resistance, you will want to look at adamantium or vibranium, but smelting adamantium is mighty expensive, and since the US does t trade with Wakanda you are pretty much out of luck there. I am an incredible nerd.
 
Snap-off box cutter. Not bulletproof, but they're cheap. Keeps an edge forever because if it goes dull, just snap it off and keep on truckin'...

Seriously, I'd think for what you want INFI or 3V would be the way to go.
 
Check on CPM 4V. Bark River has used it. It has slightly less toughness compared to 3v, but more edge retention. Its like a more tough M4
 
Level III steel plates are around rc 50 or so. Pretty low carbon, low alloy. You might be amazed at the composition of real armor like the navy used on armored ships. Class A, B, and C were used for different ships that had different expectations on what they would be facing.

Modern tank armor like on the Abrahams M1A2/3/SEP, whatever , Challenger 2, Leopard 2A7+, well these are sandwiches of everything from depleted Uranium ( US M1A1/2) to ceramic, tungsten, etc. Even empty spaces and Kevlar.

I guess saying "bullet proof" was more meant like when someone is talking about a transmission or rear end beefed up enough to handle the power output of a new performance engine on a truck you are building than something to actually stop bullets but as I find it an interesting subject I had to get in when people defaulted to "infi", "3V", etc. Great knife steels but not so much good for armor.
 
Ankerson said:
I doubt that there will ever be any....
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;)

At the risk of offending my forging knifemaking brethren... the simple fact is this: they stick with simpler steels not because they make "better" knives, but because higher-alloy steels are a huge pain-in-the-neck to hammer into shape and heat-treat properly. This is not conjecture on my part, it's based on demonstrable facts and a whole lot of conversations with highly-respected bladesmiths.

Full disclosure: I often grind blades out of "carbon steel" because that's what many clients want. I'm definitely NOT saying that low-alloy blades are "bad". I've made, and my friends and clients have beaten the snot out of O1 and 52100 knives, and I own/have tested several factory-made knives made of 1095CV/CarbonV/whatever-you-want-to-call-it this month, and I would not hesitate to rely on them in a tight spot. :thumbup:


Re: M390... I have not worked with it yet, but reports from people I respect and admire are very encouraging.
 
james terrio said:
;)

At the risk of offending my forging knifemaking brethren... the simple fact is this: they stick with simpler steels not because they make "better" knives, but because higher-alloy steels are a huge pain-in-the-neck to hammer into shape and heat-treat properly. This is not conjecture on my part, it's based on demonstrable facts and a whole lot of conversations with highly-respected bladesmiths.

Full disclosure: I often grind blades out of "carbon steel" because that's what many clients want. I'm definitely NOT saying that low-alloy blades are "bad". I've made, and my friends and clients have beaten the snot out of O1 and 52100 knives, and I own/have tested several factory-made knives made of 1095CV/CarbonV/whatever-you-want-to-call-it this month, and I would not hesitate to rely on them in a tight spot. :thumbup:


Re: M390... I have not worked with it yet, but reports from people I respect and admire are very encouraging.
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Yeah, that and they can't forge most of the higher alloy steels..

And the temperatures have to be much more precise than most of them have the equipment to handle.

A guy can't heat something like M390 with a blow torch and just dunk it in a 5 gallon bucket for example and expect to have a usable blade...
 
I don't know definitively, but I think I have a rough idea...Someone please correct me, since I'd like to know if I'm on the right track! Trying to learn more about the properties of different steels. :)

Toughness: 1095

Edge retention: ZDP-189, ELMAX, s110v

Fair balance: CPM-154
 
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