Bummed about my new Council boys FSS axe

[nickzdon]

From a manufacturing perspective, the demand for handles that are made with both perfect, or nearly perfect grain alignment and made exclusively from sapwood can severely restrict quantities in manufacturing. In my experience if you're going to be particular in manufacturing you'll have to settle for either one or the other. All Best Made, and Velvicut premium axe handles are biased towards better grain, and we've therefore needed to allow some amount of heartwood into the mix. In extreme cases the actual design of the handle will require modifications to the design to make use of thinner handle blanks and increase quantities to meet demand.

That being said, I can't say definitively if one is better over the other. There are studies on both issues that support both sides. I think that if there's an issue to address it's education on how to properly use an axe and not abuse it. Misuse and abuse are the largest culprits of broken axes in my opinion.

 

[G-pig]

Here is a photo comparing chisel handles made from Hard Maple and a particularly porous piece of White Ash.

Not a super clear photo, the camera seemed to focus on the snow more. But it does illustrate the point- Ash and other open grain woods are more likely to have a delamination type break than a more closed grain wood.

 

[garry3]

There is a whole lot going on here. FortyTwo blades artical was dealing with ring porous conifers, and the difference between early and late wood. The picture above of GPigs is showing us the difference between a ring porous hardwood (Ash) and a diffuse porous hardwood (Maple).
What I do know for sure is that you can't violate growth rings without also violating grain. How many diamond shaped patterns did the original poster have in the upper part of his axe? Not sure, but I bet it was not good.
A couple weeks ago I recieved an order from House Handles. There were better than twenty handles ordered. I paid an extra 1.00 or so per handle for hand selected. Believe me not a one of those handles were anywhere close to what the original posters looked like. If they were I would be on here telling you about it. Instead I am telling you House Handles knows what a proper handle should look like.
Just saying....

 

[G-pig]

There is a whole lot going on here. FortyTwo blades artical was dealing with ring porous conifers, and the difference between early and late wood. The picture above of GPigs is showing us the difference between a ring porous hardwood (Ash) and a diffuse porous hardwood (Maple).
What I do know for sure is that you can't violate growth rings without also violating grain. How many diamond shaped patterns did the original poster have in the upper part of his axe? Not sure, but I bet it was not good.
A couple weeks ago I recieved an order from House Handles. There were better than twenty handles ordered. I paid an extra 1.00 or so per handle for hand selected. Believe me not a one of those handles were anywhere close to what the original posters looked like. If they were I would be on here telling you about it. Instead I am telling you House Handles knows what a proper handle should look like.
Just saying....

What do you mean by diamond patterns?

 

[garry3]

From a manufacturing perspective, the demand for handles that are made with both perfect, or nearly perfect grain alignment and made exclusively from sapwood can severely restrict quantities in manufacturing. In my experience if you're going to be particular in manufacturing you'll have to settle for either one or the other. All Best Made, and Velvicut premium axe handles are biased towards better grain, and we've therefore needed to allow some amount of heartwood into the mix. In extreme cases the actual design of the handle will require modifications to the design to make use of thinner handle blanks and increase quantities to meet demand.

That being said, I can't say definitively if one is better over the other. There are studies on both issues that support both sides. I think that if there's an issue to address it's education on how to properly use an axe and not abuse it. Misuse and abuse are the largest culprits of broken axes in my opinion.

It's been my experience that sapwood vs heartwood strength varies immensley from one species of tree to another. I have not worked with hickory all that much though. Can you tell me where to find some studies that state that Hickory heart wood is as strong as the sapwood?

 

[garry3]

What do you mean by diamond patterns?

Bad choice of wording on my part. V shaped grain patterns. As in every growth ring that was cut through. Does this make sense?

 

[G-pig]

Bad choice of wording on my part. V shaped grain patterns. As in every growth ring that was cut through. Does this make sense?

I still cant visualize it. I'm a thick headed feller, sorry

 

[garry3]

I still cant visualize it. I'm a thick headed feller, sorry

It's OK. That camp hatchet of yours has probably clouded your vision. You ever get up this way I will show you over a nip of Mezcal.

 

[G-pig]

It's OK. That camp hatchet of yours has probably clouded your vision. You ever get up this way I will show you over a nip of Mezcal.

Oh, that was Pegs, the axe forums drunkard. If you want to give me a wee nip of the ol' bottle, I might oblige however

 

[garry3]

Oh, that was Pegs, the axe forums drunkard. If you want to give me a wee nip of the ol' bottle, I might oblige however

My bad. I owe you a nip now. We can cut the limes with axes.
One thing I have never figured out is why some one would put a worm in a perfectly good bottle of hooch. At first I thought maybe my wife did it so I wouldn't drink it.

 

[jagtech]

Wow,I had no idea this would spark such a debate. I did here back from Council today via email.It was prompt but not what I hoped for. This is there response copy and pasted.The spec for the axe does not call for a particular grain alignment. We have found that the grain orientation should not affect the use of the tool with normal use, especially on the shorter handled tools. We do use specific grain orientation for our Velvicut line of tools as they are a premium product but we do not guarantee grain orientation for our regular line. If you do wish to return or exchange the axe, please contact Curtis at Omaha Knives where you purchased the tool. Thank you. Wel now I have a decision to make. Use it as is, buy another handle and hope for the best or exchange for a Gransfors Bruks small forest axe. Here are a couple of side shots where you can see the grain runout.

 

[Square_peg]

Oh, that was Pegs, the axe forums drunkard.

It's better than being the librarian!

 

[bearhunter]

It's better than being the librarian!

LOL

Damn... I think I'm going to have to go get some beer tomorrow

To the OP...
I wouldn't be happy about it either, but I would just keep it and use it. I'm sure it'll be fine and you'll eventually forget about it the more you use it

 

[Operator1975]

Wow,I had no idea this would spark such a debate. I did here back from Council today via email.It was prompt but not what I hoped for. This is there response copy and pasted.The spec for the axe does not call for a particular grain alignment. We have found that the grain orientation should not affect the use of the tool with normal use, especially on the shorter handled tools. We do use specific grain orientation for our Velvicut line of tools as they are a premium product but we do not guarantee grain orientation for our regular line. If you do wish to return or exchange the axe, please contact Curtis at Omaha Knives where you purchased the tool. Thank you. Wel now I have a decision to make. Use it as is, buy another handle and hope for the best or exchange for a Gransfors Bruks small forest axe. Here are a couple of side shots where you can see the grain runout.

Contact Omaha knife just as an FYI. They will tell u the same thing. Then use it. It won't be an issue unless u over strike or really abuse the hell out of it.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

On a short axe like that I wouldn't be too concerned, though it does seem to have runout in a high-stress location. I'd do like Operator said and contact Omaha Knife then just go ahead and use it in the event not being able to secure a replacement.

 

[Square_peg]

..... though it does seem to have runout in a high-stress location.

Ever had your fingers pinched when an axe or sledge hammer handle splits partially apart? It doesn't feel very good.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Yeah. It sucks. I've used plenty of other folks' axes that had raggy duct tape wrapped 'round under the head to cover a crack and it doesn't always cover the pinchy bits completely. Blood blister are the worst.

 

[nickzdon]

I remember a post on here a while back about handle guards, hockey tape, wire wrapping and the like. Perhaps taking some impact precautions could extend the life and prevent failure of the handle. Just a thought.

 

[sutured]

In my experience grain orientation matters very much. ALL of my ax handles over 20 inches long or so that didn't have proper grain orientation failed along the grain eventually. The only failures I've had on proper grained handles is from the wood near the head getting too damaged from overstrikes and the like.

The combination of poor grain and heart/sap wood in that handle would make me send it back in a heartbeat.

This handle failed after less than an hour of use, and it never got struck against the wood I was chopping.

I think that the manufactures insistence that grain orientation doesn't matter is simply their way of trying to be able to use less expensive, poor quality handles. Because a lot more people buy axes than use them, they get away with it.

Considering how much time and effort it takes to rehang an ax, I think it's crazy to accept anything but a near-perfect handle.

 

[M3mphis]

In my experience grain orientation matters very much. ALL of my ax handles over 20 inches long or so that didn't have proper grain orientation failed along the grain eventually. The only failures I've had on proper grained handles is from the wood near the head getting too damaged from overstrikes and the like.

The combination of poor grain and heart/sap wood in that handle would make me send it back in a heartbeat.

This handle failed after less than an hour of use, and it never got struck against the wood I was chopping.

I think that the manufactures insistence that grain orientation doesn't matter is simply their way of trying to be able to use less expensive, poor quality handles. Because a lot more people buy axes than use them, they get away with it.

Considering how much time and effort it takes to rehang an ax, I think it's crazy to accept anything but a near-perfect handle.

That's a great example of some of the crappiest hickory you could possibly come up with. It has mostly the porous, fast spring growth. The bands of summer growth are tiny, almost nonexistent. That handle may have been doomed regardless of the grain orientation.