Bushcraft Back Pack

Interesting read, thanks.

At the moment I lean towards lighter anatomic packs with internal frames. Or no frames.

If I wanted an external frame pack for carrying lots of stuff I'd probably go for something by the finnish company Savotta. They make full size packs from 1.8kg to 3.7kg in sizes ranging from 60L to 105L
Example:
17327d.jpg

Border patrol pack @ 2KG 60L

model 725 @ 1.8 kg 70 L

model 906 @ 3 kg 85 L

On the other hand if I was carrying that much stuff I'd probably strap it to a bicycle. Also stuff that's not made in a sweatshop does not come cheap. :)
 
Last edited:
Can't say as I can see anything more there than vanity luggage. It's the sort of thing I'd far more expect to see adorning some celebrity at Heathrow than actually being used as a serious alternative to contemporary designs out in the sticks, for reasons that a few have already touched on.............................I get it from a curio perspective. In the same way that my spirit burner powered campaign iron is a nice the to own because of the build quality, and to me a bit of the charm of yesteryear, I can't get much beyond this being something one has principally for display. It can be used, and was used very successfully, but it is virtually obsolete now for good reasons.............................Another aspect that gets me wondering is what the hell do you use with it. As we've covered, 7 lbs for a 45 liter pack is hugely heavy, and I'd need to recover some of that. Sure the pack is all retro and earthy but you'd have to stuff it with some pretty high-tech, nay even ultralight kit, to have much of anything you'd want to carry far. That seems to defeat what the attraction is for this kind of kit. Sure you could be consistent and stuff it with period tools if a horse or kayak was carrying it, you could even lash cast iron stuff to it, but you wouldn't want to carry it far. I was wondering what the weight might be if you just had the empty bag + ax + blanket + steel cup + leather water bottle, and I didn't arrive number, just that it would be very heavy for a miserable cold night of tending the fire unless you did it in summer. Chuck in a canvas awning or tent and the weight has just got silly.............................Further, even if we don't compare it to contemporary kit and look to a comparison with similar type objects I can't really get past the “image” thing being what allows it to command that price. Sure it looks well made and the leather and brass is pretty but I don't see that making a huge difference in performance over similar objects. It strikes me more like a surface change in a car that one could pay extra for rather than an engineering advantage. “Mine is better because it is a Mulliner Park Ward, that's why it costs 10* the price of the next one that works just as well. Here I shall introduce a dedicated reenactment pack that costs £30 brand new [it's not some mouldy old 1940s surplus]. I'm not taking the piss when I tell you that this is a prop for an Indiana Jones reenactment look. It's sold specifically as such and even forms part of the name. Spot the functional differences that make one 10* the cost of the other. And how long would it take someone with a modicum of ability to address the pretty thing with a few bits of leather, brass, and a bit of sewing. A skilled person could probably pay themselves $250 an hour to bring it up to near cosmetic par and have it done before the end of the movie.
IND2013_04_11_125837.jpg
IND2013_04_11_125814.jpg
IND2013_04_11_125747.jpg
................................The last aspect that is a bit of a wonder for me is the stated volume. I'm translating “Expanded volume, 4968 c.i.” to be 81.41093 liters. Now I know it says “approx” but still. I've owned a bunch of packs that are about 80 liters in capacity and none have looked like that. Does expanded volume mean tie stuff on like a tinker? Surely not. But given the shape of the lid I don't see how it could be extended to that capacity. Is there some sort of stealth gusset that allows the pack to extend hideously away from the center of gravity, like what good packs strive to avoid? How approx is approx?
 
Can't say as I can see anything more there than vanity luggage...blah, blah....

Hilarious. This isn't a "vanity" pack any more than it would have been one 50 years ago, but for anyone drunk on the kool-aid of "modern must be better" I'm sure that gear based on timeless materials and craftsman construction must appear archaic and impractical (as opposed to the "fine work" being done in some sweat shop on the other side of the world...). For those who haven't entirely made up their minds prior to any actual first-hand experience with FR's packs, you might want to check out American Grouch's post from a couple years ago about how he loads his FR pack, and what he carries in it:

http://www.americangrouch.com/2011/02/sometimes-old-is-better-than-new.html

The official BCUSA pack was made by Frost River, as I believe is the pack offered by WillowHaven Outdoor School. Not that I personally care much about such endorsements, but it does show that others who actually use their gear, and use it hard, obviously share the same point of view about the real-world usability of such packs. Hardly a "period re-enactment" pack, nor something for celebrities at airports...I'll stop there.

The OP mentioned Frost River packs, so I provided him with some first-hand info. Now, I'll be loading up my extremely uncomfortable pack and heading into the mountains where there will be no crowds to appreciate the "retro vanity" of my gear. I'm sure I'll suffer horribly under the weight of my archaic choices in equipment...

Carry on...
 
Last edited:
7 lbs before the canvas absorbs the rainwater.........
Carried too much wet canvas in my days

And my 35 years old canvas rucksack fell apart
The well preserved canvas just gave up

In general I am not prepared to pay the cost or weight for fantastic retro equipment
 
Hilarious. This isn't a "vanity" pack any more than it would have been one 50 years ago, but for anyone drunk on the kool-aid of "modern must be better" I'm sure that gear based on timeless materials and craftsman construction must appear archaic and impractical (as opposed to the "fine work" being done in some sweat shop on the other side of the world...). For those who haven't entirely made up their minds prior to any actual first-hand experience with FR's packs, you might want to check out American Grouch's post from a couple years ago about how he loads his FR pack, and what he carries in it:http://www.americangrouch.com/2011/02/sometimes-old-is-better-than-new.htmlThe official BCUSA pack was made by Frost River, as I believe is the pack offered by WillowHaven Outdoor School. Not that I personally care much about such endorsements, but it does show that others who actually use their gear, and use it hard, obviously share the same point of view about the real-world usability of such packs. Hardly a "period re-enactment" pack, nor something for celebrities at airports...I'll stop there.The OP mentioned Frost River packs, so I provided him with some first-hand info. Now, I'll be loading up my extremely uncomfortable pack and heading into the mountains where there will be no crowds to appreciate the "retro vanity" of my gear. I'm sure I'll suffer horribly under the weight of my archaic choices in equipment...Carry on...
The cool aid comment is just a diversion to avoid grasping the nettle...................... It's not a question of modern must be better it is more of a point that professionals outside certain niche groups do not use this kind of equipment any more for good reasons. A lot of money both government and private goes into the research of and development of this sort of stuff. If we are going to ignore that we might as well ignore sports science and still have handicapped folks running in the Olympics on wooden legs..................... These sorts of packs can be placed along a timeline of pack evolution. That's all there is to it. They were not the first and they will not be the last. Your deciding on what constitutes timeless materials and construction is completely arbitrary and invented by you. There is no logical counter to that...........................Yes, the OP mentioned these packs, and true I didn't respond with a first hand account of them, but I didn't need to. Given their fundamental baggy sack with handles like nature I know enough from just using a 58 large pack, that is essentially the same in that regard, just how grim that can be. We can swap around other elements all we like but there's no escaping that underlying factor...........................All I can see is that you've tried to drag in politics about the country of origin, and that you've pretty much failed to address anything I said about the pack from the size of it, to comparable products, the weight, and even tarting up one that is going to be functionally as good so I don't see as we can make much progress here. All I'm hearing from you is a little foot stamp because you don't like what I said about vanity luggage. You're entitled to that. But let's not confuse that with objective statements about kit. I'm talking about kit, this bit of kit. If you want to make it more about me attacking your kit then I'm only too pleased to know you'll be carrying one again soon.
 
Last edited:
Look - this has become ridiculous, and is precisely what I tire of on this forum - people needlessly arguing (and being unnecessarily condescending...), about inconsequential crap, just because it isn't what they would personally choose, rather than recognizing that there are many ways to get things done. I also use many outdoor items made of "modern materials" and am hardly a hardcore retro guy across the board. Instead, I buy and use functional things that I believe are built the best that they can be and built to last, and ideally built by people who actually care about the products they produce - whether that be a leather and canvas pack, or a syl-nylon tipi. And if it's made domestically, then even better, imo (whether that may be "political" or not...). I have spent a lifetime outdoors, on my own extended trips, and leading others in some very remote places, from Alaska to Patagonia. I have used a huge amount and variety of gear in that time - my choices are based on experience, not nostalgia. And the conclusions I have come to, based on that experience, are that durable and simple are usually the best choice in the long run, over things like obsessing about weight or the latest "innovation."

But all choices have their place and context. A day pack that I'm using for bumming around in the woods? That's not where I'm going to be so hung up on the most modern, lightweight choices, and will instead choose something substantial and durable, like my FR pack. On the other hand, a 7000 cu. in. pack that I'm going to be using on a three-week backcountry trip, and/or potentially packing out an animal? That's where I'll pay more attention to those factors.

You know, it's funny I've heard such similar retorts from other camps, such as compound bow shooters who shake their heads at my bows (even though people have been hunting successfully with 'traditional' bows for far, far longer than their modern counterparts). They even ask ridiculous questions like "you're really going to hunt with that?" or make snap judgements like "you're way more likely to wound an animal with one of those..." Or the notion that traditional slipjoint knives are simply archaic, nostalgia pieces not capable of "serious work" like today's knives are. ....the list goes on. It's amazing we ever got anything done before this wondrous modern age, isn't it? I shudder to think about today's ultra-modern, ultra lightweight outdoorists having to deal with being outdoors in any age before this fortunate era of abundant convenience, complaining about every extra ounce...

I will have to say however, that given your post above, and the many unnecessary jabs it contains ("...vanity luggage," "...adorning some celebrity at Heathrow," "this is a prop for an Indiana Jones reenactment look....") that attempting to take the high ground of "objectivity" seems more than a bit dubious.
 
Last edited:
I will have to say however, that given your post above, and the many unnecessary jabs it contains ("...vanity luggage," "...adorning some celebrity at Heathrow," "this is a prop for an Indiana Jones reenactment look....") that attempting to take the high ground of "objectivity" seems more than a bit dubious.
They are not jabs they are observation statements............................ If I was going to bet a long 'un as to where I would encounter one of those in meatspace that's my bet, both in terms of location and context.......................I was trying to avoid an unnecessary link or some Photoshop when I made mention of the India Jones thing. Here you go, precisely that. This company has a speciality in providing props for little reenectment and movies. They provided props for Inglorious Bastards, American Gangster, Enemy at the Gates, Harry Potter, Band of Brothers, Saving Private Ryan and on and on. They also provide retro kit for people that want to dress up like they are from an Indiana Jones movie....................I'm done with your baggage issues now. Toodle pip.
ind2013_04_11_174345.jpg
ind2013_04_11_174316.jpg
 
I guess I never realized how diverse the planet has become when hiking in the back country, wherever that might be for many folks. I typically walk the big timber of Northern Wisconsin and am more likely to bump into a black bear than other people most days when back off the roads looking for ruffed grouse coverts and whitetail areas.

Even though I've historically used canvas packs because that's what I grew up using around here ( I'm 59 years old now )........I guess I'm an Indiana Jones wannabe according to some on this forum - yeah, OK. I also use pack baskets when on the rivers tent camping overnight..........not sure what movie wannabe that makes me, but my point is this...........older style gear may be a novelty to many folks, but to some it's still the norm.
 
They are not jabs they are observation statements............................

Sure they are, chap.

This company has a speciality in providing props for little reenectment and movies. They provided props for Inglorious Bastards, American Gangster, Enemy at the Gates, Harry Potter, Band of Brothers, Saving Private Ryan and on and on. They also provide retro kit for people that want to dress up like they are from an Indiana Jones movie....................

An absolutely meaningless factoid. How many pieces of "modern" gear could I also point to, as examples of product placement in movies? Does that automatically disqualify every one of those items as also being quality pieces of gear? Hardly.

"Toodle, pip" indeed. :rolleyes:
 
Since I have ACTUALLY owned Frost River gear they are far from movie props. About some of the most robust hard use bags I have ever seen. Just not my style of carry. This thread is getting silly.
 
[...]people needlessly arguing (and being unnecessarily condescending...), about inconsequential crap, just because it isn't what they would personally choose, rather than recognizing that there are many ways to get things done. [...] And the conclusions I have come to, based on that experience, are that durable and simple are usually the best choice in the long run, over things like obsessing about weight or the latest "innovation."

But all choices have their place and context.[...] It's amazing we ever got anything done before this wondrous modern age, isn't it? I shudder to think about today's ultra-modern, ultra lightweight outdoorists having to deal with being outdoors in any age before this fortunate era of abundant convenience, complaining about every extra ounce... [...]


While I agree with the general gist, I just want to highlight your point that there are many ways to skin a cat. I'd caution that just as there's no reason to denigrate those who like robust and heavier gear, those who do prefer the opposite end of the spectrum deserve similar consideration. I don't believe at all that UL and outdoor competence are necessarily mutually exclusive, same with those who go heavier. Experiencing the outdoors is a personal journey; we all hike our own hike.

That being said, while I wouldn't want a do a trek in one of these, I can definitely see the appeal and value. I'd get one of these in the same vein I have had and do currently own maxpedition packs: these things would take whatever you'd throw at them. Robust gear holds up well over regular use and rarely if ever needs replacement. And when things get rough, I don't have to baby them. I would gladly go scrambling some boulder laden slope or bushwack through hau bush with one of these FR packs; I'd be much less inclined to do the same with a ultalight cuben pack. It's just tool selection, like anything else in life, which ultimately only supplements knowledge and skills.

If I knew the world were ending tomorrow and I could never again replace or acquire new state of the art lightweight gear, you can bet I'd be buying some Kifaru, Frost River, etc. for the long haul (edited to add: not that I go about intentionally buying stuff only to constantly replace it when something "better"/newer comes out, but obviously light weight often comes at the cost of durability and longevity). If someone created incredible Mithril-like materials that would be invincible while remaining light as a feather, I'd be all over it. As it stands, we make compromises and select whatever tools we feel we can best accomplish the task with.

It's all good :) :thumbup:

I like coming to BF, these outdoors subs in particular for me, precisely because of the diversity in the info and experience provided by other members. There's so much to learn from others who may or may not share your view :thumbup:
 
Last edited:
I'm thinking a tactical hobo bindle. Carbon fibre stick with compass top, 500D Cordura MC kerchief complete with MOLLE webbing and spun kevlar cinch cord.

rockwell_runaway_zps143bdbde.jpg



I can't carry a pack without modern suspension due to back issues but I like the canvas packs I see offered by FR & DP.
 
I'm thinking a tactical hobo bindle. Carbon fibre stick with compass top, 500D Cordura MC kerchief complete with MOLLE webbing and spun kevlar cinch cord.

I'm thinking there could be a whole thread of "mods" for this rig...

"Let's see your bindle stick para-cord wraps!"

"Will Maxped accessory pockets work on MOLLE kerchief?"

"Top 10 survival items that fit inside a hollow bindle handle?"
 
Some time ago I read the following quote ;

"When you buy quality, you only cry once"

Unless the pack weights 7lbs, in which case you'll keep crying "Why didn't I get that A'teryx when it was on sale on Amazon" every time you use it.

It's not like the suspension system will be up to modern standards either.
 
Back
Top