Bushcraft: one and done?

aelfred_allspach said:
Well I'm cool with 100+ pounds
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aelfred_allspach said:
Or I'll trade my Mtech out for my Vietnam bayonette
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aelfred_allspach said:
SAKs are way too small for me to carry. I'd break it the first time I used it.
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[URL=http://s437.photobucket.com/user/raindog101/media/78d9404548d72960a29be1ba563fac9eda2a298f15fc2160cfd113bbaa6aba1d_zps8dakzj8a.jpg.html][/URL]

In any case, stick around for a while, and read a little bit. Maybe visit the Outdoor Gear and Survival subforum over in "The Great Outdoors" forum. You can learn a lot from the very knowledgeable people around here. Except for maybe Marcinek. Well, I suppose you could learn irritability and sarcasm from him. Valuable skills, to be sure:D...JK Marci:thumbup:
 
No. I'm serious. I carried a 220 pound rucksack all through basic so I'm cool with it. And the bayonette is great for hard work. Like I said, I use what I have so I don't have to buy a lot
 
My normal woods carry is a F1 and a SAK Farmer. I can pretty much do 95% of what I need to do with that load out without carrying much weight.
 
aelfred_allspach said:
Well I'm cool with 100+ pounds
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just as a side note... if you pick your tools well, you won't have to be ok with 100+ pounds. we had a saying in the infantry years ago "pack light... freeze at night" for this very reason. If you pack too much weight, you can't move quickly or efficiently enough to do anything. I've packed 100lbs on way more than one occasion and IMHO unless you have 60lbs of comms equipment and ammo.. you overpacked for almost any occasion.

just my two cents
 
bushcraft is the art of doing something elegantly with a minimum of unnecessary or overly modern kit.


Having both an ax and a knife for batoning makes zero sense to me. If weight isn't an issue, chainsaws work really, really well.
 
RX-79G said:
bushcraft is the art of doing something elegantly with a minimum of unnecessary or overly modern kit.


Having both an ax and a knife for batoning makes zero sense to me. If weight isn't an issue, chainsaws work really, really well.
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agreed... if you carried a 220lb rucksack all through basic then a chainsaw shouldn't be too much extra to hang off your belt as an addition to the kit you listed.
 
when you have real hard use experience with knives you will totally re-evaluate your thinking.
 
Bushcraft?

-Bic lighter
-Ass-pocket of whiskey
-Bigass bag of beef jerky
-Opinel

-and of course a large SAK :D
 
I use a modern made alice pack and try to go by the rule of three. Three sources of fire, three means of light, three edged tools, three different methods of water sanitizing, three different types of food, and three different ways to make a shelter. It help with weight if you have a primary which should always be on your belt secured and then steps down from there. For me my primaries are my Condor Bushlore, Leatherman Super Tool 300, ferro rod, a Leatherman Micra, a full water bottle, and a space blanket in a pocket. That way if I am separated from my pack I still have everything I need to survive through the night. I also prefer to use the harder methods first such as scrounging for tinder and using the ferro rod rather than the Wetfire tinder and Bic lighter in my pack that way I have the easy method for those times when you are too cold/tired/wet and it also builds skills which I think is half the point we all do this in the first place.
 
Currently said:
http://images.knifecenter.com/thumb/1500x1500/knifecenter/condor/images/CN3002BBanw.jpg[/img]
SOGTL02.jpg
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I can't speak for the SOG but anything made by Condor that I have handled so far gets a thumbs up in my book. Just make sure to take care of that carbon steel.
 
kycolonel said:
One thing I always suggest is to consider how far you are going with your bushcrafting. Is it a hobby, a weekend camping activity, survival prep, or a skill for longer backpacking ventures? Weight becomes an issue for the latter two. I have an assortment of bigger blades and hatchets that have never seen my backpack for longer trips. When you are trying to limit your weight to 40 or 50lbs total, it becomes difficult to justify using 20-25% of your packing capacity for blades. Just food for thought.
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I've done a great deal of extended backpacking and mountain climbing trips and this is spot on. Never brought more than a small fixed blade or solid folder and a small leatherman multi-tool (original PST).

For "bushcraft" I'd probably go with a mid sized fixed blade like a BK16. Batoning and chopping is all the rage around here. While fun, batoning has never been something I've "needed" to do. If you like doing it, then by all means get a big.chopper or hatchet but for bushcraft and backcountry survival, it's not needed.

Just my $0.02
 
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You're cool with carrying 100 or even 220 lbs ? Man, you certainly are a Hercules to me ! Don't waste that splendid physical power with dragging along a heap of tools. Keeping your energy is the first law in nature. Use your strength to carry water, shelter and food (plenty of all 3) and you will enjoy your stay out there. If fire is allowed in your area, the most efficient way to downsize wood is a folding pruning saw (like made by Bahco or Fiskars). Your knife needs will be covered by a multiblade SAK (even with tweezers : sometimes pulling out a shard or a thorn from your hand (or foot !) is way more important for your journey than making fire...). Really want a knife ? Add a 4" sturdy fixed blade. Condor has many which can do a lot from preparing food to splitting small logs and shaving fuzzies.
 
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aelfred_allspach said:
So as you know, I'm trying to learn more about the art. Do you guys prefer just one knife or a collection of tools? I'm considering a ruck with a hatchet, ferro rod, pup tent, mora companion, my Mtech xtreme tactical fighter(for the heavy duty battoning, chopping and ferro use), diamond stone, water purifier system, camel back, and collapsible fishing pole. What do you guys carry or use?
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I am not the consumate camper or bushcrafter, but I have fun and the tools I choose are reasonable. I generally have a Victorinox swiss army knife, about a 4-6" fixed blade, and a folding saw (Silky Pocket Boy). You can substitute the hatchet for the fixed blade if you like. Sometimes I'll have another folder simply because I often EDC two folders typically. I'm talking day hikes or over nighters mostly.... not a month long hike on the Appalachain Trail where you cover 100's of miles and every oz is important.

I would dump the Mtech tactical knife and pick up the Mora Companion as you mentioned in your other thread and carry the folder for other cutting. Or get something a bit more robust for batonning. I don't recommend "heavy duty batonning" with a knife and your hatchet should serve you well for that kind of thing. I am not a big hatchet guy and often prefer a stiff machete for chopping small trees. But the folding saw should take care of that more easily than the chopper anyway.

If you choose Condor stuff and I do. Don't set out on a 30-day hike without testing your equipment out. Sometimes their heat treat is not the best and there can be failures. They will replace however under warranty, but that doesn't do you much good on a long hike where you need the blade.
 
I read through some of your earlier posts. You mentioned that you would break a SAK. If that is the case, you are using it for things that you shouldn't. You might like the Vic Trekker (this is the 111mm size) that has a fairly large cutting blade (get non-serrated version) and a saw blade that many who are traveling light(er) will use for everything as you don't need to be cutting logs that are 3" in diameter in the woods.

There are all sorts of combinations of cutting tools that work for people and it is just a matter on settling on what you like and feel comfortable using. It also depends whether you are car camping (when I might have a hell of a lot of stuff with me) to what you might carry in a backpack. In which case, weight and space utilization is important. You have to be reasonable and have some idea of what kinds of things you are likely to be doing. We're all a little different. One might like an hatchet and another wants a big chopping blade like the Kabar Becker BK-9 (which is a good choice by the way) or the BK-7. But for most things, the BK-16 or BK-17 is all you need and you can baton with them as well. I'm talking about examples of knife sizes or types that are useful and people like. The BK-2 was popular a couple years ago, but I just find it over built. But if you are rough on your knives, that might be a good choice along with a folder. It all depends.....

The two or three tool approach is my preference. I will always have a folder with me. It can be whatever you like or prefer. But it should be a reasonably good slicer and something that you can do detailed cutting tasks. I carry a fixed blade in the woods usually and it is usually a 4-6" bladed knife. Frankly, I seldom even need a fixed blade for much of anything, but I still tend to carry one. But where weight is important, for me, I'd drop the fixed blade. However, the Mora Companion is very light.... all kinds of choices.

The TV survival shows will always show a fixed blade over a folder. It is a preference thing. But a fixed blade is much stronger than your typical folder and can be used for most things a folder is used for with some effort. So, if I were out for a week, there is little question I would have a fixed blade with me because I don't want to break my SAK.
 
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I can usually fit all my gear inside a Snugpack if I'm just goint out for the day. It contains the following

25ft of paracord
two whetstones
first aid supplies (bandages, alcohol wipes, sewing kit etc...)
fire making (altoids tin, char cloth, bic lighter, fire steel, dryer lint, and fire starters)
Marttiini fixed blade (I prefer it over the mora)
SOL emergency blanket (mostly used for shelter buiding)
Water purification tabs
G.I. canteen
Corona pruning saw
Simple Shot Scout Slingshot

this is usually what I have stuffed into my snugpack, but I'm probably forgetting something though. If I want to do a weekend trip I'll take my Jansport Scout frame pack which contains:

2 gallon water bladder
90% wool blanket
Teton 20 degree sleeping bag
Ozark trail mat (pleasantly surprised with it's durability)
Teton cursher pillow
A tent which I'm in the market for a new one
Mushroom identification literature, you can never be too careful
Pipe and tobacco (don't judge)
swiss made whittlin' knife
snugpack with bushcraft gear.

Now I have pretty much completley steered clear of carrying large fixed blades for chopping and batoning, I prefer my Collin 5lb head. Been a real trust worthy piece and has gone through some serious shit.
 
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aelfred_allspach said:
No. I'm serious. I carried a 220 pound rucksack all through basic so I'm cool with it. And the bayonette is great for hard work. Like I said, I use what I have so I don't have to buy a lot
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There is almost no wrong way to be in the backcountry. There are a few, obviously.

Getting yourself killed or injured is wrong because it puts other people at risk hauling what's left of you out.

Ruining the experience for other people who have the right and expectation to same "wilderness experience" as you is also wrong. This is particularly true on public lands.

The thing about bushcraft is that it sits somewhere on the spectrum between those skills and tools needed to keep you alive and trashing public lands.

Here's the thing and most important thing I can say... You have the decimal point in the wrong place.

People routinely hike the big trails like the AT and PCT with packs more in line with 22.0 pounds, not 220 pounds. I'm not telling you that you should carry only 22lbs. What you carry is your own business. Your hike. Your pack. Your knees. But, I am telling you that it's very possible to move through the wilderness with a much, much, much lighter load. It's routine and people do it all the time and it requires more skills that just bushcraft - things like stove craft, clothing craft, tarp/tent craft, weather craft and so on.

Harvey Manning, original author of the mountaineering Bible, "The Freedom of Hills" only carried a simple Swiss Army Knife. But, he also carried a huge amount of skill and knowledge and he carried other equipment that allowed for faster, SAFER and more comfortable backcountry travel.

My recommendation is that your get books by Chris Townsend and Colin Fletcher on general non-military backpacking and then move to authors like Ray Jardine to learn the skills of ultra light. I'm not advocating that you carry less. I am advocating that you increase your knowledge base and experience set so that you have a broader range of options from which choose.

If you choose to go with the bushcraft approach, just note that you're increasing risk and very much increasing the impact on the land and thus are more likely to deprive others that follow you from the same wild experience that you seek.

FWIW, my standard backcountry carry is an Opinel #9 and a Leatherman PS4. For UL trips, the PS4 is very much enough.

On ski trips where I'm going to use a small wood stove (Emberlit), I'll carry a small folding saw and a Mora Companion HD (or similar). That's more than enough.
 
pinnah said:
There is almost no wrong way to be in the backcountry. There are a few, obviously.

Getting yourself killed or injured is wrong because it puts other people at risk hauling what's left of you out.

Ruining the experience for other people who have the right and expectation to same "wilderness experience" as you is also wrong. This is particularly true on public lands.

The thing about bushcraft is that it sits somewhere on the spectrum between those skills and tools needed to keep you alive and trashing public lands.

Here's the thing and most important thing I can say... You have the decimal point in the wrong place.

People routinely hike the big trails like the AT and PCT with packs more in line with 22.0 pounds, not 220 pounds. I'm not telling you that you should carry only 22lbs. What you carry is your own business. Your hike. Your pack. Your knees. But, I am telling you that it's very possible to move through the wilderness with a much, much, much lighter load. It's routine and people do it all the time and it requires more skills that just bushcraft - things like stove craft, clothing craft, tarp/tent craft, weather craft and so on.

Harvey Manning, original author of the mountaineering Bible, "The Freedom of Hills" only carried a simple Swiss Army Knife. But, he also carried a huge amount of skill and knowledge and he carried other equipment that allowed for faster, SAFER and more comfortable backcountry travel.

My recommendation is that your get books by Chris Townsend and Colin Fletcher on general non-military backpacking and then move to authors like Ray Jardine to learn the skills of ultra light. I'm not advocating that you carry less. I am advocating that you increase your knowledge base and experience set so that you have a broader range of options from which choose.

If you choose to go with the bushcraft approach, just note that you're increasing risk and very much increasing the impact on the land and thus are more likely to deprive others that follow you from the same wild experience that you seek.

FWIW, my standard backcountry carry is an Opinel #9 and a Leatherman PS4. For UL trips, the PS4 is very much enough.

On ski trips where I'm going to use a small wood stove (Emberlit), I'll carry a small folding saw and a Mora Companion HD (or similar). That's more than enough.
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I guess I'm confusing bushcraft with primitive survival I want low impact stuff. Like mick dodge stuff.
 
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