Bushcraft: one and done?

[pinnah]

Steve,

Is that overlook Tucks (as RBB suggests) or Great Gulf. Can't be Great Gulf, can it? That's gotta be Lion Head in the background.

Since we're sharing....

Did Whitney via the Mountaineers Route (class 3 at the end) with buds back in the 90s. That's been my highest point. No snow on it when we were there. But there was some puke on my boots when we were at the top. I blame my buddy's CytoMax.

From this fall's solo trip to Ethan Pond.
Ethan Pond by Pinnah, on Flickr

For grins, I took the Emberlit along with my Trangia and that really convinced me that (for me), the Emberlit is really much better suited for the lowland hardwoods, and not the higher boreal forest. The Silky Pocket Boy cut through spruce dead fall just fine and the Mora Companion HD was plenty up to splitting it down but a) I'd rather be walking than futzing with wood prep and b) by time you get to the boreal zone, it really makes more sense to localize impact by staying in established campsites (like in Steve's shot) and once you localize impact, even the stingy wood requirements of the Emberlit are (for my tastes) just too much.

Woke up to snow in the am and was much happier to lay in my bag and fire up the Trangia. Easier, faster, no fuss, no muss. It was fun to carry the Mora and the saw, I guess but they won't go again for the fun of it. Just much more fun to have less weight and cover more ground.

Snowy morning at Ethan Pond by Pinnah, on Flickr

 

[pinnah]

Steve, if that overlook is north of Washington summit, you must be close to Clay, no? Can't see the northern peaks.

From closer to Auto Road... Left to right in the background: Jefferson, Adam & Madison.

Great Gulf by Pinnah, on Flickr

 

[Steve6387]

Steve, if that overlook is north of Washington summit, you must be close to Clay, no? ...

Really Nice Pics and Great shots of the northern Presidentials!

Yes, I am 95% sure that overlook shot was somewhere between Jefferson and Clay. It's definitely overlooking the Great Gulf. The group shot was someplace along the AT in that area, but I think it was further north and was actually overlooking the back (west or northwest) side of the AT.

I really liked your previous post on the original bushcraft topic. Sorry to the OP if we threadjacked it.

 

[C_Claycomb]

Best, concise description of "bushcraft" and where it fits with expeditions, survival, primitive skills and historical interests.
[video=YouTube;VxvVfgx9PBU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxvVfgx9PBU[/video]

Karamat has a heck of a lot of good videos posted now of Mors. He may come across like an absent minded old professor, but he is unsurpassed as a walking encyclopaedia of boreal bushcraft knowledge. The stuff he is able to do with a cheap Mora puts most folks to shame. You could do a lot worse than watching everything you can of his.

 

[neeman]

Welcome

May I suggest you do not invest a lot of money
yet
till you know what you want
Tools do not make the man

Simple is good
A $10 Mora
a $10 12" Machete
A $10 Pruning saw
A $10 10x10 tarp

These could last you a long long time

With these work on you skill set
Learn how to lay fires
How to cut simple small wood of small fires
The worry about fire rods and the like

 

[22-rimfire]

I agree with the simplicity of the tool selection Neeman, but honestly none of my similar tools cost me $10 each except maybe my least expensive blue tarp. The 12" machete is a very useful woods tool. I tend to go a bit larger or go with a smaller fixed blade knife. But your list does cover the basics.

Nice pictures pinnah. The important thing with tools is that you can use them safely and provide enough flexibility in accomplishing the kinds of tasks you are likely to do. The OP mentoned earler a hatchet. I find that the kinds of cutting done with a hatchet tends to be a little safer than using a large knife (12" machete or other fixed blade). But I generally prefer the blade over the hatchet.

 

[B34NS]

He can carry a log splitter as well

Haha that could be fun.

Pinnah's given some really good thoughts on this and really appreciate the perspective. It's nice to hear everyones in fact so far in that these threads go south quick. :thumbup:

 

[pinnah]

Beans, thanks for the kind words.

I really like Tim Smith from Jack Mountain Bushcraft. He put out a great survival Podcast that I re-listen to quite often.

The only thing I would change about that Venn Diagram is that I think the modern "sleeps under nylon" crowd is actually at least 4 distinct sub-groups now. The first is the traditional backpacking/mountaineering crowd. The second is the ultra-light or fast packing crowd. The third is the miliatary/tactical crowd. And the fouth is the hunting/fishing crowd. Each has its own sub-cultures and emphases. For example, I've found that hunters do a better job hiking off trail than most backpackers. Moutaineers tend to be better at tent/stove craft than must hunters. Miliatary guys I've hiked with do the best with team work (usually).

A lot to learn from each other.

 

[neeman]

Pinnah,

Interesting four groups
I am not clear of the distinction between trad backpacking and Ultralight
Both are self contained, relying fully on what is carried on their back

I have moved into carrying much more modern gear that is significantly lighter, when does this become ultralight?
Or if I have to ask, I am not doing it?

I would create two sub groups of fully self contained and those not who are using the land

 

[Steve6387]

Beans, thanks for the kind words.

I really like Tim Smith from Jack Mountain Bushcraft. He put out a great survival Podcast that I re-listen to quite often.

The only thing I would change about that Venn Diagram is that I think the modern "sleeps under nylon" crowd is actually at least 4 distinct sub-groups now. The first is the traditional backpacking/mountaineering crowd. The second is the ultra-light or fast packing crowd. The third is the miliatary/tactical crowd. And the fouth is the hunting/fishing crowd. Each has its own sub-cultures and emphases. For example, I've found that hunters do a better job hiking off trail than most backpackers. Moutaineers tend to be better at tent/stove craft than must hunters. Miliatary guys I've hiked with do the best with team work (usually).

A lot to learn from each other.

In my years of hiking, I've never thought about the groups... At least not to the extent of breaking out their respective traits. It makes sense though. In doing a few trips with a few military friends (no longer active) . I would add "tough" as a common trait.
Specifically I've seen a couple of times they were not in the same shape as others and we're clearly suffering... But they always kept chugging song with a smile. Just seemed like there was no question about getting it done. More of an assumption it would all be fine.

 

[C_Claycomb]

The thing about that Venn diagram is that each of those areas was meant to be broad and cover a wide enough spectrum that you could break it down, but still be encompassed by the overall group. I am sure you have all seen the seemingly endless threads where people debate whether bushcraft is survival, or just old fashioned camping like they have been doing since they were kids, or a fad started by marketing people, etc. :yawn:

That diagram was arrived at from long discussion at the Woodsmoke Rendezvous so as not to exclude anyone based upon the direction they were approaching wilderness skills. The nice thing from my view is that it illustrates how you could be doing primitive skills or survival, and may not be doing bushcraft anything, and that that is okay. Earlier discussions had invariably been all or nothing, so folk who approached from primitive skills and those from modern survival would both lay claim to "bushcraft" but see very little that they had in common with each other...and argue about it!

This video accompanies the diagram rather well. The video is fairly long but worth watching. Most of these guys wrote the books on bushcraft...and then there was my friend who was there as a guest, and token Brit. As the youngest there, his explanation (35:00 - 48:00) of how he started into learning bushcraft may be the most applicable for someone else who is young(ish) and starting out might approach things. I would recommend watching all of it because it is interesting for back info. No specific skills being shown, but more about what this stuff is about and the philosophy of it.

[video=youtube;f5OQhmcL8J4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5OQhmcL8J4[/video]

Atb
Chris

 

[22-rimfire]

C Claycomb, thanks for the video link. I found the historical aspect to be very interesting. I noticed that at the "beginning" there was very little organized information sources and these guys helped to put that together. Folks here sometimes ask for "a good book on edible plants or edible trees" and even today the information is still somewhat limited.

 

[David From NC]

No. I'm serious. I carried a 220 pound rucksack all through basic so I'm cool with it. And the bayonette is great for hard work. Like I said, I use what I have so I don't have to buy a lot

BS.

Now I know he's a troll.

 

[jdk1]

Knives helped prep dinner and one cut up some cheese...

With a camp full of 40+ year old guys, there's usually no shortage of folks cutting the cheese

 

[jdk1]

Here you go. $35 and under 19 oz. total. Try to see if there's anything you need done which they can't do, and then try to break them

Hultafors GK. $12 shipped and 3.5 oz.

Ontario CT1 Cutlass Machete. $23 shipped and 15 oz.

 

[Codger_64]

Welcome

May I suggest you do not invest a lot of money
yet
till you know what you want
Tools do not make the man

Simple is good
A $10 Mora
a $10 12" Machete
A $10 Pruning saw
A $10 10x10 tarp

These could last you a long long time

With these work on you skill set
Learn how to lay fires
How to cut simple small wood of small fires
The worry about fire rods and the like

This is a good start. If I remember right I started with a knife from the kitchen drawer, some cotton string from burlap bags, an old steel soup can and a broken saw blade. Seeing me use her kitchen knife eventually prompted Mom to have Dad buy me a first sheath knife. The first shotgun came that same Christmas. I would have been about eight.

 

[Inazone]

I'm very skeptical of you as well. I would think that someone with military background would carry better knives than some crappy novelty knife from Call of Duty.

Actually, I suspect that crappy novelty knives are very popular in military circles. Cheap knives that can be broken, lost or stolen without concern are bound to be.

 

[Phoynix]

First deployment
Kids show up with big knives, all extra attachments and tacticool equipment for rifles, bags, and what nots.

2nd week of first deployment, some Afgani kid finds a lot of big knives, gun attachments and what nots, by the side of the road along a UN foot patrol route.

At least according to my buddies who served.

 

[The cow]

Have to differentiate between day hike, overnights, extended.
I usually bring my Junglas and a folder for day hikes and overnights (unless its cold enough to req major wood processing)
With more experience, the more you'll learn what YOU really need.

My tip would be wary of gimmicks and wondertools. They're a drain on your pocket. Start cheap, learn what you need. When you know what you want, research it what you need/want. Save up for what you actually want, then get it.
On ebay, you can find a mora and a laplander for under 30 bucks. You will never find someone upset that they bought either of those.

 

[Mannlicher]

If I can't do all the tasks around camp with these three, then I just don't have the requisite skill set.