Busse basic 7, opinions.....

PeterPHWS said:
The edge you get with the Asym... Grind is the best feature .... takes half the time to sharpen .... and just stropping the convex side keeps it restored in half the time as well .... plus slicing or whittling wood just seems to polish the convex side if you're right handed... the edge as a result lasts ages and does not roll and almost self sharpens .... this is the grind Jerry used to cut 3000 bits of rope at Blade ... and the one Jennifer used to cut free hanging Manilla Hemp in one slice .... that should tell you the edge is a good feature ....
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Okay, that settles it, we're definitely related. :cool:
 
mhawg said:
Whose dangler sheath is that? (As if I didn't know...)
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Leatherman, but you already knew that :D


b7_2.jpg



B7_1.jpg


basic_sheath_1.jpg
 
WILL YORK said:
Okay, that settles it, we're definitely related. :cool:
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:D:D Yeah we definately see the same advantages in some of the Busse Range ... :cool:

The Asymetrical Grind is the one thing you cannot easily add to a Busse .... it needs to be done at the start in terms of being "off set" to enable the edge to be right in the middle of the spine as far as I can see .... convexing a blade is a doddle in comparison .... so the Basic's with this grind are "the one and only's" as far as I know .... and I am suprised that the secondary market prices have never gone a lot higher given the advantages this holds as evidenced by the records ... certainly I would love to know why the grind option did'nt continue on :confused:

Maybe people just did'nt pick up on it because it looks different?
 
PeterPHWS said:
:D:D Yeah we definately see the same advantages in some of the Busse Range ... :cool:

The Asymetrical Grind is the one thing you cannot easily add to a Busse .... it needs to be done at the start in terms of being "off set" to enable the edge to be right in the middle of the spine as far as I can see .... convexing a blade is a doddle in comparison .... so the Basic's with this grind are "the one and only's" as far as I know .... and I am suprised that the secondary market prices have never gone a lot higher given the advantages this holds as evidenced by the records ... certainly I would love to know why the grind option did'nt continue on :confused:

Maybe people just did'nt pick up on it because it looks different?
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Some of the SHBMs have the Asym edge as well.

And I know there are a couple of HOGFSHs that are sportin' it too. :D


.
 
PeterPHWS said:
Maybe people just did'nt pick up on it because it looks different?
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I didn't like them because they didn't feel sharp, if that makes any sense. It relied more on thin geometry then thin edge profile. You'd have a 14-16 degree edge on one side and a 35 degree edge on the other, and it just came off as bizzare in the hand. If you tried to increase the 35 degree edge to 21 or less you ended up with a lopsided normal v that didn't have the same advantages as the asymmetrical... it was like a way of trying to salvage cutting ability out of a "robust" edge profile.

at least those were my initial feelings on it. I changed any knife I used over to v shortly after receiving it.
 
Last Visible Canary said:
I didn't like them because they didn't feel sharp, if that makes any sense. It relied more on thin geometry then thin edge profile. You'd have a 14-16 degree edge on one side and a 35 degree edge on the other, and it just came off as bizzare in the hand. If you tried to increase the 35 degree edge to 21 or less you ended up with a lopsided normal v that didn't have the same advantages as the asymmetrical... it was like a way of trying to salvage cutting ability out of a "robust" edge profile.

at least those were my initial feelings on it. I changed any knife I used over to v shortly after receiving it.
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Interesting .... I was told mine was still with the factory edge when I got it and whilst it felt dull it was infact shaving sharp .... did arm hairs no problem .... then to just "tweak it" .... I stropped the convex edge using Green Chrome Compound and ran the V edge over once with my Sharpmaker to remove any "wire" edge from the stropping on one side only ... it was then hair "popping" sharp .... and you could feel it .... it's strange but old Infi edges often don't feel crisp and sharp ... and yet they actually "are" ....

The old factory edge was a lot sharper than my "fingers" were indicating .... it is a funny thing that with Infi .... the edges on a lot of steels dull with simply lying in a draw ... Infi is no exception on the "feel" of dullness .... but when put to "hairs" or "paper" it is a lot sharper than you think ....

It must be the "Stainless" aspect .... my RMD can take a lovely sharp edge but dulls with time and is actually "duller" when applied to cutting .... ditto O1 Tool Steel .... that steel can take an awesome shaving edge and feel it too ... but soon seems to degrade over time ... whereas my S30V Spyderco UKPK and the Hossom I have in the same steel fair a lot better and feel it too when checking ... CPM 154 is not bad either .... so it must be some reaction to the Air ....
 
One of the best tests of cutting efficiency I know is to double a 1/2" sisal rope and hold the loop in one hand, place a blade in the loop with the other hand and pull-cut through the loop. The combination of cutting against the hard fibers of the rope with no room to "saw", together with the tendency of the rope to bind the knife as the loop tightens on the walls of the cut, makes this a very difficult maneuver to complete with one stroke. I test every new "high-performance" blade I obtain this way.

The best blade I have ever had at this is a Basic 5 on which I slightly thinned out the convex side of the asymmetrical grind with a low-tension (somewhat slack) belt. The small bit of edge that was ground away by the belt left the flat side of the edge bevel at almost "zero" off the primary straight grind, with just a micro-bevel remaining on that side. The resulting edge has almost no drag on the flat side and a smoothed, shallow convex bevel on the other which blends into the primary grind on that side with almost no shoulder. I can pull-cut through 1/2" sisal with this blade, using one easy, no-strain stroke every time, and do that over and over and over without re-sharpening. When I do re-sharpen, it's by simply drawing the edge a few times across a ceramic rod with edge trailing, as the original instructions from Busse show to do for the asymmetrical grind.

I've had one knife that was equal to this Basic 5 at that maneuver, a dendritic cobalt blade on a modified chef's knife by David Boye with .005" edge thickness. Impressive cutting with the Boye, but that blade could not begin to stand up to the impact punishment and torquing this Basic 5 will take in stride.

In 2003, while emailing with Jerry on the subject of what "sharp" means to different people and in different contexts, I lamented the discontinuation of the asymmetrical edge. I don't think he'll mind my sharing his response, as follows:

"I really appreciate your views on my asymmetrical edge as well. The general public has turned, what I consider to be a major advancement, into an unwanted orphan of sorts. The problem that I didn't forsee was having to overturn everything that folks knew about resharpening. Those that followed the simple directions have been thrilled with it, but the majority of Busse buyers just went at that edge like it was a regular one and they have been fairly disappointed. Bummer. I am now being forced to go back to a regular symmetric edge in order to quiet the natives."
 
PeterPHWS said:
Interesting .... I was told mine was still with the factory edge when I got it and whilst it felt dull it was infact shaving sharp .... did arm hairs no problem .... then to just "tweak it" .... I stropped the convex edge using Green Chrome Compound and ran the V edge over once with my Sharpmaker to remove any "wire" edge from the stropping on one side only ... it was then hair "popping" sharp ....
Click to expand...

I can get a 90 angle shaving sharp by polishing it and keeping it crisp. certainly not hair popping sharp, but anyone whose handled a freshly machined square edge knows how dangerous they can be.

stainless creates a chromium oxide on the surface which passifies it against rust, where o1 creates a iron oxide layer (rust). both of which can definitely take off a hint of surface layer necessary for that ultra fine polished edge feel.

I'm not saying asymmetrical isn't sharp or that it's bad, it's just weird. I understand chisel and I understand v, but the asymmetrical combination of flat v and convex chisel boggled my mind so much that I changed it to set right the universe around me (or perhaps set back). It makes logical sense to me that the thinner geometry directly behind the smaller more obtuse v bevel is good for cutting performance, while the overall thickness behind the larger more acute convex bevel maintains a high degree of edge strength, while giving the user an easy and fast method of sharpening. But in the hand of someone whose mind screams "I DON'T WANNA CHANGE!!!!" it made my skin crawl.

one of these days I'll have to modify a knife to have it and then use it for a year to get past that initial sense of strangeness.
 
WILL YORK said:
One of the best tests of cutting efficiency I know is to double a 1/2" sisal rope and hold the loop in one hand, place a blade in the loop with the other hand and pull-cut through the loop. The combination of cutting against the hard fibers of the rope with no room to "saw", together with the tendency of the rope to bind the knife as the loop tightens on the walls of the cut, makes this a very difficult maneuver to complete with one stroke. I test every new "high-performance" blade I obtain this way.

The best blade I have ever had at this is a Basic 5 on which I slightly thinned out the convex side of the asymmetrical grind with a low-tension (somewhat slack) belt. The small bit of edge that was ground away by the belt left the flat side of the edge bevel at almost "zero" off the primary straight grind, with just a micro-bevel remaining on that side. The resulting edge has almost no drag on the flat side and a smoothed, shallow convex bevel on the other which blends into the primary grind on that side with almost no shoulder. I can pull-cut through 1/2" sisal with this blade, using one easy, no-strain stroke every time, and do that over and over and over without re-sharpening. When I do re-sharpen, it's by simply drawing the edge a few times across a ceramic rod with edge trailing, as the original instructions from Busse show to do for the asymmetrical grind.

I've had one knife that was equal to this Basic 5 at that maneuver, a dendritic cobalt blade on a modified chef's knife by David Boye with .005" edge thickness. Impressive cutting with the Boye, but that blade could not begin to stand up to the impact punishment and torquing this Basic 5 will take in stride.

In 2003, while emailing with Jerry on the subject of what "sharp" means to different people and in different contexts, I lamented the discontinuation of the asymmetrical edge. I don't think he'll mind my sharing his response, as follows:

"I really appreciate your views on my asymmetrical edge as well. The general public has turned, what I consider to be a major advancement, into an unwanted orphan of sorts. The problem that I didn't forsee was having to overturn everything that folks knew about resharpening. Those that followed the simple directions have been thrilled with it, but the majority of Busse buyers just went at that edge like it was a regular one and they have been fairly disappointed. Bummer. I am now being forced to go back to a regular symmetric edge in order to quiet the natives."
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Interesting Stuff :thumbup: I figured there was more of a "hearts and minds" reason than something wrong with the grind ....

We will have to stop this thread here :eek: I am still looking for a smooth coated Basic 5 to go with my Basic 9.... and all we are doing is talking up the price :D
 
Last Visible Canary said:
I can get a 90 angle shaving sharp by polishing it and keeping it crisp. certainly not hair popping sharp, but anyone whose handled a freshly machined square edge knows how dangerous they can be.

stainless creates a chromium oxide on the surface which passifies it against rust, where o1 creates a iron oxide layer (rust). both of which can definitely take off a hint of surface layer necessary for that ultra fine polished edge feel.

I'm not saying asymmetrical isn't sharp or that it's bad, it's just weird. I understand chisel and I understand v, but the asymmetrical combination of flat v and convex chisel boggled my mind so much that I changed it to set right the universe around me (or perhaps set back). It makes logical sense to me that the thinner geometry directly behind the smaller more obtuse v bevel is good for cutting performance, while the overall thickness behind the larger more acute convex bevel maintains a high degree of edge strength, while giving the user an easy and fast method of sharpening. But in the hand of someone whose mind screams "I DON'T WANNA CHANGE!!!!" it made my skin crawl.

one of these days I'll have to modify a knife to have it and then use it for a year to get past that initial sense of strangeness.
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Can you not turn your Basic 9 back to being Assymetrical ? Or would this involve a loss of a lot of steel :confused:
 
PeterPHWS said:
I am still looking for a smooth coated Basic 5 to go with my Basic 9....
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My experience with several Basics has been that Jerry went to a thicker edge geometry about the same time he went from smooth to crinkle coat. My several smooth-coat Basic 9's mic'd out around .050" at the edge, for example, while my crinkle-coat B9's were over the .070" mark. So for the better cutter, I'd look for a smooth coat (the B5 I mention above is a smoothie). For impact resistance, crinkle might be a little more durable--in terms of factory edge, at least.

Hopefully, the above description has muddied the waters enough to negate any upward price pressure. :D
 
PeterPHWS said:
Can you not turn your Basic 9 back to being Assymetrical ? Or would this involve a loss of a lot of steel :confused:
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I sold the ones in the photo around 2005, and then the last one I owned I sold in late 2006. With a very cheap custom shopped sar5, a msrp tank buster, and a standard machined scalled nmfbm I have no need or desire to revisit the basic series. they are fantastic knives, just not the design elements I'm looking for now.
 
WILL YORK said:
I agree with LVC that the B7 is not as agile for utility purposes as a B5 and is not as good a chopper as a B9. The value of the B7 to me is when you walk away from a vehicle or horse, carrying your gear in a pack, and expect to be gone for awhile in rough country. The B7 is not much heavier than a B5, is MUCH lighter than any full-tang knife even approaching its strength, and offers all I need in a survival/heavy camp knife. Together with a good-size folder, my knife needs are well-served with no superfluous weight--a VERY welcome solution for this situation.
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I agree! I like the entire Basic series, but the B7 is my favorite - it has great balance. The B7 is one of my all-time favorite Busse knives! :thumbup:

Gene
 
I have one of hte aforementioned asym SHBM's. :)

And I foolishly let a smooth-coat B5 slip thru my hands. That was, hands down, the sharpest knife I've ever held. Factory edge was frightening. My arm hair would retract at the sight of it. LOL
 
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