Busse CGFBM Vs Trail Master

[GrinderMcgee]

[youtube]3Y1VGhxQ0-s[/youtube]

Very brief as far as comparisons go but I have experience with both these knives. Probably the two best examples of all-around big 'ole knives out there.

Where the Busse really shines in wood chipping and limbing is the handle ergonomics. Greater momentum can be generated without as much stress to my grip and I can choke up in the choil for shorter hacking and chopping strokes. The coating is also tough as nails. Not a lot of wear for as much as this one has been through.

The Trail Master, on the other hand, is almost ten ounces lighter. It carries much easier than the Busse due to its overall smaller size and there is no question I can swing this knife much longer than the Busse. I find the difference in bite and performance to be minimal with the edge going of course to the CGFBM hit for hit. The thickness of the blade on the TM also makes it split kindling better for me. The grip is not the greatest so I like gloves with this one.

My comments in the video are pretty subjective but just opinion. You may well feel differently and that is just fine by me. One thing for sure, of all my outdoor bowies, these two are my favorite companions.

 

[Bigfattyt]

I carried a SanMaiIII trailmaster for about a decade. It was replaced by the FBMLE.

I definately wish I had a lighter Basic 9, or a battlerat or dogfather just for the ligter weight. Even the BWM is still a quite a bit heavier than those choices (or the trailmaster).

I would still have it, if it had a resiprine c handle. The krayton just was not comfortable on my bare hands after extended use. I passed it on to another user.

Just could not match the cutting/shearing power of the FBMLE. Part of the issue was the better handle ergo's of the FBMLE resist twisting in the hand better. A better handle on the CS would have helped. I would like to try a cut off between a Nachez bowie and the fbmle. Something with more heft, and a better handle would be a fairer contest. Obviously there was a big difference in the weight of the two knives.

I also really loved the full convex grind on the CS. I think if I had known how easy to sharpen a convex edge is, I would have kept the CS. I sold it, and after that, I learned to sharpen a convex (in this test, the CS was a standard V edge. It would have done a bit better with a convex edge, but the FBMLE was a v edge at that time as well, and now it is convex).

 

[Ankerson]

Nice review.

 

[Jac The Slayer]

i have an sk-5 trailmaster and i like it. my only problem with it is that the handle is uncomforable during extended use and i feel the blade is too narrow. I would love to put a regulator bowie handle on it and widen the blade to 2". that would be great. Dan, Are you listening?

 

[Liu Kang]

if you like them lighter and thinner, you can always get the bushwacker... pick a knife with the specs you prefer...

 

[Whiskey River]

Just curious.... where did the Trail Master come in on Field & Stream's Top Twenty Best Knives Ever Made? Does anyone have that article?

 

[Ankerson]

Just curious.... where did the Trail Master come in on Field & Stream's Top Twenty Best Knives Ever Made? Does anyone have that article?

Not sure, but I have had 4 of them over the years and they are great blades, just a little light for heavy chopping, but still a nice blade for the money.

 

[DWRW]

That was a reasonably fair review if you point out (as you did) what is important to yourself: smaller limbs and lighter carry.

As for the actual chopping segment, there didn't "appear" much difference in function in chopping a couple of simple limbs such as you did - and that is fair and applicable to "your needs and uses".

To be critical is not very relavent to your uses, so don't mind me pointing this out too much, but the FBM did appear to chop through a slightly larger limb.

And from the pictures, it appears the FBM has a factory V grind edge vs. the Trail Masters (appears to be the San Mai version) has the (better for chopping IMO) full convex edge.

So, slightly more work for the FBM and better edge on the Trail Master = sort of balances factors out compared to each other.

The Mass of the FBM generally provides it with some advantages of POWER in chopping. But, it would have to have a comparable edge to be fair. And more chopping over a longer period to take much of a lead. In a smaller 2" or so limb, the differences will be negligable. But, again, as you point out, if not chopping a lot, then an extra chop or three isn't ANY big deal and not worth carrying so much extra weight - I agree.


I have no interest in lugging a 27 ounce blade PLUS the weight of a LARGE sheath needed to hold it when I am out on a trail. And, if needing to do a LOT of chopping (which I don't either), the heavier FBM blades do tend to tire you with prolonged chopping. I would rather have a lighter BR or DFLE for their much better power to weight ratio. Or even a lighter machete that provides a LOT of power.

For me, I have pretty well decided that at about 20 ounces or so is where I top out. (Maybe 22 ounces with the Bushwacker and Full height grind FSH being about 22 ounces). But, if it weighs more than a good machete, I have to start questioning its return value for carry...... ?

Personally, I find the Res-C handles on the Battle Rat and DFLE to be significantly more comfortable in use over the Trail Masters rather agressive handle. I suppose the Trail Master was designed with a bit of "Combat" in mind and the very agressive handle might improve grip if needed for short high torque uses - But, the "Trail" use in the name defines it a bit otherwise.

If not for the agressive texture on the Trail Master, its simple tapered handle works quite well.

Interesting to see the new Regulator's handle. I have the TT edition.
Personally, I don't like double-quillion guards and feel they are more of a fighter guard than "Trail" guard and I personally prefer "Trail" use knives and have no real use for a fighter. That said, the new Regulators handle is AWESOME and feel WAY better in the hand than My San Mai Trailmaster's handle. I look forward to seeing the new Res-C Regulator's handle on future larger blades. *** But, I hope to see future versions with the old finger choil design like on the Battle Rat and Camp Tramp - although, I would prefer to keep choils close in to the handle. I think it would be better to have that extra steel in front of the lower portion of the Res-C guard. Just sayin.


I don't think it is entirely "UN"-fair to compare the Trail Master directly to the FBM.

But, I do think it would be MORE fair to consider the Swamp Rat Battle Rat or the Scrap Yard Dog Father LE as a more direct and applicable comparison to the Trail Master as they are more similar in length and weight and in all having a hidden tang type handle in a rubbery type handle.

Even the Swamp Rat M9LE which has a heavier G10 full tang handle weighs a lot closer to the Trail Master and a more fair comparison IMO.

The Bushwacker is about as close as a Busse blade gets, but the Bushwacker has a thinner blade, longer blade by about .75" and still weighs about 4 ounces more.

Most of the Busse Mistresses are BEASTS! Awesome to hold and admire and quite powerful. But, just more than I prefer to carry and therefore, just don't use. So, I have sold mine.

If just a "Camp" use tool and not to be carried, I prefer a good axe, machete, folding saw or bow saw and having a BUNCH of money left-over for knives I can justify carrying.



M9LE……………………….. = 19.35 ounces; .23” thick; 9.125” blade; 14.875” oal

Cold Steel – Trail Master = 18.15 ounces; .300 thick; 9.5” blade; 14.625” oal

Battle Rat……………. = 16.5 ounces; .250” thick; 9.375” blade; 14.4375” oal
Dog Father LE…….. = 17.0 ounces; .250” thick; 10.0625” blade; 15.125” oal
Dog Father………….. = 20.1 ounces; .275” thick; 10” blade; 15.125” oal

Fallkniven – Tor……= 18.0 ounces; .275” thick; 10” blade; 15.25” oal

Bushwacker Mistress = 22.0 ounces; .1875” thick; 10.25” blade; 16.25” oal

FBM CG……………….. = 27.1 ounces; 0.25” thick; 10.0” blade; 16.0” oal
FBM LE……………….. = 30.0 ounces; 0.312” thick; 10.0” blade; 16.0” oal
FFBM……………………. = 31.4 ounces; 0.32” thick; 10.0” blade; 16.0” oal
NMFBM……………….. = 29.5 ounces; .25” thick; 11.3125” blade; 17.5” oal

BRKT - Golok………. = 17.5 ounces; 0.210” thick; 11.5” blade; 17.5” oal

Tramontina machete = 17.0 ounces; 0.084” thick; 17.625” blade; 22.9375” oal
Condor – El Salvador = 22.0 ounces; 0.12” thick; 17.9375” blade; 23.125” oal


Other "Camp / Trail" slightly smaller chopping use Busse-kin weights for comparison:

Camp Tramp.................= 14.5 ounces; .236" thick; 7.325" blade; 12.5" oal
Yard Guard...................= 16.0 ounces; .277" thick; 7.25" blade; 12.4" oal
SOD (Son of Dogfather) = 15.7 ounces; .25” thick; 7.5” blade; 12.5” oal
Regulator TT (Test Team)= 14.65 ounces; .333” thick; 7.5” blade; 13.0” oal
Regulator (Military overrun)= 15.8 ounces; .333” thick; 7.5” blade; 13.0” oal


Ratweiler (orig.)……. = 20.1 ounces; .25” thick; 7.5” blade; 13” oal
Chopweiler - Micarta = 19.1 ounces; .25” thick; 7.5625” blade; 13.1875” oal

NMSFNO………………….= 21.5 ounces; .25” thick; 8.25” blade; 14.0” oal

FSH (full flat grind)..= 22.0 ounces; .27” thick; 8.1875” blade; 14.4” oal


.

 

[GrinderMcgee]

The Busse was a CGFBM, not a FSH. All that was really stated was that considering the extra size and weight of the Busse, the difference in performance for limbing and smaller diameter wood is just not in proportion.

 

[Longknife3]

Oops... Deleted

 

[Joshua J.]

I bet if you put a full convex grind on the CGFBM the Trailmaster would lose its appeal.
I prefer a heavy knife that bites deep. (when I'm not using a pole saw that eats 7" limbs for breakfast!)

 

[tanto boy]

Why are we even talking about the trail crapster?

I had one.

Hello busse. (NMSFNO) My first

Goodbye cold steel crap. They went to the trash where they belong.

IMO you can't and shouldn't compare any Busse with a cold steel blade of any type.

Call me a hard ass but cold steel knives suck!

 

[Bigfattyt]

That was a reasonably fair review if you point out (as you did) what is important to yourself: smaller limbs and lighter carry.

As for the actual chopping segment, there didn't "appear" much difference in function in chopping a couple of simple limbs such as you did - and that is fair and applicable to "your needs and uses".

To be critical is not very relavent to your uses, so don't mind me pointing this out too much, but the FSH did appear to chop through a slightly larger limb.

And from the pictures, it appears the FSH has a factory V grind edge vs. the Trail Masters (appears to be the San Mai version) has the (better for chopping IMO) full convex edge.

So, slightly more work for the FSH and better edge on the Trail Master = sort of balances factors out compared to each other.

The Mass of the FSH generally provides it with some advantages of POWER in chopping. But, it would have to have a comparable edge to be fair. And more chopping over a longer period to take much of a lead. In a smaller 2" or so limb, the differences will be negligable. But, again, as you point out, if not chopping a lot, then an extra chop or three isn't ANY big deal and not worth carrying so much extra weight - I agree.


I have no interest in lugging a 27 ounce blade PLUS the weight of a LARGE sheath needed to hold it when I am out on a trail. And, if needing to do a LOT of chopping (which I don't either), the heavier FSH blades do tend to tire you with prolonged chopping. I would rather have a lighter BR or DFLE for their much better power to weight ratio. Or even a lighter machete that provides a LOT of power.

For me, I have pretty well decided that at about 20 ounces or so is where I top out. (Maybe 22 ounces with the Bushwacker and Full height grind FSH being about 22 ounces). But, if it weighs more than a good machete, I have to start questioning its return value for carry...... ?

Personally, I find the Res-C handles on the Battle Rat and DFLE to be significantly more comfortable in use over the Trail Masters rather agressive handle. I suppose the Trail Master was designed with a bit of "Combat" in mind and the very agressive handle might improve grip if needed for short high torque uses - But, the "Trail" use in the name defines it a bit otherwise.

If not for the agressive texture on the Trail Master, its simple tapered handle works quite well.

Interesting to see the new Regulator's handle. I have the TT edition.
Personally, I don't like double-quillion guards and feel they are more of a fighter guard than "Trail" guard and I personally prefer "Trail" use knives and have no real use for a fighter. That said, the new Regulators handle is AWESOME and feel WAY better in the hand than My San Mai Trailmaster's handle. I look forward to seeing the new Res-C Regulator's handle on future larger blades. *** But, I hope to see future versions with the old finger choil design like on the Battle Rat and Camp Tramp - although, I would prefer to keep choils close in to the handle. I think it would be better to have that extra steel in front of the lower portion of the Res-C guard. Just sayin.


I don't think it is entirely "UN"-fair to compare the Trail Master directly to the FSH.

But, I do think it would be MORE fair to consider the Swamp Rat Battle Rat or the Scrap Yard Dog Father LE as a more direct and applicable comparison to the Trail Master as they are more similar in length and weight and in all having a hidden tang type handle in a rubbery type handle.

Even the Swamp Rat M9LE which has a heavier G10 full tang handle weighs a lot closer to the Trail Master and a more fair comparison IMO.

The Bushwacker is about as close as a Busse blade gets, but the Bushwacker has a thinner blade, longer blade by about .75" and still weighs about 4 ounces more.

Most of the Busse Mistresses are BEASTS! Awesome to hold and admire and quite powerful. But, just more than I prefer to carry and therefore, just don't use. So, I have sold mine.

If just a "Camp" use tool and not to be carried, I prefer a good axe, machete, folding saw or bow saw and having a BUNCH of money left-over for knives I can justify carrying.



M9LE……………………….. = 19.35 ounces; .23” thick; 9.125” blade; 14.875” oal

Cold Steel – Trail Master = 18.15 ounces; .300 thick; 9.5” blade; 14.625” oal

Battle Rat……………. = 16.5 ounces; .250” thick; 9.375” blade; 14.4375” oal
Dog Father LE…….. = 17.0 ounces; .250” thick; 10.0625” blade; 15.125” oal
Dog Father………….. = 20.1 ounces; .275” thick; 10” blade; 15.125” oal

Fallkniven – Tor……= 18.0 ounces; .275” thick; 10” blade; 15.25” oal

Bushwacker Mistress = 22.0 ounces; .1875” thick; 10.25” blade; 16.25” oal

FBM CG……………….. = 27.1 ounces; 0.25” thick; 10.0” blade; 16.0” oal
FBM LE……………….. = 30.0 ounces; 0.312” thick; 10.0” blade; 16.0” oal
FFBM……………………. = 31.4 ounces; 0.32” thick; 10.0” blade; 16.0” oal
NMFBM……………….. = 29.5 ounces; .25” thick; 11.3125” blade; 17.5” oal

BRKT - Golok………. = 17.5 ounces; 0.210” thick; 11.5” blade; 17.5” oal

Tramontina machete = 17.0 ounces; 0.084” thick; 17.625” blade; 22.9375” oal
Condor – El Salvador = 22.0 ounces; 0.12” thick; 17.9375” blade; 23.125” oal


Other "Camp / Trail" slightly smaller chopping use Busse-kin weights for comparison:

Camp Tramp.................= 14.5 ounces; .236" thick; 7.325" blade; 12.5" oal
Yard Guard...................= 16.0 ounces; .277" thick; 7.25" blade; 12.4" oal
SOD (Son of Dogfather) = 15.7 ounces; .25” thick; 7.5” blade; 12.5” oal
Regulator TT (Test Team)= 14.65 ounces; .333” thick; 7.5” blade; 13.0” oal
Regulator (Military overrun)= 15.8 ounces; .333” thick; 7.5” blade; 13.0” oal


Ratweiler (orig.)……. = 20.1 ounces; .25” thick; 7.5” blade; 13” oal
Chopweiler - Micarta = 19.1 ounces; .25” thick; 7.5625” blade; 13.1875” oal

NMSFNO………………….= 21.5 ounces; .25” thick; 8.25” blade; 14.0” oal

FSH (full flat grind)..= 22.0 ounces; .27” thick; 8.1875” blade; 14.4” oal


.

Nice line up of weights and measurements there.

I This just goes to prove that Busse needs to do a run of Basics with Infi!!!! A basic 10 would be just what the doctor ordered. In fact, they need to do a basic muck with a blade 9-10 inches long, with a height from edge to spine of 3 inches, and 1/4 inch thick and a slightly bigger handle.

 

[Ankerson]

The Busse was a CGFBM, not a FSH. All that was really stated was that considering the extra size and weight of the Busse, the difference in performance for limbing and smaller diameter wood is just not in proportion.

I found the opposite to be true for me, before I sent in my CGFBM to the SPA I did a lot of chopping with it and the TM and there was a very noticeable difference in chopping performance between the two.

The TM is closer to the BWM in performance than the CGFBM, but then mine weighs 28.4 oz.

 

[kdstrick]

I love choppin' vids! Very cool.

Keep up the chopping and beating for a couple days, or weeks. You will find the the INFI will get less sharp.... and then, strangely... seem sharper again. In a live test, Jerry sliced over 2770 pieces of 1" hemp rope. They ran out of rope and the knife still shaved.

Beat that Busse... don't sharpen it and keep beating... your CGFBM will laugh.

Welcome to the madness!

 

[Bigfattyt]

Why are we even talking about the trail crapster?

I had one.

Hello busse. (NMSFNO) My first

Goodbye cold steel crap. They went to the trash where they belong.

IMO you can't and shouldn't compare any Busse with a cold steel blade of any type.

Call me a hard ass but cold steel knives suck!

CS makes some more than decent knives. The only thing I did not like about the Trailmaster in SanMaiIII was the handle. Other than that it was a great knife.

I own Busse. I carry Busse every day. I still have CS knives. I still have CS hawks. I still have CS throwers. I still have CS folders.

Most are a very solid working knives. The price of the laminated blades are too high, but then again, order a laminated blade from Falkniven and they are just as expensive (although I would much rather have a stacked leather handle on the CS trailmaster, like the one Falkniven uses).

My most used knife right now is a CS pocket Bushman (the newer version without the lock issue). It is cheap, and Thin, and light and has a super strong lock. The steel is a very very basic stainless. No super steel, not even really middle of the road steel. But I carry that as a companion to my Busse EDC for two reasons. It is thin, and it FOLDS (that was a not too subtle hint that Jerry needs to release an infi folder).

The big downer about CS is the advertising. They make fun stuff (spears, throwing knives, throwing hawks, machetes, all kinds of stuff). They just need some one in advertising who is a bit toned down.

Just saying. I am an infi lover, but that does not mean I have to hate on anyone. Or think that just because I own Infi, everything else is crap.

When you get into their more expensive knives I steer my friends elsewhere. But for people looking for cheaper stuff.........

Everyone has to start with something, and unless they are very very lucky, they do not start with Infi. If it is sharp, and will cut something, it will work for someone, until they discover better (some never will move on from those 15 dollar cheapo knives at the gas station, or sporting goods store).



Sorry to get off topic. Lots of people just find "Infi or nothing" or "if it ain't Infi it's crap" to be a bit off putting.



Oh, if you are going to throw any CS products away, drop me a line. There might be quite a few I would take off your hands (for free, of course. I might even pay shipping, if you were just throwing it away).

 

[Newazzkikr]

Why are we even talking about the trail crapster?

I had one.

Hello busse. (NMSFNO) My first

Goodbye cold steel crap. They went to the trash where they belong.

IMO you can't and shouldn't compare any Busse with a cold steel blade of any type.

Call me a hard ass but cold steel knives suck!

Well, some people don't like Cold Steel knives, but they are definitely not a crap and they don't belong to trash. I'm not going to talk about their new products cause I know everyone here knows about them, but they look great and also perform great. If it is a large chopper like Trail Master, or tactical fix blade, or folder, or the chepest ones like Bushman or GI Tanto, they all perform EXCEPTIONALLY and they don't deserve to be mocked by you like this.

 

[GrinderMcgee]

Hey Whiskey, Top 20

Beat that Busse... don't sharpen it and keep beating... your CGFBM will laugh.

This is why I posted the vid in the Busse forum. The Hogs aren't shy about hard use.

Of course each choice has its compromises. The TM has the perfect size and style for me(although I wouldn't be angry if it were 20 oz). The Busse has infini steel and an equally solid warranty behind the blade.

Lovin' the Basic 9-10" idea Fatty. Been on the hunt for an original 9 forever.

This one's for you Tanto boy.

[youtube]FuyuOxvkinI[/youtube]

Find me a Busse that can perform better, be worn IWB all day and cost similarly and I'll abandon the "Dark Side".

 

[philwar]

I own a CS Trailmaster in SM3. It's an awesome knife. I also own Busse FBMLE. Even more awesome, but also a lot heavier and bulkier. They each have their own place. If I was forced to choose, I'd take the Busse, but there are definitely times when the TM comes with me and not the Busse.
I've not used my BWM yet, so I don't have any personal experience with how it compares to the Trailmaster.

 

[kurodrago]

GrinderMcgee
Busse CGFBM Vs Trail Master isn't reasonably fair review.
Busse NMSFNO VS Trail Master will be a reasonably fair review.
Both conves edges....plus almost the same weight and lengt.
The misfortune on handle of the trail master will tell a different story