Busse CGFBM Vs Trail Master

[DWRW]

That photo has been floating around on the net forever.

Yeah, I think it has been posted multiple times over the last many years.

That is also the only photo I have even seen of a broken RS, never seen one of a Broken TM.

+ 1, That is the only RS I have seen fail and I have not seen a TM fail yet Carbon V or San Mai.

Not sure what was done to that RS to make it fail, but it was a lot I am sure.

Hard to say. There could have just been a simple bubble flaw near the break or a slight heat-treat issue near the front of the tang. I seem to remember people speculating that the "Cold" weather (no irony intended) might have been a factor. Or maybe it just locked up tight in a bad knot and was pried on beyond its limits. I have seen some logs with twists and knots lock up on axes, wedges and mauls EXTREMELY tight and took a LOT of work to get them out. I could see were a locked blade could have the handle torqued enough to break. But, I don't know what happened.

I still say though, that the way that RS broke, it would have taken MORE effort to break a hidden tang Busse with the way the Busse tangs are reinforced much more.

Cold Steel Carbon V or San Mai may be tough enough for MOST uses as a steel. I honestly believe it can do most chopping and camp type chores.

But, I think most of us here agree, understand and appreciate that INFI and SR-77 is easily tougher. So is SR-101.

Still, aside from the Carbon V used in the above picture, the design flaw of the "squared" ricasso to tang transition just seems like a very likely area that would have failed because of "design" and that if reinforced better such as how the Busse and kin hidden tangs are designed would have at very least taken significantly more force and effort to cause the knife to fail. Even if with a lesser steel than Busse uses.

I know Busses are stronger and the steel is better.

Agreed. And I think certain "Design" improvements offered by Busse are worth noting as well.

I still like the convex blade shape and weight proportions of the TM. And I like that it is SATIN. But, I REALLY like Busse and kin steel and those extra little details in design that add even FURTHER durability of the knife as a whole. :thumbup:

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[GrinderMcgee]

Knife weights and balance as well as design are personal preferences. For some, the additional 9 ounces between a TM and a Battle Mistress can be too much extra to deal with on a long hike. It never bothered me much but I can appreciate the value of a lite-weight cutter for a day hike.

Let's drink!:thumbup:

Jerry

Mr Busse, hello and thank you for your comments. It makes me smile to see your remark about a 1 lb knife being light-weight. I can only assume it is this mindset that leads you to overbuild and methodically engineer the Mistress knives to their to max potential as hand tools.

Ok, back to putting things in perspective. Even for someone interested enough to inquire, I pull out the Trail Master and their jaw literally drops every time. For all but the most enthusiastic, using a $300 knife for camp chores and brush pile maintenance is beyond understanding. For those who are invested, in many cases, a TM or Busse sees more shelf time than anything else. As for the boards, one can speculate who is a serious user vs what I call a Busseketeer or CS "fanboy". So the "most" of us that are having this discussion are, in fact, not so numerous. That narrows the "significant differences" of the hardware being discussed into quite a thin margin, even considering things like stainless vs high carbon etc...since both knives are tools for obsessed nutcases like the bowie guys here(no offense). Nothing wrong with being a fanboy either but it is just the reality as I see it.

Now that we are back to earth. DWRW, excellent additions sir. I have seen some of those pictures floating about before and was aware of the different hidden tang arrangements, but thank you for organizing and sharing them visually. Do you do handle mods yourself?

I must concede that the Busse knives themselves are engineered to the utmost detail. Of course my somewhat limited experience also leaves me little basis for argument about the edge holding of the Infini steel as well. How could I disagree with a man (Jerry) who has spent years refining his method and testing the end result? Easy, I cannot, and there is no need for it.

Without getting too specific because I do not wish to disrespect other brands here in a comparison. I have sought out many other large bowies which have been produced in the recent years in any available quantity and evaluated them for myself(to my own intended purpose of course). To me there are two which stand a significant height above the rest. These are the Trail Master, a highly available, extremely functional and well-rounded design for the working man like myself. And the Busse Battle Mistress, a super-elite chopper with material capabilities second to none. If your needs in a knife cannot be satisfied by the former, than there is only one option remaining.

To restate for anyone who might be browsing. I prefer the Trail Master knife for its total package styling(including weight) and balance, the level of finish on the blade and edge, its availability and cost. I sought out the CGFBM for its superior specialized design, and tough as nails reputation and warranty. Hopefully the above comments are not so subjective as to lose any audience here.

I think I'll take you up on that drink now Jerry. Bottoms up!

P.S. It is worth mention that the Fallkniven Thor bowie is strikingly similar to a SMIII TM. But the tip is noticeably thinner and the price is about $100 bucks more. Preference strikes again.

 

[Jerry Busse]

That is also the only photo I have even seen of a broken RS, never seen one of a Broken TM.

I know Busses are stronger and the steel is better.

You have seen a pic of a broken Trail Master . . .. . . . . . .

Check out post #30. . . The two pieces of the broken tang were put back together for the pic. You can see the crack at the arrow!

Jerry

 

[Ankerson]

You have seen a pic of a broken Trail Master . . .. . . . . . .

Check out post #30. . . The two pieces of the broken tang were put back together for the pic. You can see the crack at the arrow!

Jerry

Jerry,

Good catch.

Didn't notice it before.

I stand corrected.

 

[Lycosa]

In his PJ's. ^^^

 

[GrinderMcgee]

Ok, I must ask. What was the force which caused this knifes (Carbon V?) failure and guard damage?

 

[Lycosa]

Excellent question!
Knife abuse has reached the "insanity point!"

 

[Ankerson]

Ok, I must ask. What was the force which caused this knifes (Carbon V?) failure and guard damage?

I would say whatever it was, it was a lot because I never broke any of my TM's and I really beat on them I can tell you.

The TM is no joke, it's a very strong knife.

 

[Picksmith]

I thought the discussion was not CS vs. Busse? It's the one specific knife compared to the other in this one video, right? The CGFBM did chop a log a tiny bit larger, but for a knife so much larger, shouldn't it have a significantly greater chopping power than the smaller blade? I didn't see it. It looked like throwing the TM was fast and easy, but you were putting some hard stank on the busse and it wasn't delivering results comparable to the extra effort. I want to see this one done again!

 

[Evolute]

Ok, I must ask. What was the force which caused this knifes (Carbon V?) failure and guard damage?

If I'm recalling correctly, that photo comes from a test and comparison of the Trail Master and the Basic 9, conducted by Mike Turber, about 10 years ago. You can probably still find it, online, somewhere, and read all the details.

 

[J. Oeser]

GrinderMcgee, I think you make a valid point. Essentially, we are discussing knives that are engineered to the extreme, that your average person has never seen or imagined before. I think Jerry put it best when he said that INFI steel is far superior and the particular design of a knife falls in the personal opinion/preference category. A TM would probably do the job just fine but an equally sized and shaped Busse would just do it better.

 

[Jerry Busse]

I thought the discussion was not CS vs. Busse? It's the one specific knife compared to the other in this one video, right? The CGFBM did chop a log a tiny bit larger, but for a knife so much larger, shouldn't it have a significantly greater chopping power than the smaller blade? I didn't see it. It looked like throwing the TM was fast and easy, but you were putting some hard stank on the busse and it wasn't delivering results comparable to the extra effort. I want to see this one done again!

Here's the bottom line. Given equal edges, the Battle Mistress will spank the Trail Master ALL day long. This has been proven many, many, many, many, times in the past. This used to be a hot topic in the Late 1990's when we introduced the Battle Mistress.

I'm locking this down before it turns into a time machine and takes us all back to 1998!

Let's Drink!

Jerry


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